jpandes

I probably already know the answer to this question, but I am hoping some of you guys have some good advice for me.

As the title states, I just had a motor rebuilt by an out of state engine builder and had it sent to a local shop for R&R.

After 5 weeks of not having my car(read: Shop is really slow), my shop says that the motor is bad. Oil is pouring out upon start-up. So, if it's not an easy fix, I'm assuming that I'll have to get the builder to honor their warranty and replace or fix the motor.

My question is: Who is responsible for the additional labor expense for a second R&R? I mean, it's not my ******* fault.

Has anyone had any experience with getting the labor covered/discounted for a bad motor???


Thanks in advance,

John

spurvo

Weird, I though you were up and running by now...

I think it comes down to what the actual problem turns out to be. If it is a seal or the oil pan, then the rebuilder (note: my engine was done by them around the same time with no problems) should be willing to "help out" though I suspect that will be in trade, rather than paying cash to another shop.

If the leak is due to the subsequent engine assambly process, such as OMP, turbo oil control lines, or motor mount bolts, then the shop should cover it.

Bottom line, as much as you may not want to do it, you need to be absolutely sure where the oil is coming from, like crawl under it and look as the engine is running. If the install shop gives you a hard time about the liability of being under the lift while it's running, sign a waiver. If they REALLY wont let you see what they see, begin to be a little worrind about the shop. Good mechanics don't get defensive, they educate their customers.

Oil can leak from a surprising number of loacations, many of which pop up during the engine build up. Oil cooler lines, both at the cooler end (you MUST use new O-rings, call Pineapple for a set) and where they attach to the engine (read that as NEW copper washers). Oil filter pedastall needs two rubber O-rings. Oil metering pump needs a new oval O-ring, and new crush washers on the carrying lines (and new lines, IMO. Old ones really won't come clean enough, and these things are actually relatively cheap). Oil send line to the turbo needs new washers for the banjo bolt, and the compression fitting needs to be well secured. The oil return lines from the turbos need new gaskets at the turbo side and at the engine side, and don't forget the front return tube has an intermediate connection that has a different gasket than the rest, and will leak like a pig if they get mixed up. Engine mount bolts have to be COVERED in silicone sealer to keep from leaking everywhere, and I'm pretty sure the rebuilder didn't put engine mounts on there did they? For that martter, when I installed my engine, I made the mistake of not separating the transmission first, and had to wrestle the engine in there. I ended up pulling the motor mounts off until the engien was mostly mated to the transmission, so I ended up putting truly gross amounts of sealant on the bolts. No leaks so far... Also the oil level warning sensor, on the other side of the pan from the drain plug, needs a new O-ring after 10 years of heating and cooling. Mine was rock hard.

Hope this helped any...

Trout2

iTrader: (5)

Who built the motor? What did they say about labor?

In most cases your SOL unless its a Mazda reman done at a Mazda dealer. In a court of law, I believe most juries and judge would agree that the builder is liable. If the builder did the R&R, they would have to cover it.

I got three bad motors from Pineapple before getting a motor from RP/rx7.com (they run their motors on a test stand to avoid such problems). Luckily I do my own labor so it didn't cost money but it takes me about 20 hours to completely R&R (time=money). Unfortunately, I'm still out of pocket for the motor but at least kept two engines that should have some salvagable parts.

Jack

jpandes

Ok, I think I jumped the gun. I just got off the phone with the builder and he said that two engine plugs were probably left off. They usually leave 'em open and ship the plugs in a bad w/ instructions. The bag must have fallen off during shipping. The oil holes are usually used for loop lines etc.

I had the builder call my shop to explain the quick fix...I am hoping that this is the only issue.

pomanferrari

iTrader: (1)

Can you elaborate on the technique of putting sealer on the engine mount bolts? Havent' heard of this before.

Plus, alot of people said it was easier to mount the engine to the transmission and then install both into the frame. Did you do it this way and why did you have to separate the tranny?

spurvo

Sure. The bolts go through the oil pan and into the block. If there is no sealer on the bolts, you leak from the bolts. Certainly, a bead around the underside of the bolt would possibly be ok, but this seems a good place for leaks, so why not place enough sealer to make sure no avenue exists for oil to get out? I should be responsible and mention that if do not clean most of the old sealant off the threads before gooping them up and installing them, you run the risk of building pressure in the bolt hole and possibly cracking the housing, leading to unsealable leak! I also ran a thick bead around the backside of the motor mount itself, where it mates to the pan. So far, nice and dry

I was back and forth over the tranny with engine vs. leave it in during the pull. Ultimately, the depth of my garage decided for me. Just wasn't enough room to get all that stuff in there, it seemed. In retrospect, I'd pull them mated together, and perhaps more importantly, figure out how to get my tilting bridle to attach more centrally to the engine. As I tilted the engine, it would twist counterclockwise around the pulling loop axis, making mating VERY tough. Anyway, I'd like to hear if people have needed to remove their motor mounts when dropping the engine/tranny combo back in. My problem was in getting the through bolts over the crossmember dish edges where the mounts rdop into.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

THREE bad motors from pineapple?! I Thought that guy had one of the best reps. in the biz... that inexcusable, what was wrong with them?

Trout2

iTrader: (5)

Apparently, Pineapple has a bad employee that was just throwing engines together. I can understand that a business has an employee problem but yes it is unexcusable when that became the customer's problem.

Its a long story of epic proportions. See this thread for some of the details, its not pretty and I'm not the only one.
http://www.nopistons.com/forums/inde...howtopic=21350

Jack

radkins

That thread was about Haynes. What does that have to do with Pineapple?

Sorry but I have read alot of that thread already, so I didn't read it.

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

I'm sorry to hear about your junk engines, but if you are skilled enough to remove and reinstall the engines, why didn't you just rebuild the motor yourself?
It's not all that hard, and you would have saved yourself a ton of money and the headache of installing 3 different engines.

Mr. Gadget

end of page two and most of three.

WOW, I feel for those guys. I have done rotaries off and on since 72 and never had coolant fill the exhaust manifold, let alone before the damm thing was even cranked the first time.

Trout2

iTrader: (5)

If I could have looked in the crystal ball and seen how long it was gonna take, I would have done the research and built it myslef. I could have screwed up three times and come out ahead. The old saying "if you want something done right, do it yourself" holds so true.

Jack

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

I couldn't agree with you more.

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

Mazdatrix test runs their engines before shipping. I think i'm going to order the rebuild video from Atkins.