OEM or Stainless OMP lines?
04-07-12, 03:31 PM
#1
OEM or Stainless OMP lines?
hey guys,
so i've been doing some research and i've gotten do different ideas about this from everything i've seen
i'd like to get a more current idea of what you guys think
I need to replace my OMP lines, and either way its going to cost me about the same
Stainless steel:
people say to go with this because you don't have the problem of snapping the lines anymore because they're so fragile
OEM:
people say to go with this because it allows you to keep tabs on the OMP to make sure its flowing oil properly, with the stainless lines you can't see into them to see if the OMP is working or not
what is everyones thoughts on this?
its pretty much the last thing i have to do to get my car started and going, but i want make sure i make the right decision on parts
looking forward to everyones thoughts and input
-VJ
so i've been doing some research and i've gotten do different ideas about this from everything i've seen
i'd like to get a more current idea of what you guys think
I need to replace my OMP lines, and either way its going to cost me about the same
Stainless steel:
people say to go with this because you don't have the problem of snapping the lines anymore because they're so fragile
OEM:
people say to go with this because it allows you to keep tabs on the OMP to make sure its flowing oil properly, with the stainless lines you can't see into them to see if the OMP is working or not
what is everyones thoughts on this?
its pretty much the last thing i have to do to get my car started and going, but i want make sure i make the right decision on parts
looking forward to everyones thoughts and input
-VJ
04-07-12, 04:02 PM
#2
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Have you considered removing the OMP all together and running Premix instead?
It lubricates the combustion chamber better then the OMP can and uses clean, new premix instead of pumping dirty crankcase oil on to the apex seals.
Premix + AI seems to keep motors looking brand new inside.
There are alot of really good threads about premixing and you can get an OMP block off plate and plugs for the omp lines/injectors from Bonzai-Racing for about 20.00 plus shipping.
But if you are staying with OMP I suggest the stainless lines, because to check with the clear OEM lines on you pretty much have to remove the UIM and part of the wiring harness to see it anyways.
I would think about premixing anyways since if the OMP fails the premix will be the only thing left to lubricate the friction surfaces inside the engine would be the premix. (but if you delete OMP you will have to premix with a greater ratio.
Just my $.02!!
It lubricates the combustion chamber better then the OMP can and uses clean, new premix instead of pumping dirty crankcase oil on to the apex seals.
Premix + AI seems to keep motors looking brand new inside.
There are alot of really good threads about premixing and you can get an OMP block off plate and plugs for the omp lines/injectors from Bonzai-Racing for about 20.00 plus shipping.
But if you are staying with OMP I suggest the stainless lines, because to check with the clear OEM lines on you pretty much have to remove the UIM and part of the wiring harness to see it anyways.
I would think about premixing anyways since if the OMP fails the premix will be the only thing left to lubricate the friction surfaces inside the engine would be the premix. (but if you delete OMP you will have to premix with a greater ratio.
Just my $.02!!
04-07-12, 04:07 PM
#3
Have you considered removing the OMP all together and running Premix instead?
It lubricates the combustion chamber better then the OMP can and uses clean, new premix instead of pumping dirty crankcase oil on to the apex seals.
Premix + AI seems to keep motors looking brand new inside.
There are alot of really good threads about premixing and you can get an OMP block off plate and plugs for the omp lines/injectors from Bonzai-Racing for about 20.00 plus shipping.
But if you are staying with OMP I suggest the stainless lines, because to check with the clear OEM lines on you pretty much have to remove the UIM and part of the wiring harness to see it anyways.
I would think about premixing anyways since if the OMP fails the premix will be the only thing left to lubricate the friction surfaces inside the engine would be the premix. (but if you delete OMP you will have to premix with a greater ratio.
Just my $.02!!
It lubricates the combustion chamber better then the OMP can and uses clean, new premix instead of pumping dirty crankcase oil on to the apex seals.
Premix + AI seems to keep motors looking brand new inside.
There are alot of really good threads about premixing and you can get an OMP block off plate and plugs for the omp lines/injectors from Bonzai-Racing for about 20.00 plus shipping.
But if you are staying with OMP I suggest the stainless lines, because to check with the clear OEM lines on you pretty much have to remove the UIM and part of the wiring harness to see it anyways.
I would think about premixing anyways since if the OMP fails the premix will be the only thing left to lubricate the friction surfaces inside the engine would be the premix. (but if you delete OMP you will have to premix with a greater ratio.
Just my $.02!!
I have read up on this before, and am seriously considering it, but i have such of fear of premixing wrong
also...whats the best premix to use? i see some people using 2-stroke oil, some people using the Pettit Racing stuff, some people using the idemitsu oil
whats the best thing to use to premix, and whats the best way to know that i'm premixing consistently at the right ratio?
as long as its not too complicated that i can screw it up some how (murphy's law tends to apply to me more than others
) more info on this please!
04-07-12, 04:17 PM
#4
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Basically I use the idemitsu pre mix, since you get 12 quarts for like 70 dollars and
idemitsu recommends 0.5 OZ per gallon of gas (that is for STOCK power levels)
If you are at around 400 hp they say 1 OZ per gallon, and if you are at a higher power level then that you can step it up to maybe 1.5oz per gallon.
The best way to premix (which in my opinion is the best way) is to figure out how much gas you want to fill up (say in 10 gallon or 5 gallon increments). for example if you are gonna fill up 10 gallons and your premixing 1oz/gal then you would just dump 10 oz of premix into the gas tank, then fill up 10 gallons of gas. The turbulence from the fuel rushing into the tank will mix up the premix evenly just fine.
Just make sure you premix every time you fill up gas and you should never have to worry.
also there are 32 oz in one quart so a case of 12 quarts should last you a very long time!
idemitsu recommends 0.5 OZ per gallon of gas (that is for STOCK power levels)
If you are at around 400 hp they say 1 OZ per gallon, and if you are at a higher power level then that you can step it up to maybe 1.5oz per gallon.
The best way to premix (which in my opinion is the best way) is to figure out how much gas you want to fill up (say in 10 gallon or 5 gallon increments). for example if you are gonna fill up 10 gallons and your premixing 1oz/gal then you would just dump 10 oz of premix into the gas tank, then fill up 10 gallons of gas. The turbulence from the fuel rushing into the tank will mix up the premix evenly just fine.
Just make sure you premix every time you fill up gas and you should never have to worry.
also there are 32 oz in one quart so a case of 12 quarts should last you a very long time!
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04-07-12, 05:29 PM
#8
Or just by the stuff to do it from MSC Direct
10 feet of this
PTFE for OMP
Several of these (buy extra)
Ear Clamps
This is what I used on my second gen - there are writeup on it in the 2nd gen section.
10 feet of this
PTFE for OMP
Several of these (buy extra)
Ear Clamps
This is what I used on my second gen - there are writeup on it in the 2nd gen section.
04-07-12, 08:14 PM
#9
Or just by the stuff to do it from MSC Direct
10 feet of this
PTFE for OMP
Several of these (buy extra)
Ear Clamps
This is what I used on my second gen - there are writeup on it in the 2nd gen section.
10 feet of this
PTFE for OMP
Several of these (buy extra)
Ear Clamps
This is what I used on my second gen - there are writeup on it in the 2nd gen section.
Anyone else have input to keep or not keep the OMP?
04-07-12, 10:22 PM
#13
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
OK, putting aside the premix/no premix argument, here's the skinny on the original question.
IMHO, there's no good reason to use the stainless OMP lines. The stock lines -
- Are reasonably priced
- Last the life of the engine with no failures
- Fit perfectly
- Work perfectly
Yes, they can get brittle with age/lots of miles, but they're just fine until you disturb them in the process of removing them from the car. Braided stainless is also VERY abrasive and can rub through whatever it touches, leading to further problems from other components failing. The stainless isn't bent to fit either so the fit is lousy.
The stainless OMP lines are a fix for a problem that doesn't exist. The stock lines work great and last a long time. And, don't compare the stainless lines to OLD 100,000+ mile stock lines - new stockers are flexible and nice.
NO GOOD REASON for the stainless lines. Period.
Dale
IMHO, there's no good reason to use the stainless OMP lines. The stock lines -
- Are reasonably priced
- Last the life of the engine with no failures
- Fit perfectly
- Work perfectly
Yes, they can get brittle with age/lots of miles, but they're just fine until you disturb them in the process of removing them from the car. Braided stainless is also VERY abrasive and can rub through whatever it touches, leading to further problems from other components failing. The stainless isn't bent to fit either so the fit is lousy.
The stainless OMP lines are a fix for a problem that doesn't exist. The stock lines work great and last a long time. And, don't compare the stainless lines to OLD 100,000+ mile stock lines - new stockers are flexible and nice.
NO GOOD REASON for the stainless lines. Period.
Dale
04-08-12, 09:16 AM
#16
+1 i keep stock lines so i can see if the oil is flowing or if its blowing back. I keep my stock OMP because it works and although i still premix 1/2 oz per 1 gal gas cuz of the HP increase my omp is extra protection for me.
for example....
http://s705.photobucket.com/albums/w...t=df9e716a.mp4
for example....
http://s705.photobucket.com/albums/w...t=df9e716a.mp4
04-08-12, 09:57 AM
#17
My experience with stainless has been good. But I admit they would be a PITA to install with the engine in the car. Since they aren't pre-bent/formed you have intall them so they aren't twisted. They would be the last lines you'd ever have to buy. I don't recall anything they rub against, but if they did I probably just put a section of old hose around it. If you have the sequential system in place and the OEM lines are very old at all, it's damn hard or impossible to see if they're flowing anyway. Regardless of whether you stay with OEM or go stainless, be sure to get NEW copper crush washers for both ends.
Along with MOBEONER....before you rip out the OMP here's food for thought....if you only pre-mix, when your injector duty-cycle goes to zero on decel, so does your lubrication. Around town that period is usually pretty brief and insignificant. But coming down a long hill, braking from high speed etc, IMO it's a different story.
When I rebuilt I popped for new housings along with pretty much new everything else. As a result I decided to try to make things last as long as possible. I kept the stock OMP (rpm and load dependent) AND I pre-mix at roughly 1/2 oz./gallon. I also have AI (boost activated water-only) to control carbon...along with the other bennies of AI.
No long-term wear results. But FWIW my plugs have now lasted over 25k with the car still starting, idling and generally running well. I had a new set to put in but when I pulled them a week ago, they still 'looked' almost like new.
Along with MOBEONER....before you rip out the OMP here's food for thought....if you only pre-mix, when your injector duty-cycle goes to zero on decel, so does your lubrication. Around town that period is usually pretty brief and insignificant. But coming down a long hill, braking from high speed etc, IMO it's a different story.
When I rebuilt I popped for new housings along with pretty much new everything else. As a result I decided to try to make things last as long as possible. I kept the stock OMP (rpm and load dependent) AND I pre-mix at roughly 1/2 oz./gallon. I also have AI (boost activated water-only) to control carbon...along with the other bennies of AI.
No long-term wear results. But FWIW my plugs have now lasted over 25k with the car still starting, idling and generally running well. I had a new set to put in but when I pulled them a week ago, they still 'looked' almost like new.
04-08-12, 10:20 AM
#18
My experience with stainless has been good. But I admit they would be a PITA to install with the engine in the car. Since they aren't pre-bent/formed you have intall them so they aren't twisted. They would be the last lines you'd ever have to buy. I don't recall anything they rub against, but if they did I probably just put a section of old hose around it. If you have the sequential system in place and the OEM lines are very old at all, it's damn hard or impossible to see if they're flowing anyway. Regardless of whether you stay with OEM or go stainless, be sure to get NEW copper crush washers for both ends.
Before you rip out the OMP here's food for thought. If you only pre-mix, when your injector duty-cycle goes to zero on decel, so does your lubrication. Around town that period is usually pretty brief and insignificant. But coming down a long hill, braking from high speed etc, IMO that period can get significant and from high rpm. Those with a PFC commander can watch it for themselves.
When I rebuilt I popped for new housings along with pretty much new everything else. As a result I decided to try to make things last as long as possible. I kept the stock OMP (rpm and load dependent) AND I pre-mix at roughly 1/2 oz./gallon. I also have AI (boost activated water-only) to control carbon...along with the other bennies of AI.
Now I don't have long-term wear results. But FWIW my plugs have now lasted over 25k with the car still starting, idling and generally running well. I had a new set to put in but when I pulled them a week ago, they still 'looked' almost like new.
Before you rip out the OMP here's food for thought. If you only pre-mix, when your injector duty-cycle goes to zero on decel, so does your lubrication. Around town that period is usually pretty brief and insignificant. But coming down a long hill, braking from high speed etc, IMO that period can get significant and from high rpm. Those with a PFC commander can watch it for themselves.
When I rebuilt I popped for new housings along with pretty much new everything else. As a result I decided to try to make things last as long as possible. I kept the stock OMP (rpm and load dependent) AND I pre-mix at roughly 1/2 oz./gallon. I also have AI (boost activated water-only) to control carbon...along with the other bennies of AI.
Now I don't have long-term wear results. But FWIW my plugs have now lasted over 25k with the car still starting, idling and generally running well. I had a new set to put in but when I pulled them a week ago, they still 'looked' almost like new.
wow now thats what i'm talking about
alright so pre-mix and OMP it is
whats the best pre-mix to use though...is the Pettit stuff any good? cus i have a couple of the small bottles of that laying in the garage somewhere
04-08-12, 10:31 AM
#19
My personal opinion.....
JUNK the OMP and lines.... NO need to pump dirty engine oil onto the Rotors. They cause build up and future issues...(seals/springs getting stuck)
Having the OMP and adding 1/2oz per gallon is over kill... Premixing the right amount is more than enough specially if it's NOT your daily driver.
Pettit's additive works great BUT is very expensive. He orders it from the marine idustry and it's NOT his product.... He just relabels it and charges a PREMIUM...
Personally, I use either Castrol 2 cycle or a generic brand from any auto parts. There are threads on here that have done the research and they have past the test..
L8R
JUNK the OMP and lines.... NO need to pump dirty engine oil onto the Rotors. They cause build up and future issues...(seals/springs getting stuck)
Having the OMP and adding 1/2oz per gallon is over kill... Premixing the right amount is more than enough specially if it's NOT your daily driver.
Pettit's additive works great BUT is very expensive. He orders it from the marine idustry and it's NOT his product.... He just relabels it and charges a PREMIUM...
Personally, I use either Castrol 2 cycle or a generic brand from any auto parts. There are threads on here that have done the research and they have past the test..
L8R
04-08-12, 11:18 AM
#21
The OMP vs no OMP battles rage on. Time to get my hammer to beat this dead horse.
I too have installed SS braided OMP lines. I personally like the idea of buying them once and not having to worry about them. Dale has brought up their abrasive qualities, but I believe as long as you properly route them that should not be an issue. I have installed my lines with my motor in. I did it while I did my vacuum hose job. As long as you're patient and understand where you are routing them you should have no difficulty routing them. The only item of concern when routing I would say is your crank angle sensor. As long as you utilize the factory clamps and zip tie the lines to keep them together, I see no issues.
+1 Absolutely. Also be sure to make sure your nozzle check valves have not failed. New nozzles are $40 for a pair I believe.
Definitely a point of concern and a huge argument against full premix.
We ave several ways around this now a days. Richard Sohn's OMP adapter is a fantastic piece. Having the OMP meter in nice clean premix or 2 stroke oil is way better than dirty engine oil. AI is also a large step above stuck seals due to carbon build up.
Not my ideal choice of words. I believe adding 1/2 oz of premix along with the OMP is a good fail safe in the even your OMP nozzles fail. If your OMP nozzle check valves go, so does your lubrication under boost. In the event your nozzles fail without your knowledge, wouldn't it be nice to know you have a back up? Testing your check valves is as easy as taking the breather line from your primary turbo inlet and blowing through it. If you can blow through it and not suck back through, you're in good shape.
I did not trust my factory OMP lines at first glance. I felt if I looked at them the wrong way they might snap like twigs. But upon removing them to replace them with my SS lines, I discovered they are actually quite flexible and not rigid at all. Brand new ones would be a nice route to go. But again its all in preference I suppose.
My experience with stainless has been good. But I admit they would be a PITA to install with the engine in the car. Since they aren't pre-bent/formed you have intall them so they aren't twisted. They would be the last lines you'd ever have to buy. I don't recall anything they rub against, but if they did I probably just put a section of old hose around it.
Regardless of whether you stay with OEM or go stainless, be sure to get NEW copper crush washers for both ends.
Along with MOBEONER....before you rip out the OMP here's food for thought....if you only pre-mix, when your injector duty-cycle goes to zero on decel, so does your lubrication. Around town that period is usually pretty brief and insignificant. But coming down a long hill, braking from high speed etc, IMO it's a different story.
NO need to pump dirty engine oil onto the Rotors. They cause build up and future issues...(seals/springs getting stuck)
Having the OMP and adding 1/2oz per gallon is over kill...
I did not trust my factory OMP lines at first glance. I felt if I looked at them the wrong way they might snap like twigs. But upon removing them to replace them with my SS lines, I discovered they are actually quite flexible and not rigid at all. Brand new ones would be a nice route to go. But again its all in preference I suppose.
04-08-12, 09:38 PM
#25
"Not my ideal choice of words. I believe adding 1/2 oz of premix along with the OMP is a good fail safe in the even your OMP nozzles fail. If your OMP nozzle check valves go, so does your lubrication under boost. In the event your nozzles fail without your knowledge, wouldn't it be nice to know you have a back up? Testing your check valves is as easy as taking the breather line from your primary turbo inlet and blowing through it. If you can blow through it and not suck back through, you're in good shape."
Thanks... This proves my point... You run Premix as a "fail safe"... eliminate the cause for your worry.... Go pre-mix and get rid of the OMP... no need to worry about anything failing..
He is NOT running A/I or anything else to help eliminate the carbon buildup. He is NOT going to drive it daily... NO need for an OMP...
Thanks... This proves my point... You run Premix as a "fail safe"... eliminate the cause for your worry.... Go pre-mix and get rid of the OMP... no need to worry about anything failing..
He is NOT running A/I or anything else to help eliminate the carbon buildup. He is NOT going to drive it daily... NO need for an OMP...