purerx7

iTrader: (61)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mazda...QQcmdZViewItem

Anyone have one of these? It usually takes me 3 to 4 times before the car will start, hopefully this will help. The fd is going to see Cam in about a month, i am going to ask him about it (ill try to get one for free considering the amount of money i have spent their) and some other growing concerns i have about the rebuild he did for me.

On a completely opposite side note, one that doesnt deserve its own thread. I am swapping out a 93 cali ecu with a non 93 cali ecu. From searching the forums, all i need to do is disconnect the negative battery, correct? Do i need to hold the brake down for 15 secs or is their a reset on the ecu before i start the car with the new ecu?

thanks
B

rossc

WOW. $45 + shipping for a relay, 4 short wires, and some connectors.

He better give it to you for free, or else I would be pretty pissed. That's like $3 worth of supplies and 10mins worth of work.

Eggie

Because the new ECU has been disconnected for some time, it is reset. The only reason to hold the brake is to be sure that the power is dead. But if in doubt, why not hold the pedal? We're talking about a 15-second job.

silverflash2

iTrader: (2)

I like it, and want to do it, but don't want to buy it for that. Hopefully someone can post DIY. What relay sould be used?

rossc

There's a DIY right there on the ebay page. The wiring diagram is shown behind the relay. It's just a standard automotive SPST relay.

DMoneyRX-7

iTrader: (2)

well does this little contraption actually work? Has anyone bought one and seen any change in starting response? Is this intended for systems that have trouble starting...or can a good system use it to get an even better/stronger start.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

I've been tempted to build one for my car. I've tried MANY things to fix the "click-click-start" - new/rebuilt/swapped starters, cleaned all the terminals up, cleaned the ignition switch, REPLACED the ignition switch with a brand new one, replaced the security system starter interrupt relay with a NEW one, still does it.

IMHO, I think the problem in my case is wiring - the wire itself is not so good, giving a voltage drop, and the small wire to the starter isn't getting enough voltage to kick in the solenoid. If this is the case, the "starter booster" will do the trick. The relay will need much less amperage to close than the starter solenoid.

If you want to DIY, check this out -

http://www.wiringproducts.com/index1.html

Get a 40 amp relay (that should be plenty) and a relay socket. Then, get some crimp-on spade terminals and eyelet connectors from the parts store and follow Pettit's diagram.

You might be able to find a relay socket locally, but they're typically hard to find at parts stores. You can crimp on spade connectors, but that really won't do as well as the proper socket.

Dale

purerx7

iTrader: (61)

My car is going to pettit this weekend for some other minor things, will see what he says.

Monkman33

iTrader: (28)

Relay sockets are just a plastic piece that holds crimp on spades.

The thing about the starter is this: all the signal wire is doing is triggering a solenoid. the real power to the starter is actually running through the large gauge power wire. So this would only help if your wiring is faulty. If your solenoid signal wires are healthy, then you don't need it.

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

However, looking at the circuit diagram (pg. Z-24 of the 1993 Wiring Diagram manual) you can see that a 40 amp circuit goes through the ignition switch and the relay and the clutch interlock switch to feed the starter solenoid. The activate signal to the solenoid carries much lower current (and has a 15amp fuse).

I had the dreaded click-click-click-start problem when I bought my car and discovered that the savages who had installed an aftermarket alarm on the car had replaced a section on this wire with a smaller gauge wire. After I replaced this wire with the original gauge the problem disappeared completely.

My theory on this is that after time the combined resistances of the various connections between the ignition switch, the starter relay, and clutch interlock switch eventually become high enough to reduce the current delivered to the starter solenoid.

Monkman33

iTrader: (28)

You are correct that there is a definite high current signal needed. Most decently sized solenoids do require a good amount of amperage. Also, due to the starter motor eating up most of the available current from the battery, it is necessary to have a low resistance circuit with a high amperage capability to maintain the signal required by the solenoid.

I have seen many problems arise when there is enough current to activate the solenoid on its own when the main power is disconnected. But when the power to the starter is hooked up, the solenoid turns on just long enough to draw the power away from the solenoid... turning it off, which in turns doesn't turn the starter... which then clicks on the solenoid... only to repeat over and over again. Very similar to the dead battery clicking sound. Since that is all that is happening when a battery is low.

I hope what I just typed makes sense.

Basically, (and I know that of all people to need a lesson in electronics, it is not you moconnor ) Your electrical system needs to have the current capacity to run the starter and not starve the solenoid. As soon as the solenoid is starved for power it will close the circuit to the starter... but once said circuit is closed, there is enough power to power the solenoid again... wash, rinse, repeat.

edit - and as a side note, the 40amp fuse the runs through the ignition switch is actually powering all of the ignition power circuits. hence why it divides out and the starter solenoid then receives a 15a fuse after the hierarchal breakdown.

You probably already know this, but I will post it for other members:
BAT (or constant power) - will always supply connected items (circuits) with power, as long as your battery is hooked up.
---Items such as radio memory (presets, clock, etc. only) trip memory, ecus bcms will fall into this category
ACC - Will supply power to connected items (circuits) only when the key is on, but not when in "starting" mode (ie when you are cranking your engine)
---Items such as lighting (interior and exterior), radio, HVAC will fall into this category.
IGN - will supply power to connected items (circuits) only when the key is on, and will continue to supply power even when cranking.
---starter solenoid, coils, fuel pump, ignition, ecu will fall into this category.

This very reason is why there is a differentiation between acc power to certain circuits and ign power.... and of course constant power to certain items.

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

I never thought of the 'competing circuits' angle.

I'm guessing that the Pettit relay kit takes the 40 amp power signal directly from the battery and feeds the output of its solenoid directly to the starter solenoid, effectively bypassing the clutch interlock and the ignition switch module. Do they have installation instructions anywhere?

Monkman33

iTrader: (28)

Another common problem I just though of is the clutch switch. If that is worn or about to fail (usually a deteriorated spring) then it won't make strong contact.

Adam C found that many common ball point pens use the same spring as the clutch switch. Don't be afraid to take it apart. It is a very simple piece of hardware.

Monkman33

iTrader: (28)

This would be the only way it makes any sense. Good point.

They probably use the relay trigger (which requires amperage in the milliamp range) to connect a high current wire that probably connects to the smae place as the large wire feeding the starter. This would actually be the most ideal setup to begin with. You would retain all of the safety and function of the clutch switch and ignition circuits... but have only a 1 foot (or less) run of wire from starter connection point to relay, to starter solenoid.

If I had to guess, I would say that pin 85 would go to the clutch switch signal wire, pin 86 to ground, pin 30 to the large gauge connection point on the alt, and pin 87 to the starter solenoid. Locating the relay as close as possible would allow for ideal current capacity.

It's funny to think about though... a relay to trigger the signal to the solenoid, to trigger the starter... A little on the round-a-bout method, but at the same time a much more direct current flow.

Monkman33

iTrader: (28)

See my above post. Your method still runs high current through the clutch switch (assuming it is merely an interposing switch and not controlling a relay). If it is controlling a relay, then you would have to run your wire to that point. However, Just using a relay in the engine bay would net you better results...

Of course all of this is assuming one thing: clutch switch isn't faulty in any way.

purerx7

iTrader: (61)

***UPDATE***

I have had a couple of days to drive the fd and see how this kit worked. I havent had ANY problems what-so-ever, starts on the first try every time. Before it would take 3 or 4 sometimes more to get it to crank. Cam said it was a build up of voltage drops. Install time was less then 20 minutes.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Hmmmm interesting! So you went with the Pettit kit? Isn't it the same as the ebay kit?

purerx7

iTrader: (61)

yep same one, that is pettit racing selling under a different name.

Monkman33

iTrader: (28)

This exactly what we were saying. You are bypassing the need for a full signal to go through the numerous devices between ignition and starter solenoid.

Glad it worked for you!