No oil
10-31-04, 05:01 PM
#1
faster
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No oil
A brain dead oil change person forgot to put oil in my FD at the mazda dealer in
my area. The car was driven from service bay to wash bay and then to check out.
I got in and started to drive out looked at the gauges saw there was no oil
pressure and turned the car off. Since the turbo timer was on I think the car
ran for 3-5 minutes during this process. They pushed the car back to the service
bay and I watched them put oil in it. It started right up with pressure and did
not smoke. So far everything seems to be fine but I wounder about the long term.
The tech on duty said of cource they would pay for any proplems that this might
have caused. He wrote it all down so I have documentation. Should I take my
car to a third party to have it checked out as I don't trust this dealer any more?
my area. The car was driven from service bay to wash bay and then to check out.
I got in and started to drive out looked at the gauges saw there was no oil
pressure and turned the car off. Since the turbo timer was on I think the car
ran for 3-5 minutes during this process. They pushed the car back to the service
bay and I watched them put oil in it. It started right up with pressure and did
not smoke. So far everything seems to be fine but I wounder about the long term.
The tech on duty said of cource they would pay for any proplems that this might
have caused. He wrote it all down so I have documentation. Should I take my
car to a third party to have it checked out as I don't trust this dealer any more?
10-31-04, 05:16 PM
#2
Call me gramps!
If there REALLY wasn't any oil in there, the oil level sensor should have gone off. They were possibly just topping it off. As for the stock oil pressure gauge, often times it is just a faulty sender.
10-31-04, 05:27 PM
#3
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Originally Posted by spank1
A brain dead oil change person forgot to put oil in my FD at the mazda dealer in
my area. The car was driven from service bay to wash bay and then to check out.
I got in and started to drive out looked at the gauges saw there was no oil
pressure and turned the car off. Since the turbo timer was on I think the car
ran for 3-5 minutes during this process. They pushed the car back to the service
bay and I watched them put oil in it. It started right up with pressure and did
not smoke. So far everything seems to be fine but I wounder about the long term.
The tech on duty said of cource they would pay for any proplems that this might
have caused. He wrote it all down so I have documentation. Should I take my
car to a third party to have it checked out as I don't trust this dealer any more?
my area. The car was driven from service bay to wash bay and then to check out.
I got in and started to drive out looked at the gauges saw there was no oil
pressure and turned the car off. Since the turbo timer was on I think the car
ran for 3-5 minutes during this process. They pushed the car back to the service
bay and I watched them put oil in it. It started right up with pressure and did
not smoke. So far everything seems to be fine but I wounder about the long term.
The tech on duty said of cource they would pay for any proplems that this might
have caused. He wrote it all down so I have documentation. Should I take my
car to a third party to have it checked out as I don't trust this dealer any more?
If you would rather take it somewhere, drive it up to Mariah's in SB www.mariahmotorsports.com. They know what they are doing. The next closest rotary shop to you would be Tri-Point in the valley. http://tripointengineering.com/ . Also, the So Cal RX Club has their meetings in Camarillo every month. You can meet up with some local owners and ask any questions. http://www.socal7s.org/ . They have a mailing list to keep you updated with events.
It's wierd to think that there were unknown people driving FD's around Ventura County. I see a few old ladys in the Ventura area all the time. Never saw one in Ojai though.
Last edited by Fumanchu; 10-31-04 at 05:30 PM.
10-31-04, 06:52 PM
#5
I've never seen an engine run for more than 10 seconds when it truly had no oil supply. There had to be at least a quart still in circulation. The thing would have locked dead up and spun bearings if it was absolutely out of oil. No way around that. IT would not have made it farther than being backed out of the bay the first time...
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10-31-04, 07:12 PM
#8
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Yeah but a quart of oil? Still... Even if there was SOME oil and they forgot to put it in and turned it on, no way in hell I'd take it to a place like that again. Even if they didn't do any damage it's the fact that it sounds really negligent on their part.
10-31-04, 07:20 PM
#9
It is my understanding that even though the oil pan is drained during an oil change. There is still going to be oil in the oil cooler(s), oil cooler(s) lines, and other lines as well. Although I am not sure how much that equates too. But regardless, I'd try to get all that I could out of the situation, that’s absurd. I am sorry to hear that happened to you.
Last edited by ROTARYFDTT; 10-31-04 at 07:24 PM.
10-31-04, 09:40 PM
#12
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On the oil dipstick, if it goes from F to E, you've lost something around 1.4 quarts. I checked it on the service manual because me being the dummy, I forgot to check the oil level before taking my 250 mile trip!!! Doh!
10-31-04, 10:37 PM
#13
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I don't know why some guys seem to think the engine would not run without oil but it surely did. There was some left on the barring surfaces but none to be pumped to pressurize the barrings. Surely there is damage to the barring surfaces both in the engine and the turbos. If they expect you wait for a problem to surface there must be nuts. I would jump on them now and demand an engine. They are just hoping you will go away and if you have a problem 3 months from now they will shut you down. They screwed up, I would except an engine and nothing less. Knowing there could be substantial damage to an engine which is built on the edge from the factory as a true performance unit. Just my opinion 20 years dealership drive-ability specialist.
11-01-04, 11:38 AM
#14
I think it couldnt have run without oil, because I have personally seen engines that ran without oil. I was around 2 cars that ran out of oil, each one locked up within seconds.
ONe was an FC partscar I bought for 200 dollars, unflooded it and took it for a drive about 2 miles. Just then the oil buzzer went off, but I was in the middle of a bridge with no shoulder, so I had to continue to the other side. Before I even made it, about 15 seconds, all the oil dumped out and the engine quickly lost power and locked up. Turns out a DPO had replaced a leaking oil cooler hose with a garden hose.
Once was when a local guy rebuilt his own engine at my place. I let him do his own work and was there to help when he asked. HE puts the thing in and fires it up, revs to 3000rpm for a few seconds to clear it out...maybe 5 seconds later it just goes buuuurrrr-clunk. IT was locked solid then, not even a breaker bar would help. HE pulls it out and apart to find that he let the oilpump drive sprocket key slip out of place during install, so as soon as the pump loaded with oil it stopped spinning. Locked and spun the front rotor and main bearing. The engine did have assembly lube on all bearings, and this coating of oil is only good for a few seconds before it is dissipated and you have metal to metal contact.
Either there was oil in the car to some extent (Hell, I dont know, maybe one guy put in a quart or 2, and then left or forgot the rest) OR you have an engine with damaged bearings. Check your oil filter and oilpan for metal.
ONe was an FC partscar I bought for 200 dollars, unflooded it and took it for a drive about 2 miles. Just then the oil buzzer went off, but I was in the middle of a bridge with no shoulder, so I had to continue to the other side. Before I even made it, about 15 seconds, all the oil dumped out and the engine quickly lost power and locked up. Turns out a DPO had replaced a leaking oil cooler hose with a garden hose.
Once was when a local guy rebuilt his own engine at my place. I let him do his own work and was there to help when he asked. HE puts the thing in and fires it up, revs to 3000rpm for a few seconds to clear it out...maybe 5 seconds later it just goes buuuurrrr-clunk. IT was locked solid then, not even a breaker bar would help. HE pulls it out and apart to find that he let the oilpump drive sprocket key slip out of place during install, so as soon as the pump loaded with oil it stopped spinning. Locked and spun the front rotor and main bearing. The engine did have assembly lube on all bearings, and this coating of oil is only good for a few seconds before it is dissipated and you have metal to metal contact.
Either there was oil in the car to some extent (Hell, I dont know, maybe one guy put in a quart or 2, and then left or forgot the rest) OR you have an engine with damaged bearings. Check your oil filter and oilpan for metal.
11-01-04, 11:51 AM
#15
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If there was no oil circulating in the motor that thing would have seized within moments.
The low oil level light is just that, low oil level. Just because the light is on doesn't mean it is dry. If all they did was putter it around the parking lot and idle I bet all is fine. We all know it's no big deal for the stock oil pressure sender to read 0 psi.
If that motor truly had no oil in it it would have locked up way before you got in it. If a bearing was spun you would know it. Have the dealer right up a letter with signatures from the Service Manager and the owner that documents what happened.
The low oil level light is just that, low oil level. Just because the light is on doesn't mean it is dry. If all they did was putter it around the parking lot and idle I bet all is fine. We all know it's no big deal for the stock oil pressure sender to read 0 psi.
If that motor truly had no oil in it it would have locked up way before you got in it. If a bearing was spun you would know it. Have the dealer right up a letter with signatures from the Service Manager and the owner that documents what happened.
11-01-04, 11:54 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by J.S.J
There was some left on the barring surfaces but none to be pumped to pressurize the barrings
Last edited by DamonB; 11-01-04 at 11:57 AM.
11-01-04, 01:09 PM
#17
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the thing is during an oil change you maybe drop out ~ 4 qt the engine dry capacity is about 5.5qt. when RR's car siezed it was actively pumping out oil so it ran dry. yes there is no doubt some extra wear and tear occured but they will say it was negligable as the car is still running. did it take 5,000 mi off the life of the engine? who knows. i would talk to another service advisor and see what they will do for you. new engine would be a good goal
11-01-04, 01:39 PM
#18
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
Either there was oil in the car to some extent (Hell, I dont know, maybe one guy put in a quart or 2, and then left or forgot the rest) OR you have an engine with damaged bearings. Check your oil filter and oilpan for metal.
Jeff
11-01-04, 02:45 PM
#19
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Most places are insured against situations like this - if you need a new motor because of their negligence, their insurance should take care of you.
Dale
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11-01-04, 02:50 PM
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The oil lines and filter (s) contain oil, even after fully draining the pan. You likely had between 0.5-1 quart of oil still in the system. I'm with the other guys, send the oil out for testing.
11-01-04, 03:30 PM
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I will still state the fact is there was not enough oil to reach the pick up tube, hence no flow to barrings period. So you can decide for your-selfs if you think the barring surfaces were damaged. Sure they had some oil there but only enough to handle a few seconds. After that the heat build up becomes exponential. I could care less about what the shop would say in there defense. Remember its a dealership and they are better finding ways to remove accountability than repairing cars. I have has dozens of cars and trucks quickly brought to me after a major repair has been done which didn't fix the problem. Two come to mind, first a guys truck had a transmission installed , now it was a late 90s G.M. model. The bill was over 2,200.00 dollars and it needed a 10 dollar plug wire. The dealership ordered me to install a "used" wire as not to bring attention to the repair. The second is a Park avenue a 2000 model. The line tech installed a new timing chain etc because of a slow cranking speed. Well it needed a ground cleaned leading from the battery cable. Again I was "ordered" to repair it fast and keep it quiet. I refused but copied the repair orders and told the manager to back off or I would act against the dealership. I won out her but the dealer still nailed the costumers. I would act on the issue.
11-01-04, 04:28 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by J.S.J
I will still state the fact is there was not enough oil to reach the pick up tube, hence no flow to barrings period. So you can decide for your-selfs if you think the barring surfaces were damaged.
11-01-04, 04:37 PM
#25
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The dealer wants me to bring the car back to drop the oil pan to check for any shavings
that would have come from the bearings. I would rather take it to a third party but they
are saying that they won't cover that and their insurance woun't cover any eng repair
unless they do it.
that would have come from the bearings. I would rather take it to a third party but they
are saying that they won't cover that and their insurance woun't cover any eng repair
unless they do it.