ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

If you want to go there, I'll have to take Electromotive Tec 3, hands down.....

Improved FD

but you can tune the car fat for changes in ambient conditions, instead of being on the hairy edge of death all the time like I felt I was with the Pettit...the first time I popped my engine I was not getting creep or spike, just running closer to 14 psi during multiple full throttle runs on a cold night

what AFRs have you seen at full load (max rpm) with the Pettit ECU, with these guys making 350 hp?

G's 3rd Gen

iTrader: (11)

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Mike (Red-Rx7) posted some of info in the link I provided earlier:

https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...0&postcount=10

Tuning the car "rich" isn't ideal either. If you are getting boost spikes, fix it. Don't bandaid it by tuning the car rich as that's not fixing the problem.

Once again YZF, you are arguing a different point than what I'm saying. I'm not saying the PFC is useless, but it's not bulletproof either. If you are trying to keep the car safe from boost spikes, you fix the boost control; not ram more fuel into the car.

Once you program the PFC, it's running a map, just like a rechipped ECU. Anything that causes the boost or other operating parameters to go "outside" what the map is tuned for can cause detonation (thus possibly damaging the engine).

Someone simply saying "I want to switch to the PFC to make my engine last longer" is kind of pointless. First off, unless they have a programmable ECU already, they most likely have NO idea what A/F's they are running in the first place. They may end up getting a PFC and running much leaner than they were before and not necessarily increasing their engine's reliability.

Improved FD

and I never said tuning with the PFC will make your engine "bulletproof"....as I previously indicated, if you want to make 330-350 hp, and can be content with that, on the stock turbos, the Pettit is fine

380 to 400 is my new goal, and I believe it can be done reliably

Rxmfn7

iTrader: (4)

I completely agree with you Mahjic. I am currently running a Pettit ECU, at my high boost setting of 14psi, the car runs like a raped ape. I will eventually switch to a PFC if I upgrade the turbos, but for now Im plenty happy with the Pettit. I believe for stock turbos and most bolt-ons, the Pettit cant be beat.

Improved FD

14 psi is definitely pushing it on the Pettit....you could easily pop on a cold night unless you run race gas, I got that from Jeff at Pettit, not my opinion, and if proved true in my case

anyway, good luck....my car ran like a raped ape, too....until it popped

quicksilver_rx7

Hell, just switch to a MAF system and be done with all the arguing.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Once again, you have the same situation if you are tuned to 14 PSI on a PFC. No ECU will protect you from unforseen conditions. The safety net that you say the PFC gives you is an illusion. It's the components, not the ECU. The same things that can pop a motor on a Pettit ECU are the same things that can pop a motor with a PFC given the same components.

I'll say this: In about the past year, there have been 4 blown engines in my my area. 3 with the PFC, 1 with the Pettit which was me (we have about 4-5 people running around using the Pettit ECU's in this area).

The ECU can only do so much, it's the components around it that make or break the engine. Can you run the car rich for "protection"? Sure, however too much fuel washes away the oil and can cause more wear on the engine internals. Using a "rich" condition to protect you from "cold nights" is not necessarily a good thing as I mentioned before.

It's better to fix the real problem, rather than offer bad bandaids.

coolvette

my m2 ecu works great,and combined with all my mods the car is fast enough for me.I dont have any real data but it seems that i read about more blown motors with a pfc.Maybe more people are running pfc's than chipped ecu's.

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

fear and loathing in an FD

audiobot7

Im w/ Mahjik on this one

SlingShotRX7

MAF systems aren't as great as you think, actually they are PITA.
MAFS are easily contaminated and are a wearable item.
Many people are taking out the MAF systems and using
MAP systems instead.

Ironic thing is.. the FD system in hindsight was a decade before its time.

Improved FD

true, which is why I will never drive one of these cars again without a wideband gauge...no guarantee of anything, but it might give you that extra second of warning that could save your engine

the PFC is still relatively new, and there alot of noobs/shade tree tuners out there who do not take the time to do the research and tune the car properly....the Pettit, of course, is mindless

using that argument, you would never run a Pettit ECU because it tends to run incredibly rich unless you have every possible bolt-on and a ported engine...and even then, I would like to see typical AFRs across the rpm band

ironic statement, because that's really all the Pettit is, a "band aid" for people who don't want to invest the time and money into tuning the car

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

Whoa! Its definitely not a band-aid. Its just a static computer. The power FC is dynamic. The pettit ecu is a great piece. great great great. It just all depends on what youre trying to do. mild setup, go pettit. wilder, go pfc.

s-thetikz

iTrader: (1)

i have the pettit ecu, and I've been told that getting a standalone (aka PFC) is the only way to get rid of my 4k RPM hesitation as of right now. All ground lines have been replaced (and other mods that supposedly help with the 4k rpm hesitation) and none have worked. Can someone please verify if the PFC would get rid of the hesitation? Thanks.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

What you are missing is that a MAP system by definition is "static". Once you have your map programmed, it is not dynamic (i.e. it is NOT constantly changing).

Now, the PFC allows you to alter that MAP, but that does not change "while driving". So, a boost spike is still dangerous to a PFC as it is to a non-programmable one.

Yes and no. You can program out your hesitation with a PFC, but that is not fixing the hesitation. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't have the hesitation without the PFC, there is another problem.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

That is one way to look at it.

Or you can look at it as people wanting to spend the money on a MAP that has been defined and tested by someone/or some place with more experience/knowledge than they have themselves.

I would imagine that you would have a different view point if Steve Kan was selling pre-defined MAPs.....

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

I dont mean to argue over maps. You can reprogram your pfc as you choose. Thats what I mean by dynamic. With the pettit you gotta ship it and wait and blah blah.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

With the Pettit, there is no shipping/reprogramming or anything. There is only one MAP.

This is kind of the problem with the forum right now. There is a LOT of miss-information about things that can kill or save a motor. I'm not telling you get skip your purchase of getting a PFC. What I'm saying is that getting a PFC is not going to "automatically extend your engine's life" if that's your reasoning behind getting one.

DaiOni

The PFC can do everything the petit does. It can also be retuned. With the commander (which is bundled in 'free' now), it has a host of monitoring capabilities.

So we're only talking about a price issue, right?

Improved FD

I sold my Pettit used for $450 and picked up a new PowerFC on EBay for $800....not bad the increased processing speed is a nice bonus

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

grrrrrrrrrrr. I dont expect the pfc alone to save my engine. But, I am not going to use the stock fuel system. Thats why I need the pfc. Thats how the pfc is gonna save me. I'm gonna be running about a bar and thats at the limit of the stock fuel system hence the danger. The fuel system isnt even my beef. Its the damn turbos with the spike and creep. Im keeping the stock turbos because I want a stock car so I'm attempting to keep them under control with exhaust restriction and the fuel system and the pfc and a decent boost controller. And I remain under the beliefe that the steps I am taking are going to increase my engine's life expectancy.

my bad on the reprogramming.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Did you add in the cost for the wideband and the tuning? As you said before, people are idiots if they don't have those two so those must be including in your PFC pricing as well.


So this is not what you said?



Had you said this in the first place:

that's an entirely different reason.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Price really had nothing to do with the discussion (at least my discussion).