fastcarfreak

Well guys, I dont think their has been many if any reviews or anything about the setup so i figured why not share. I have been running the dual stage water injection system since the car was tuned by Steve Kan on the 9th of July. We did not tune for it, i am just using it as a safety thing. My setup consists of a T78 with all supporting mods and microtech's LT12S ecu.

I hope this thread doesnt provoke any arguments or anything so Im gonna just say what I feel. I think this system is great. I feel so much more confortable running with the peace of mind of having it there to protect me. It doesnt cause the car to hesitate when it comes on, it has not one ill effect on the car whatsoever, from what i can tell.

Today I filled up the bottle with just water to the full line. Dont remember what the size is, but it's the biggest size bottle Cooling Mist offers. I got the car up to temperature and took it for a spin without getting into boost. I wanted to do a little test to see if it there was a difference in feel with the system on and with the system off. So i do a 3rd gear pull. I start with it off and wait till i get full boost. Once full boost was obtained, a brief second later i flicked the switch to turn it on. As soon as i flicked the switch The car pulled harder (I swear to this, and there was definately a difference) I said, well hey, that felt good. I thought maybe by some chance i just hit it at a specific point where my power band kicked in, I dont know for sure, It is possible. So I wanted to try it again in 4th gear. I do a 4th gear pull starting with the system off and waited for full boost. A brief second after i hit full boost, I again flicked the switch on. This time, I felt absolutely no difference whatsoever. Not even one bit of hesitation or anything. This could have to do with more load being on the motor at higher speeds.

So take what I said for what its worth. In one case it seemed to have helped. In another case it didnt effect that car at all. So if by running water injection it is protecting against detonation and it doesnt have any ill effect on performance, I think every turbo rotary car should be using it.

The only problem I have with the setup, and I mean the ONLY problem, is the fact that it goes through the bottle too quickly. I thought a bottle was supposed to last a decent amount of time, but this is not the case. I went through the whole bottle of water withing maybe 10 - 15 minutes of spirited driving. I dont have any indicater telling me I am out of water. So this is why I am glad my car is absolutely not tuned for water injection. I ran through the water and didnt even know it. If I had been tuned for it, my motor would probably be gone. I would be willing to bet, the bottle i have is only good for maybe four 1/4 mile races or maybe 2 laps on the track. So if by some chance you plan to tune for this system, make sure you have some kind of indicator, and maybe use an even bigger bottle. Since the 9th of july, i have been through 3 and a half one gallon bottles of water. I cant imagine running methanol in the mix. I would probably be spending more money on methanol than gasoline, lol. Well, enough of my babbling, I hope you enjoyed the read.

Adam

cmartinp28

good info... i have that same kit

i think you're boost happy since the tuning session ... thats why you are goin though the bottles of water so fast

92 FD

water injection, methanol, oil injection pumps, torque braces, knock sensors, ignition amps, fancy engine management systems, gauges everywhere, wideband AFR meters

you think we were launching the damn space shuttle....instead we're trying to keep a little beer keg motor from literally flying apart at a moment's notice

7racer

good info Adam,

I have the dual stage also...but haven't boosted yet due to still breaking in the engine.

What psi do you have each stage coming on? Where are your locations for the injectors? Which way are they "pointing". Just curious.

fastcarfreak

I will admit to being very boost happy. I know, I know, i need to stop. Admitting I have a problem is the first step.

fastcarfreak

I have the first stage come on at around 4 psi and I have that nozzle located right on the greddy elbo right around the apex on the lower end. No fancy extenders or anything just the nozzle it comes with pointing straight in. I have the second stage come on at the setting it comes from cooling mist (around 10 psi they said) and I have that located before the elbo maybe a foot and a half also pointing straight in. Like I said it seems like I have them set at good boost settings, because I dont get any hesitation or anything. Also when Im just doing some normal driving and i happen to hit just little bit of boost, i get a little water from the smaller nozzle spraying in.

Im sure there is a better way of setting this system up, but it seems to be working well.

Adam

7racer

Thanks. I was just curious. That's almost exactly how I have mine set (one plumbed in at the greddy elbo and the other at the intercooler outlet)

SlingShotRX7

When you say straight in?? DO you mean in the same direction of the
the Air flow??

Because from my understanding.. You have to point the nozzle
in the opposite direction spraying (towards) the charged air, to get the
optimum effect. am I mistaken??

also. So you have your first stage closer to the UIM(elbow) than the 2nd stage?
is there a particular reasoning for it??

Was it hard to install?? drilling into the elbows and etc???

also did you ever consider having the 1st stage spraying into the intercooler???

fastcarfreak

By straight in, i mean tapped into the pipe and it is being sprayed straight in from the outside of the pipe. So you could say it is perpendicular to air flow. Yes spraying in the direction or against air flow would probably be better but then you have a mass in the middle of your intake pipe which would probably restrict air flow. I possitioned mine, for convenience.

The reason I have the first stage closer to the throttle body is because it is a smaller nozzle,and less water has to be atomized. I also have it this way because I am using the first stage for a preliminary cooling effect. Im sure it doesnt really matter whether its their or further upstream. The only difference would be the water reaching the combustion chamber quicker, which is probably a negligable amount of time.

The install wasnt too difficult, I had someone else do the wiring, due to me not having time, or too much knowledge on wiring. Now I am confident I could install this system with no problem at all. I had my father take the pipe to work to have tapped with the required NPT. You could have almost any machine shop or probably most mechanics do this, if you dont have the tools.

I didnt consider spraying at the intercooler at all, I figured I would just let the intercooler do what it does without messing with it.

Adam

rotorbrain

i still have yet to install mine. . . cause. . . of things that come up. . . and ive had it for VERY long time. anyways, im torn at where to position the nozzles. everybody claims that they should be pointing toward the air stream. i would figured you wouldnt want to do this. with the change in direction, wouldnt there be a bit of condenstation? i figure the nozzles do enough for atomization and dont NEED more help. . . or shouldnt. having it further from the engine means that the atomized water has to go through bends and the such, and therefore has more of a chance to condense. . . cause itll hit walls and whatnot. thats why i was figuring on putting mine right at the throttle body. . . both of em.

any input on this?

7racer

On aquamist website and other things, suggest that you separate the two nozzles. About pointing them into the stream...that was suggested by David when he was first tinkering with his set up. If you have his upgraded injector (90 degree bend) I'm sure it would be easy to flip it around and test it.

For me, the question that I wish more people have tried, would be running 50/50 water/methanol.

fastcarfreak

To be honest, i cant see there being that much difference. I would just tap into a spot that is convenient to you. You should get this installed asap man. You will be very upset if something happens to that motor. You will be telling yourself how stupid you are for procrastinating if you get stuck with a rebuild bill. I know I wish I had purchased water injection before my last rebuild. lol. Good luck.

Adam

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

A 4/10PSI stage is not logical as you do not need it even as a backup safety device until about 15+PSI boost. You are just wasting power and fluid with your setup. Something like 12/16PSI would be better.

Also your test method sucks. If you have access to a DATALOGIT, log some runs with and without water at lease 14PSI boost.

Using too much water, have you calculated to see if your water flow is about 15-20% fuel flow?

fastcarfreak

Alot of people run the 50/50 mix. Not just in rotary application, but in most water injection systems. I feel that since i am tuned so rich (high 10s for AFRs) That I wouldn't benifit from more fuel. I may tinker with a small mixture of methanol, just to see how it reacts differently, and so the fluid has a less chance of freezing in the lines when winter hits. I dont feel like removing the system.

Adam

finnicky7

I use the same setup here are two dyno runs with and without the water. I ran 14hp highter with the water. Both runs were done at 20 psi. I run my wtaer injection at 10 psi and 15 psi.

7racer

about the 50/50....people on the aquamist website suggested that it gave more torque....

I assume that would be WITH tuning for it....

but I also read that the methanol messes with the O2 sensor giving false readings making more difficult to tune.

7racer

chuck,

why water at the higher psi? I'm just curious.

fastcarfreak

Well Im sorry you feel that way. Thats the way I intend to keep it for the time being.
As for not needing it for safety until 15+ psi, Heres the thing. Chances are when I hit that 10 psi mark, its because I am at wide out throttle, and usually somewhere between 14 and 18 psi, depending on where my boost controller is set at, at that specific time.

Like I stated earlier in the thread, I just started using this recently, and am still toying with it. I thank you for your suggestions, and I may use them in the future.

One last thing i want to add, both my last two motors blew at Bar (14.5 Psi), so i just want to have all the protection possible. Water is relatively cheap anyways. Im sure if I start doing a 50/50 mix I will be a little more conservative.

Adam