tzbfwt

iTrader: (1)

OK - I've searched for an hour and didn't find exactly what I was looking for - so I'm going to post this both for useful input from the Gurus and to help anyone else faced with a Texas (or similar) emissions test.

FDs (in certain counties) - Austin, El Paso, Houston, DFW are required to pass a two speed idle emissions test. Some areas have to do the roller dyno test - but not me (in Austin)

Test Step 1: 2200-2800 RPM (I assume test monkey sits in the car and hits the gas to rev it somewhere in this range)
Test Step 2: 350-1200 RPM (ie wherever your car idle speed is)

Test standards - CO 1.2%, HC 220PPM - NOx does not appear to be tested.

So - first does anyone know what the actual numbers/procedures are - are these correct?

My car - just installed mazda reman (stock). downpipe, stock cat with unknown but probably at least 50K miles. Air pump removed. M2 medium IC. Stock twins in sequential mode. EGR, AWS, Air pump controller - all removed with block off plates. M2 dual K&N filter airbox. Cat back exhaust - single tip 4 inch. Walbro fuel pump - I've got expected fuel pressure at idle (28-32 psi)

ECUs: choices are stock 93 or 94, OR a PFC with commander - I installed the PFC and had a high idle, so I removed it - then installed the stock ECU and it idles at about 1000 RPM. I've since learned that the I probably needed to do the purple AC wire mod with the PFC and that would have fixed my idle probs.

Right now (with stock ECU) it drives well and seems to boost well - I've only taken it to about 4PSI to a few short bursts because of the fresh motor. At idle - it runs rich and misfires (pop pops) semi-regularly. The plugs are new but have been removed numerous times for flooding issues when I was trying to get the car started - so they've seen the propane torch drying technique a few times. With no airpump and a stock ECU I expect it to be rich - it does not pass the eye watering technique - so I don't think it will pass the low speed idle test. New plugs will be ordered today - wires seem OK.

I am a complete rookie when it comes to PFC tuning - the box has a tune from a non-sequential twin car - with 550/1300 injectors - I changed that back to 850s for my stock car and enabled the 02 feedback control - the O2 did not toggle at idle - it stayed rich at .9 volt. I don't think I will pass with the PFC with the current tune. Can anyone tell me which cells to change (and what values to use) to be leaner at the two test points above? I have a datalogit but I've never even loaded the software - so that will be a learning process too.

I would really just like to pass with the stock ECU - I am willing to try a gallon of alcohol in a 1/4 tank if that will get me by... I really don't want to put the airpump and all that control crap back on just to pass with the stock ECU. I would have to go back to the stock IC as well - the M2 pipes don't work...

THOUGHTFUL, INTELLIGENT input appreciated.

Thanks

Jim

PS - IT IS VERY EASY TO HAVE YOUR FUEL TEMP AND WATER TEMP connectors swapped - your car will run VERY rich if you screw this up. Thanks to whoever posted that tip - I needed my commander to figure that one out... Just the latest in my long list of engine swap screw ups...

dhays

iTrader: (1)

I don't think you will ever pass without the air pump installed and working. I could be wrong however.

Cgotto6

iTrader: (8)

yea stock cats need the airpump. They will clog very quickly with out one.

tzbfwt

iTrader: (1)

I would really like some input from someone who has passed (or attempted to pass) without an air pump BUT WITH A POWER FC.

Obviously - installing the PFC seems like a better idea than putting all the AIR pump stuff back on.

But... I would like to at least try to pass with the stock ECU and no AIR pump - using the alcohol trick and whatever else I can to pass - I don't think the Texas regs are too strict - it might be possible. Plus - when I sell the car (minus PFC of course), I'll know if the thing can pass without the AIR pump.

Really - I just need the quick and dirty method to get through so I can get this thing registered - then I can have time to play with the PFC and datalogit.

Thanks

Jim

dhays

iTrader: (1)

Jim, I don't think there is any way to pass the idle test without an airpump. The airpump provides the extra O2 needed to burn off the excess HCs in the cat. Without that extra O2, they will go out the tail pipe as well as clog your cat.

My HCs with a hi-flow cat and a working airpump never got better than 478 ppm at idle. My CO2% was never better than 3.46%. Granted, you have a stock cat but depending on how long it has been run without an airpump, it may be worthless anyway. Without an airpump, the cat simply isn't going to do enough.

You can certainly try, but be prepared to fail. I suggest that you try to adjust your idle so it is pretty high (maybe that PFC would be a good idea). The higher the idle, the more efficiently you should burn the fuel. Try the alcohol, and if you normally pre-mix, don't for the test.

Good luck.

Turbo II FC

iTrader: (14)

I have NOT PASSED without the airpump with my FD and Power FC. I HAVE PASSED WITH AIRPUMP and Power FC. So just put the airpump on, its that simple. Especially if you say you are a rookie at tuning with the Power FC.

cptpain

iTrader: (1)

they will do a VISUAL test as well. several of my friends who live in ATX have gotten a fix-it ticket for not having their air pump installed.

2 were fd's one was an FC

dhays

iTrader: (1)

The emissions testers in Texas must be pretty well informed. Most just look under the hood and shrug around here.

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

My experience in Austin is that they do sloppy visuals and I've always passed emissions as long as the sniff test passed.

I even ran an MR2 with NO cat and passed.

tzbfwt

iTrader: (1)

OK - my current plan after some research is to put the stock air pump back on, but... skip all the control valve crap - just run the air pump outlet direct to the cat -using the original stainless pipe / check valve - and some heater hose. Not running AIR to the exhaust manifold - but I don't think that will make a difference - the stock system only sends air to the exhaust manifold during a cold start - if I read the manual correctly. Since the O2 sensor doesn't do anything at idle anyway - I don't think the lack of exh manf air will skew the air fuel ratio.

This also means I will need to put the stock IC and pipes on as well - great...

The air pump will still be controlled by the stock ECU - so it should be "on" for RPMs less than 3200 RPM - and that will cover both low & high speed idle tests.

Also thinking about a gallon or two of E85 from the local pump to lean it out a bit.

Anybody use a small amount of E85 to pass emissions?

Jim

tzbfwt

iTrader: (1)

Put the AIR pump back on - per the post above, no Air control valve - just straight to the cat with the check valve and some heater hose.
New Plugs
3 gallons of E85 in a full tank of 93 Octane - at least some of this tank has gas that's 3-4 years old in it..
Got it nice and warm - then watched the Jiffy Lube guy let it sit for 20 minutes while he checked the lights, etc. BTW - they never popped the hood for a visual but one guy did look underneath for the main cat. I'm sure these guys were not smart enough to notice the pre-cat was gone.

Results:
High speed Low speed
STD Reading STD Reading
HC (PPM) 220 31 220 57
CO (%) 1.2 0.39 1.2 1.11
CO2 % 12.6 12.9
Dilution % >6 13.0 >6 14.0

I was much too close to failure on low speed CO - he had trouble getting my idle below 1200 - had to cramp the power steering. I haven't adjusted the idle bleed since I've installed the engine - the lowest my car idles is about 1000 RPM at best, and often it's at 1200/1300 while sitting at a light - AC off.

Of course this car has 106K on it - and the stock cat may be original... yikes. Having my first turbo rebuild puke a turbine wheel into it (along with a 1/2 quart of oil) probably didn't do it any favors either.

I really like having the air pump on - but I really want to put the PFC back on now and see if I can lean out the idle - the stock ECU just lets the 02 sensor go rich at idle (.9v). This seems wrong - all the GM stuff (pistons obviously) lets the 02 sensor toggle rich/lean at idle - can the rotary just not run that lean at idle?

Jim

White94RX

Man, I'm so glad I live in Alabama. No emissions, and no vehicle inspections, FTW!!!

habu2

Interesting, I thought Travis and Dallas Counties had the same emission laws. I just had my '93 FD tested last weekend, here are my #s - notice the Dallas limits are more stringent. They also tested O2 & NOx, I don't know if Travis doesn't test them or you just didn't list them.

High speed Low speed
STD Reading STD Reading
HC (PPM) 132 104 136 136
CO (%) 0.73 0.36 0.76 0.31
CO2 % 13.6 13.6
O2 % 1.4 1.4
NOx (ppm) 945 242 1045 279
Dilution % >6 13.96 >6 13.91

Look at my Low speed HC count - and you thought you were close to failing... :o

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

My travis country test listed them

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

Mine runs 17/1 AFR at idle. Set on the PFC. I'm not sure what the stock ECU allows for though.

cptpain

iTrader: (1)

if you want to make the trip, come down to killeen/ft hood next time anyone wants inspection done.... we dont have the sniffer test down here. just the bare minumum checks.

its about a 1hr drive from austin

tzbfwt

iTrader: (1)

Habu2 - did Dallas make your can run on the rollers? Mine was just an idle test - no rollers...

Let's see - my test did list CO2 and 02 %

They were
High Low
CO2% 12.6 12.9
O2% 3.2 2.0
NoX 0.0 0.0


I'm pretty sure they didn't measure NoX - I believe the rule is anything 95 or older, but less than 24 yrs old must meet the CO and HC limits above.

Zenofspeed - I believe your sticker was "purchased" wasn't it???

As far as going to Killeen - I'd love to - but I think you must test in the county in which you reside - which is Travis for me...

habu2

Yes, on rollers. get this - the guy couldn't figure out the engine (LS1 swap) so he disabled the RPM monitoring on the test rig - apparently that's legal. Ran the low speed in 2nd gear but that put the rpm below where the cam came in, hence the bad readings. The high speed test was supposed to be run in 3rd gear but the monkey couldn't hit 3rd ? so he left it in 2nd. He told me if the low speed had failed he would have re-run the test in 1st.

I got lucky.

Nat6c

iTrader: (1)

even if he we're to go to kileen, b/c his vehicle is registered in atx, he'd run atx emmisions. unless the vehicle is registered in kileen he's screwed. same thing happens to houstonians as for the 2 speed idle. in actually the 2spd idle is ONLY used on full time 4WD, Traction control that cannot be disabled. or inspection facilities that cannot for some reason use the rollers due to malfuntions in the roller system... or continous failure of the roller test due to gearing... overheating etc etc. the problem they have with visual testing is that most of them dont' know wtf they are looking at. when i took my class.... half of them didn't know what an airpump was... none the less the thermo whatcha call it the old carburators used as an (egr) with the funnel intake from the exhaust manifold. nor do they know where to look for the EGR. nox, co, and all the readins are state based not county based. only certain counties dont' require emmisinos, and only the 12.50( well used to be 12.5) safety if the population, or traffic isn't huge enough to affect. as for the rpm for the person with the ls1, it isn't illegal to bypass, but IS "frowned upon" b/c it helps force a specific load range at certain speed that the CARB/DOT Emmisions looks for.. you can bypass is it 1) can't get a radio rpm signal, and 2) can't get a signal from the plug wire clamp, being a rotary, he's not gonna get under the car for the clamp... and our ignition system is a bit of a pain to get off the frequency detector thingy.. unless you know how to set the adjustments properly.


hope you enjoyed tx emmission 101.

i used to be an inspector... by if you dont' do at least 1 every 30 days. you lose it and gotta take the 2day class againl... **** that... i'm lazy. ROFL. doign my own inspections FTMFW

Los

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

another option instead of putting the stock airpump on is using an electric air pump from an rx8 or vette. it can be wired up to the stock relays or just put on with a switch for the tests. I think the PFC would have allowed you to tune it leaner making it easier to pass. I know a couple people that have a map just for passing emissions. The other option is to befriend someone working at a shop that helps skew things in your favor.

dhays

iTrader: (1)

I've read in the NW regional, where folks have done just that to pass WA emission. They use the PFC to lower idle and lean it out a bit so they can pass the idle test. I'm looking at this as an option. I can get a waiver, but I have to spend $150 at a certified shop in "repairs" before I can get it. Since I failed and had to get a waiver, and it costs at least $300 to have the mechanic do diagnostic work on the system, I figure in about 8 years (testing every two years) I'll have paid for my PFC.

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

You don't even have to have dual maps or anything...

The emissions tests are at idle and low rpms (NO LOAD, NO BOOST)

It won't harm anything to have your only fuel map be lean during those conditions. I drive my car to the track getting 22.5mpg at 16-17 AFR highway cruising and the same AFR at idle. Then I hit the track and under boost, everything richens up to 11.5 AFR. One Map.

You have to get a full tune though, as you'd have to set the compensation maps to be sure it stays lean after the engine warms up and with various ambient temps. It takes a lot of tuning to get everything perfect.

To prep for an emissions test, drive the car until fully warm but DO NOT BOOST.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

i dont think my car will idle at between 16-17 afr. cruising is fine but idle doesnt like much above 14.

tzbfwt

iTrader: (1)

I go back to one of my original questions: WIth a PFC, can you make your FD lean enough at idle to toggle the O2 sensor rich/lean? In theory this should be right at 14.7 AFR.

Zenofspeed - if you are really 17:1 at idle, your O2 sensor should be pinned to the lean side - like 0.1 volt and staying there... Your PFC might say 17:1 but I'd have to see a wide band O2 readout to believe it - it should be misfiring like crazy if you are really that lean. You don't want a misfire because then your HC and CO start to increase...

I think you want 14.7 at idle - your cat works best there for HC and CO - and I would have guessed that the stock ECU runs there - but reading the shop manual it seems like the O2 sensor is expected to be 0.9v at idle - and only is expected to toggle rich/lean when you accel/decel (ie hit the gas from an idle condition). This seems like a "stupid" fuel control strategy to me - I know most piston engine run 14.7 at idle in "closed loop" - where the ECU adjusts the fuel to maintain 14.7 AFR

What am I missing here?

Jim

PS Habu2 - were your LS1 numbers with or without cats? That's one beauty of an LS1 swap - you only have to meet Rotary emission levels...

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

Most people that run the pfc and tune it don't use the stock o2 sensor they use a 5 volt wideband. And turn o2 sensor feedback off. And like with mine it can be programed to any afr to voltage that i want. Mine is 8 to 18 afr. During cruise my afr is 16.5 for fuel economy.