artguy

hey guys...

now that my car is tuned well enuff to run it through the gears I have an update for those of you who want to know about the m2's.

this is what i have experienced so far.

When I recieved the turbos I attempted to run them with the stock intercooler...not a bright idea...the m2 set flows so much and so quick that the stock IC acts like the Boston Strangler instead of doing what it was meant to do. I felt like I really had to get the motor revving to push boost through...they did spool up by 2800 rpms as promised but they felt a bit heavy even if the were quick to come on line. I figured it was the size of the wheels on them that caused this...NOPE. haha it was that junk little IC that was acting like a potato clogging my flow.

I put on the m2 large stock mount IC and that cured the problem...the turbos scream...they absolutely sing. the boost comes on very very fast and at the tap of the throttle. I ran another modded third gen running IC,intake,exhaust,non-seq,pettit ecu, 18 inch tires etc.. and would launch on him at will. Granted his car looks much much better than mine and is very well taken care of My power comes on so soon and strong that Im almost two cars up by the time Im pushing into second. His car pulled perty good once the turbos came on line but the lag from the non seq really cost him in the low rpms. I had the same prob back when I was running stock turbos with my streetport...lag and low end power loss due to the port was causing cars to get me good from the line. Not anymore.

Granted he did have a couple less mods (mainly the streetport) but I have smaller tires and we ran the same boost of fourteen lbs. I actually thought Id get beat since Im conservatively not running the full boost that the m2s were designed for.

I also ran a modified C5 over the weekend...same results...launched on him like mad because of the quick spoolup time...he had a good pull in third but still did not catch me.... the m2 set has a great top end and this really takes advantage of the streetport which was done by Rotary Reliability and Racing...went from a rolling start and had even better results.

I did finally get the oil line restrictor pill which stops the oil blow by caused by the ball bearing set needing less oil than the stockers.

the sound is a bit more zingy...zzzzzzzzsssing....as I can hear the ball bearings spin.

The m2 set really needs at least 13-15 lbs of boost to enjoy them. I plan on running 14-15 low and 18 on high (for the special occasions) once the car is fully and properly tuned. (m2 claims they are built to handle twenty lbs)

It's not big single territory but unless they are spraying Im very confident that Ill jump them off the line very very well. I dont like laggy turbos and drive mine in the stop and go traffic of LA on a daily basis. The m2 set is ideal for me.

as many of you read, I also had a hard time finding a tuner who had tuned for the m2 set on the power fc. Had xs actually "listened" to me then they would have tuned my ecu as specified...but the problem is that they have to create a new map for the m2 set and rather than do it right, (laziness I assume..cuz it sure wasnt miscommunication as I wrote down everything for them) they just gave me one of their junk maps for a diff car. this caused me huge detonation and a weekend of no sleep. I thought I blew my motor becuz of their inexperience in tuning of my ecu. They just did not know what to do with the m2s...though I did tell them what cfm they flow at and told them what power approx gains would be. however..it was not just the lack of experience with the m2s..they had my car setup all wrong (wrong PIM settin which caused it to smoke and shake...and had me set up for non seq for some reason). it was frusterating to say the least..as well as scary.

the solution was found in the advice of gmonson and spyfish who did a great job of communicating tuning advice and problem solving issues. I tuned the car myself..took it to rotary reliability and had Louis do a bit of adjustments and it is now running strong. I will be putting it on a wideband this next week or the weekend after and will look forward to running better boost numbers. Im not a tech by any means but patience and more patience helped get me thru some tuning issues.

If it were not for the guys on this forum (you know who you are) and especially spyfish and gmonson I would not have my car running as it is. everyone was very very helpful (except you know who). I want to give a double thanks to rotary reliability and racing as well as m2. Nick and Louis and the guys were of tremendous help and brett and brian at m2 came thru for me on many occasions.

thanks everyone!

Im very happy with my decision to go m2. The turbos feel incredibly light and very strong and the spoolup speed is fantastic. It is a blast to drive right now. I cant wait to tune it some more and finally boost the thing to the degree my car was built for.

Ill keep ya informed..


jason manley

alwan16

good to hear your car is running well now jason. i know how frustrating it is having an fd not running at 100%...most of us probably do. post your dyno plots when you are done tuning it so we can get a good idea of what power output is like compared to the stock twins.

racer rx

Yeah... I definitely know what is like not
to have your car run right. It's can drive anyone
nuts.

Artguy have you 1/4 miled the car yet?

I think I need new turbos next year...
Just wanted to know what your HP is ?,
I'm torn between the M2 and 99 spec's.

jc.

SanJoRX7

I'm really glad to see someone running the M2's and liking them. My stock turbos are going on 106k miles right now, and I'm thinking that around 120k i'll have to seriously think about new ones. I think based on your experience I'll probably consider the M2's as well as just the stock replacement (or 99).

Maybe when I'm in SoCal next we can hook up and you can wow me with your ride

Patrick

Johnny

I want to see a DYNO CHART...until then they are unproven..the mind well tell you funny things since you spent 3k on them

until then I am going single or 99spec...

someone has to doubt

artguy

hey jonny...run those jspecs and head on down to see my taillights. lol Ill prove it to you first hand! Its called the taillight dyno here in OC...you can be the dyno.

Ive had this car for almost three years and Ive driven on three different sets of stock turbos. The differences are noticible entirely.

Ill do a real dyno run as soon as the car is finished being tuned...possibly as early as the first.

i would have dyno tuned it sooner but xs moved and now I dont trust them. Now I have to tune it myself and then run it on the dyno to get the numbers.

j

Johnny

smoke me at sevenstock

I run a maincat still

I wish you luck..really I do. I just have heard some negative things about m2's turbos from very reliable sources...so I wish someone luck when they spend $3k on those babies...

rynberg

That's good to hear Artguy, I've been reading all your posts regarding the XS travesty. I'm glad you got your car running well. I've only had my FD 6 months and have had perfect boost the whole time, but I can imagine what it would be like to not be running 100% (or not even 50% in your case).

Good luck with the turbos, looking forward to your dyno and further tuning updates.

laujesse

iTrader: (19)

There are alot of cars over here running the 99's putting over 380hp down(with exhaust, intake and computer of course). You MIGHT make some one running the 99's look over and see your gas cap but I really doubt them ever seeing tail lights. Not tring to bust your ***** but it the truth, glad to hear it is running right. I'm with the mod that banned my posts.... Dyno... If you put up some thing under 400 you wont be making anyone running 99's properly see tail lights.

artguy

Id like to see those 99s at 380 rwhp (whats that seventeen lbs of boost...fifteen maybe on the best cars??)

the reason Id like to see is those turbos will cook by the end of their first month at boost levels like that. mmm..stinky!

regardless...If he wants to run me while he is in town for sevenstock we can video record it and post it on the web...hows that for dyno? lol

yeah..I want to get on the dyno...not til I wideband and fine tune...I no longer trust any of the pfc tuner shops down here in OC with my car...we know how many of those there are.


later

j

Johnny

ARTGUY :Hey man....I'm just joking about running you... damn didn't you see the My car is by no means that fast right now, but it looks good

It's nothing personal...it's just everyone with this set always has excuses for this and that when it comes to dyno numbers..really surprised M2 didn't have it done or why they choose not to show the numbers...just really curious since they might be in my hopefully mod list in the future.

JESSE :as for the comment/hint/ that I banned someone...that is BULLSHIT... Jesse I have no beef with you and have purchased things from you before.

spyfish007

I don't know what I would do with quicker spooling sequential turbos. I'm interested in seeing dyno sheets as well. I'd also like to find out about the secondary transition-ie does it spike, does it have a flat spot, etc, etc. I would definately look into tuning the PowerFC for the ball bearing turbos with the datalogit.

artguy

yeah..im getting help with the datalogit and a wideband as soon as I can get the bung welded on.

johnny...yeah..Im sure your car looks great...mine is much faster than it looks...and it definitely wont win a beauty contest..haha

but I would also like to point out again...any car running those numbers on stock twins will not last long...those twins are designed for stock boost...the m2 set is designed for up to twenty lbs...I ran 13lbs on stock turbos and they lasted three months of hard driving...oh they still boosted but when I took them apart they looked like roasted marshmallows. just because someone ran 380 with stock twins pushing like 17lbs of boost on 112 octane (Im assuming that was the case) does not mean they can drive it like that on the street.

its a matter of being able to run 16 lbs once...or 16lbs all day long.

I did not go non seq because I want to keep the quick spool up. Im sure non seq would kick hard but I realllly hate lag. Im more interested in response.

as far as dyno numbers...if I can run 365-375 hp on the low end and 385-405 (17-19lbs) on the occasional high end I will be extatic.

I may go motec as I dont think I can get it tuned as close as it should be with the pfc and the datalogit. I have someone lined up to tune it if I do go motec and he will do a fantastic job (there really isnt a better tuner for that car and that ecu). However...if the pfc and datalogit does a good job I may stay with it...as long as my friggen pfc induced idle loping probs mellow out.

regardless I want it all done and tuned soon..definitely before sevenstock.

Im going to post some 40-70 times so you can see what I mean.


j

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

Did I mention my car was dirty and that created alot of drag? Oh and my left sock was bigger than my right one and uhm my shoes were too big and the radio was on and a squirel jumped in front of me and my damn Greddy SMIC heat soaked and some Alien spaceship zapped my Pettit computer and damn, i'm selling a kidney!

laujesse

iTrader: (19)

I have yet to see a set of blown 99 280hp spec's. They are not even close to the same turbines on the 93-95's.

If your car is "turbo lagging" that is just means you are letting the clutch out too soon. Anything below 3500 is way to soon.

JOHNNY: I was just givin ya ****. I know it wasnt you man. Sorry if it came accross wrong.

WHOEVER BLOCKED MY USERNAME: I am not a business I am just a dude... I have several FD's and more parts for sale than the average man but I am not really a business. If we need to work something out that is fine but, I would at least have appreciated an email or something notifing me that there was a even a problem... I just went to log on one day and I got a message telling me to **** off, and I sat and watched as all of my posts slowly disappeared. You not even contacting me is total bs. It's been 4 days now. For those of you just tuning in my username used to be just laujesse.

KevinK2

Artguy.. any spec's on the ball bearing M2's? both wheels larger, a/r changes .. scroll contouring, trim changes, etc ??

Sequential is great for low end, but thermally tough on the turbine housings (cyclic temps at 2nd turbine) esp at high hp. Check out latest SCC mag pics of very cracked turbine hsgs.

SPOautos

Actually I ran 14psi of boost on the street for a year on the stock turbos and they looked great till a apex seal went threw them(due to **** XS PFC tuning). The problem is not the turbo design, its the crappy rebuild alot of shops do.

I'm not saying I could run 17-20psi like the M2 are supposedly built for but for the price I can buy over 4 sets of stock rebuilds.

Artman, if you dont mind me asking where did you buy your rebuilt twins that kept failing??? We need to make sure people dont keep buying them if they are built that crappy.

STEPHEN

BrianK

So you can run 17-19 lbs??? Have you done something with the engine internals to run that much boost? I thought you'd start having seal problems once you start getting above 14-16 lbs.

artguy

hey all..

brian: I did 3mm ceramics and as much other little stuff as I can (tied vacuum hoses etc...)

spo: turbo city farked my rebuilt set and PERFORMANCE TECHNIQUES can lick my tailpipe...their "warrantee" didnt do me any good..the shitty rebuild they did sounded like a dentist drill.

Id like to see someone run those jspecs ( which are actually smaller wheels I believe .50 mil vs.51 mil stock) at 17lbs for more than a few runs. The m2 set are .59 and look to be about twice the size of the stock wheels. they spin on contact..the stock wheels have to be turned...not touched to spin.

goracer...your car is gorgeous. you can keep the girl because you have a nicer looking machine. congrats!!

later

j

kwikrx7

Hey artguy, congrats on getting your car running better. I'm glad to see that your tuned enough to race people instead of running on one rotor. Our contest is still on - I'm getting dynoed on Aug 13th (not the greatest month as far as heat ) but I'm hoping for a somewhat cool day. I will only be running 15 psi for the dyno. Hoping for 390-400 rwhp at 15 psi - too bad you're on the other side of the country - you'd get a glimpse of a 93 FDs taillights with a huge stolen McDonalds arch welded to the truck Looking foward to your dynosheets!!!

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Originally posted by artguy

I had the same prob back when I was running stock turbos with my streetport...lag and low end power loss due to the port was causing cars to get me good from the line. Not anymore.


So you mean to tell me that the M2 ball bearings pratically elliminates the lag and low end power loss of a street port! I have always heard that the streetport gives the engine tons of top end power but at the sacrifice of low end torque and power loss. Thats one of the reasons why I don't want to consider a streetport because I too can't stand laggy performance. However, if these ball bearing turbos effectively elliminate this problem I will definately reconsider a future street port. So far it looks like you have the best of both worlds. Low and high end punch! Interesting!!

laujesse

iTrader: (19)

I was looking at a pic of the m2's on the rx7store web site and they look like revamped stock turbines.

Is this assumption correct that those are the actual M2's on the site???...


IF SO:

How are the m2's immune to the heat problem when they run sequential at High Boost/High RPM, and the 99 specs are not???

The 99 turbos have smaller compressor wheel but are 30% more efficient than the 93-95's.

I know the m2 compressor wheel is bigger and has to spin less but the heat problem does not come from the turbine... If it still has the (design flaw) stock ehaust housing running sequntial they will blow just as quick as the 99's at super high boost levels. You compressor can be spinning as slow as it wants but untill your secondary exhaust manifold stops getting too hot....

I might give you an edge BELOW 3000 rpms but thats about it. But your huge compressor wheels make me wonder about that too, as well as the FACT that small exhaust wheels and large compressor wheels are the foundation for boost creap. :

KevinK2

"So you mean to tell me that the M2 ball bearings pratically elliminates the lag and low end power loss of a street port!"

As I read it, turbo upgrade + much bigger SMIC.

laujesse

iTrader: (19)

?

TireSmokin7

Who sells the 99 spec twins and more importantly who has dyno report from someone useing a set?

Someone on the "big list" was working on anouther twin setup with larger turbos with an external wastgate. Anyone have a heads up on that one either.