for people running evans coolant.... temps
07-25-04, 09:25 PM
#51
good post art...
>>and open thermostat(cut out the guts and blocked off the w/p bypass hole.)
can someone explain this to me more, why this helps drop temps? isnt it open already by the time ur up at those temps? or is it only about flow, havin git 'gutted' allows coolant to flow better?
>>and open thermostat(cut out the guts and blocked off the w/p bypass hole.)
can someone explain this to me more, why this helps drop temps? isnt it open already by the time ur up at those temps? or is it only about flow, havin git 'gutted' allows coolant to flow better?
07-25-04, 09:49 PM
#52
built my own engine
Originally Posted by Lunar7
Rob at Pineapple racing told me that if you don't feel the engine loosing power as coolant temps rise then the evans is effectively controlling the metal temperatures in your engine.
It may be BS, but I really don't feel any loss in engine power as my engine heats up (to 250) now that I am running evans.
That is perhaps what impressed me the most.
My car used to feel like a true dog in hot (100 deg)weather when I ran regular coolant.
It may be BS, but I really don't feel any loss in engine power as my engine heats up (to 250) now that I am running evans.
That is perhaps what impressed me the most.
My car used to feel like a true dog in hot (100 deg)weather when I ran regular coolant.
heh, yeah....if we're stuck in the 80's with carb'd motors, that may hold an once of truth, however, most properly tuned ECU's (including the oh so conservative stock ECU) will dump lots of fuel and retard ignition like crazy in these temperature ranges, i think it would almost be appropriate to "tune" for evans NPG if you planned on running sustained high temperatures
if your butt dyno is going to be the decision maker in whether or not you should lay off the throttle while your temp gauge is pegged out, you need to reconsider your options
07-25-04, 10:51 PM
#53
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Originally Posted by damian
good post art...
>>and open thermostat(cut out the guts and blocked off the w/p bypass hole.)
can someone explain this to me more, why this helps drop temps? isnt it open already by the time ur up at those temps? or is it only about flow, havin git 'gutted' allows coolant to flow better?
>>and open thermostat(cut out the guts and blocked off the w/p bypass hole.)
can someone explain this to me more, why this helps drop temps? isnt it open already by the time ur up at those temps? or is it only about flow, havin git 'gutted' allows coolant to flow better?
this is from Mazdaspeeds website...the FAQ portion
http://www.mazdamotorsports.com/weba...ubject=cooling
Water Pump/Thermostat
If you are using a stock (cast-iron) water pump, we recommend "gutting" the stock thermostat, leaving just the thermostat casing. Because some "restriction" is helpful, generally removing the thermostat is not as effective as using a gutted thermostat or restrictor. It is also important to plug the thermostat housing's water bypass. This can be done very easily by tapping the hole (1/2" pipe tap) and installing a plug
07-25-04, 10:57 PM
#56
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by damian
>So how much is this Evans NPG+ anyway?
go to the link i posted on where i putchased it (a few posts up) and you can see, it depends on the amount you get - $25 a gal, $22.50 4 or more gal
it may not look 'relativly' cheap, but you never really have to change it and compared to an engine going cuz of a hot spot, ..its REALY cheap!!!
go to the link i posted on where i putchased it (a few posts up) and you can see, it depends on the amount you get - $25 a gal, $22.50 4 or more gal
it may not look 'relativly' cheap, but you never really have to change it and compared to an engine going cuz of a hot spot, ..its REALY cheap!!!
07-25-04, 10:58 PM
#57
Originally Posted by 7racer
Damian...
this is from Mazdaspeeds website...the FAQ portion
http://www.mazdamotorsports.com/weba...ubject=cooling
Water Pump/Thermostat
If you are using a stock (cast-iron) water pump, we recommend "gutting" the stock thermostat, leaving just the thermostat casing. Because some "restriction" is helpful, generally removing the thermostat is not as effective as using a gutted thermostat or restrictor. It is also important to plug the thermostat housing's water bypass. This can be done very easily by tapping the hole (1/2" pipe tap) and installing a plug
this is from Mazdaspeeds website...the FAQ portion
http://www.mazdamotorsports.com/weba...ubject=cooling
Water Pump/Thermostat
If you are using a stock (cast-iron) water pump, we recommend "gutting" the stock thermostat, leaving just the thermostat casing. Because some "restriction" is helpful, generally removing the thermostat is not as effective as using a gutted thermostat or restrictor. It is also important to plug the thermostat housing's water bypass. This can be done very easily by tapping the hole (1/2" pipe tap) and installing a plug
07-25-04, 11:06 PM
#59
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by RTS3GEN
Ambient track temps Heartland Park Topeka 102 deg. F, Evans coolant at 12psi was 127 deg C(260.2 F). I have a pettit unlimited ecu, and the car ran perfect for full 30 minute instructor sessions all day long.(melted both heat tabs on housings).... That was 4 years ago and 27,000 miles ago. I no longer run evans npg(the temps got to me) but I fully support every ounce of the stuff. Keeping the engine a constant temp albeit higher, is much safer for longevity than is a lower avg. temp with hot spots hitting 500 or 600 deg. F. I now run regular antifreeze at a ratio of about 20%, distilled water 60% and Pro-Blend's Stops overheating mix. My track temps now are 230deg. F at 13psi at 100degree ambient. I can run full open at 10/10ths for full 20-30 minutes(30 minutes is pushing it though, I may have to do a cool down or two on the 30 minute sessions) and I run a cylinder head temp gauge in the rear housing hole that a knock sensor would fit in, metal temps are a cool 255 degrees or so. BTW, I also run a front mount Apexi intercooler and stock twins..... Vented hood helps tremendously as does a 16psi cap, and open thermostat(cut out the guts and blocked off the w/p bypass hole.)
FWIW:
Art
FWIW:
Art
07-25-04, 11:34 PM
#60
a few random comments on ur last post sleepR1:
>>thinking my luck ran out, and a hot spot formed in the front rotor housing, and pre-ignited the combustion mixture, leading to a chipped front rotor apex seal.
1) that may have been the case, I just want to add somthing, keep in mind I have no idea what im talking about :-) the hot spots may have caused a messed up pre-ignition that lead to a messed up seal, however, in the fore front of my mind it is not why i want to stop hots spots, i want to eliminate hot spots because to my understanding hot spots is what kills the housing seals (not rotor seals, im talking housing water seals), a localized hot spot causes the metal to expand uneavenly, slightly warping the housings, and possibly exposing and/or compromising the water seals to the point of failure.... that = engine rebuild. thus, no localized hotspots that are caused by boiling coolant (as evans seems to eliminate wiht its rediculous high boiling point) means the engine can run hotter safer and even basically 'overheat' without actually damaging the water seals, obvisouly there is a limit here...but in a normal coolant situation, even a moment of boiling coolant in a bad localized hotspot can cause 'engine rebuild' level damage.
>>With Evans, did your engine temps ever stabilize, at say, 130 C (266 F) for an entire session?
2) also, on the temps you guys are talking about... i run high temps that peopl freak out about, and im only in the 110-115 range and dont freak about it.... but dam, 120-130 is kinda out of control, like other changes need to be made, for example ducting enhansements (if a larger radiator already has been done), i definelty do not want to see the other side of 120 C but even with wack ducting i dont think my car has gone over 110-115 C in 90-100 F degree track days, 20 min sessions all out. the funny thing is that theoretically you could run at 130 C and the engine would be fine since you are still far below the boiling point of evans, ... however at that point the high temp may have other negative side affects, like crazy oil temp, or whatever.
I'll try to log data in my next events and post the temp data. I always bring the laptop, just end up having to much fun fartin around and taking passengers around, and i forget to hook it up and log data.
>>thinking my luck ran out, and a hot spot formed in the front rotor housing, and pre-ignited the combustion mixture, leading to a chipped front rotor apex seal.
1) that may have been the case, I just want to add somthing, keep in mind I have no idea what im talking about :-) the hot spots may have caused a messed up pre-ignition that lead to a messed up seal, however, in the fore front of my mind it is not why i want to stop hots spots, i want to eliminate hot spots because to my understanding hot spots is what kills the housing seals (not rotor seals, im talking housing water seals), a localized hot spot causes the metal to expand uneavenly, slightly warping the housings, and possibly exposing and/or compromising the water seals to the point of failure.... that = engine rebuild. thus, no localized hotspots that are caused by boiling coolant (as evans seems to eliminate wiht its rediculous high boiling point) means the engine can run hotter safer and even basically 'overheat' without actually damaging the water seals, obvisouly there is a limit here...but in a normal coolant situation, even a moment of boiling coolant in a bad localized hotspot can cause 'engine rebuild' level damage.
>>With Evans, did your engine temps ever stabilize, at say, 130 C (266 F) for an entire session?
2) also, on the temps you guys are talking about... i run high temps that peopl freak out about, and im only in the 110-115 range and dont freak about it.... but dam, 120-130 is kinda out of control, like other changes need to be made, for example ducting enhansements (if a larger radiator already has been done), i definelty do not want to see the other side of 120 C but even with wack ducting i dont think my car has gone over 110-115 C in 90-100 F degree track days, 20 min sessions all out. the funny thing is that theoretically you could run at 130 C and the engine would be fine since you are still far below the boiling point of evans, ... however at that point the high temp may have other negative side affects, like crazy oil temp, or whatever.
I'll try to log data in my next events and post the temp data. I always bring the laptop, just end up having to much fun fartin around and taking passengers around, and i forget to hook it up and log data.
07-26-04, 06:43 AM
#61
Lives on the Forum
damian, Art and I have FMIC/Rad setups. Art's is an Apexi GT, and mine is a GReddy 2-row FMIC. We're trading slightly hotter engine temps for cooler air intake temps (my AIT peak is 50 C on a hot day). Art says his temp was 265 F (129 C) with Evans on hot days. Personally I have not seen hotter than 121 C with conventional coolant and GReddy FMIC/Koyo rad. Your track car is very well prepared, and has a conventional SMIC setup, IIRC, which usually runs cooler, but with slightly higher air intake temps. I look forward to your datalogs. BTW I run Mobil 1 15W50, boiling point of 450 F, so the Evans NPG+ will boil (375 F) before the Mobil 1 15W50 will! I'm stuck with FMIC/Koyo/J-spec seq twins for awhile, so I have to figure out how to make this setup work for open tracking on hot days. I'm hoping Evans is the answer with my new larger ported motor!!??
Last edited by SleepR1; 07-26-04 at 06:53 AM.
07-26-04, 10:37 AM
#62
ahh ok, i can see why the higher collant temps are there from the fmic setup.
how is the ducting to the radiator on you car? have you done any 'extra' stuff to close any gaps and/or direct air better?
I'll try to take oil temps logs too, I did some nice ducting on teh oil coolers to the ms gtc nose, so my oil temps stay pretty low.
speaking of noses, do you and art also have stock noses?
how is the ducting to the radiator on you car? have you done any 'extra' stuff to close any gaps and/or direct air better?
I'll try to take oil temps logs too, I did some nice ducting on teh oil coolers to the ms gtc nose, so my oil temps stay pretty low.
speaking of noses, do you and art also have stock noses?
07-26-04, 11:33 AM
#63
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by damian
ahh ok, i can see why the higher collant temps are there from the fmic setup.
how is the ducting to the radiator on you car? have you done any 'extra' stuff to close any gaps and/or direct air better?
I'll try to take oil temps logs too, I did some nice ducting on teh oil coolers to the ms gtc nose, so my oil temps stay pretty low.
speaking of noses, do you and art also have stock noses?
how is the ducting to the radiator on you car? have you done any 'extra' stuff to close any gaps and/or direct air better?
I'll try to take oil temps logs too, I did some nice ducting on teh oil coolers to the ms gtc nose, so my oil temps stay pretty low.
speaking of noses, do you and art also have stock noses?
I ordered 4 gallons of Evans NPG+, thanks for the links!
BTW, I almost went with the NPG-R, but didn't want to make coolant changes every other year. NPG-R's 400 F boiling point, thinner viscosity, and better heat transfer properties weren't worth the hassle and expense compared with the lifetime NPG+.
Last edited by SleepR1; 07-26-04 at 11:37 AM.
07-26-04, 12:11 PM
#64
good deal, i hope the evans hepls your cooling situation, im sure my gtc nose is helping me with temps too, the radiator and oil cooler holes are much bigger than the stock nose.
did you ever see my ducting threads (before i got the track car)?
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hlight=ducting
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hlight=ducting
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hlight=ducting
did you ever see my ducting threads (before i got the track car)?
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hlight=ducting
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hlight=ducting
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hlight=ducting
07-26-04, 01:04 PM
#65
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by damian
good deal, i hope the evans hepls your cooling situation, im sure my gtc nose is helping me with temps too, the radiator and oil cooler holes are much bigger than the stock nose.
did you ever see my ducting threads (before i got the track car)?
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hlight=ducting
did you ever see my ducting threads (before i got the track car)?
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hlight=ducting
I'm $3000 deep into an engine rebuild right now, so $90 for 4 gallons of Evans is a reasonable expense for engine temp stabilization.
Last edited by SleepR1; 07-26-04 at 01:12 PM.
07-26-04, 01:23 PM
#67
>>Wow, damian, you've gone way beyond any effort I'd embark on for ducting.
hehehe :-) you should see what im doin with the track car now... LOL a post will be coming soon ;-)
>>Damain, would you recommend running evans on a compeltely stock car? Just for it to last longer? And Minimize localized boiling??
yep, I run evans in my street car and even if I never tracked it before, I would still run evans in it for the other protection it provides and the fact that I can run zero pressure, now all the rad hoses are not under pressure and last longer and are less likely to crack/split/pop and leak. :-)
hehehe :-) you should see what im doin with the track car now... LOL a post will be coming soon ;-)
>>Damain, would you recommend running evans on a compeltely stock car? Just for it to last longer? And Minimize localized boiling??
yep, I run evans in my street car and even if I never tracked it before, I would still run evans in it for the other protection it provides and the fact that I can run zero pressure, now all the rad hoses are not under pressure and last longer and are less likely to crack/split/pop and leak. :-)
07-26-04, 01:55 PM
#68
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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Ok I just checked the site but there are different types. Is there a FAQ or something or what do you recommend for a non- modded Rx7. May receive some bolt on later. BTW can I reuse it?? Lets say in the future I want to replace the radiator. At 22$ a gallon, could I try to empty the system and reuse it again later? Thanks! Damain.
07-26-04, 02:01 PM
#69
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by Fatman0203
Ok I just checked the site but there are different types. Is there a FAQ or something or what do you recommend for a non- modded Rx7. May receive some bolt on later. BTW can I reuse it?? Lets say in the future I want to replace the radiator. At 22$ a gallon, could I try to empty the system and reuse it again later? Thanks! Damain.
07-26-04, 02:18 PM
#72
Originally Posted by Fatman0203
Ok I just checked the site but there are different types. Is there a FAQ or something or what do you recommend for a non- modded Rx7. May receive some bolt on later. BTW can I reuse it?? Lets say in the future I want to replace the radiator. At 22$ a gallon, could I try to empty the system and reuse it again later? Thanks! Damain.
- yes you can reuse it if you dont contaminate it when you save it
- ngp+ is what i would get but ask some others to see if they chime in reasons for gettign a different kind
07-13-07, 08:37 PM
#75
Bringing this back.
I've been running Evans for the last 14K (3 years) on a Malloy Reman with an auxiliary electric water pump between the outlet on the block and the heater line.
Car has been running great. However, my gauge has been rising toward the upper white line under heavy boost even though my PFC doesn't rise above 105C and ambient air temp of 85F. Off-boost, the gauge drops immediately to the midzone
QUESTION: ********Has anyone running Evans NPG+ seen this: your dash temp gauge rising under boost but immediately dropping off boost yet your PFC doesn't budge from 104-106C?********
I've been running Evans for the last 14K (3 years) on a Malloy Reman with an auxiliary electric water pump between the outlet on the block and the heater line.
Car has been running great. However, my gauge has been rising toward the upper white line under heavy boost even though my PFC doesn't rise above 105C and ambient air temp of 85F. Off-boost, the gauge drops immediately to the midzone
QUESTION: ********Has anyone running Evans NPG+ seen this: your dash temp gauge rising under boost but immediately dropping off boost yet your PFC doesn't budge from 104-106C?********