err that would be breaking. Tisk tisk I should proofread.

 

Fuel lines will need to be upgraded.. Along the lines of something like Dual 8 an lines with dual pumps.. one setup per rail. with a FPR and -8 return. And the primaries should be 850's and secondaries should be 1600's at bear minimum.

 

I already have 850 primaries and dual walbros. Before I drop the walbros in though I want to make sure Im good on the right size fuel lines. Gonna get a FPR, fuel rail, and 1680cc secondaries along with a -8an feed and -6an return sometime soon. Now I need to figure out when I can knock my FD down...again...to do all this.

 

when you hit 600 hp (if and when you ever do, I HIGHLY doubt it) that will keep you entertained for about a week (if you don't kill yourself), and then you'll be looking for 800....or whatever

the treadmill....leading nowhere

 

I have 500whp and I am trying to go down in power. 400-ish whp with faster spool. I have a T-88 now and my power band is from 5500-8500rpm. I make 220whp at 5000 rpm and it rockets to 497 by 8000 rpm. What sucks is I make 100-150whp until 5000 rpm. Anyway. It can be done, and I drive mine.

This is what is done on mine. I have 850 primaries, 1600 secondaries, porsche 911 turbo fuel pump. Power FC controlling the mayhem. With stock fuel pressure I am never getting over 85% IDC.

With a well built engine it is somewhat reliable. It gets the fuel economy of a Hummer and gets wasted by Hybrid Civics below 5000rpm. Oh, and if you dont left foot brake in turns it ends up like a 900hp Supra in Gran tourismo 3. (not pretty). Unless you are building a dedicated race vehicle I would just be happy with 400-ish whp and reasonable spool.

 

Sub-Zero runs 26psi on a TO4R making a little over 500.. What the hell do you want 600 for? Bragging rights? Half the morons that own these cars total them at 255hp. What do you plan on using the car for? Could you even afford to maintain it?

My TO4R scares the **** out of me at 14-15 psi.. I'd imagine ~400hp.. Honestly, it's all over the damn place. You're talking about being bored at 290 and wanting 600? How bout reallistic goals first?

 

Gamezilla,

No offense homie but at 19 I'd doubt that you can handle 600 RWHP. **** I'd doubt that I could handle that.


If you don't mind me asking how did you come up with the 600 HP number? Do you have friend with one? Honestly, I cannot even fathom what an FD with those numbers would feel like.

How do you plan on maintaning this beast? Are you rich or something? Parents? Note that I do not have anything against parents footing the bill. I'm just asking. Please don't tell me you spend all your money on your car... You have the rest of your life to work paying off bills. **** when I was 19 - 20 all I did was go to school, F#ck my GF, surf, and party. In that order.

 

I will let you guys in on a little secret of mine... I really haven't had my car past 4700 RPM (guessing) at WOT in any gear. With my car anyways, WOT zings the RPM's faster than crap. By mid 4k's RPM's in WOT the car is already putting black tire marks down on the road.

I don't know my exact RWHP to RPM figures; for on the 13.5 psi dyno I have, we started the run late into the 4th gear. But, at 4000 RPMs the car is at 300 rwhp; 4300 rpms the car is at 400 rwhp; 4500 rpms the car is at 500 rwhp; 4800 rpms the car is at 560 rwhp; 5400 rpms the car has broke the 600 rwhp mark, and continues to go from there.

I couldn't imagine how it would be on a 13b. A very ugly power graph in my opinion.

The only reason why I could see you wanting that much power (on a 13b), is for drag racing. Otherwise for street use the car isn't very usefull. It would kind of stink to have that stock Neon SRT4 beat you in a simple little stoplight fun against your 600 rwhp car; for 1) where your power is you won't be able to really put it down on the pavement at that rpm, 2) the power you make before that rwhp kicks in is really nill.

 

a 13b 600hp can be dont with 2 t04R or 2 t66. but that would be alot of heat under the engine bay.




Red RX7 car i know could easily hit 210mph

 

Um, not with the gearing he has now he couldn't.

 

600 rwhp is certainly -possible-. But the question is how much money are you willing to pour into the car, how streetable do you want it to be, and how much power can you handle?

600 rwhp on a 13B is race gas time.... and a big turbo... Do you want to be spending that kinda money on race fuel all the time? Your "streetability" will probably suffer since you'll be using a pretty big turbo. And let's not forget how much this is all going to cost....

If you really want 600, just do a 20B

 

Is that because you're stressing the engine so much, detonation is that much more likely? So you should run race gas just to do it safetly?

 

The max speed my car can hit with the GURU gear box is 164 MPH.

It has a .85 the gear, and my 4.11 rear end @ 7500 RPM = ~164 MPH.
If I changed my rear end to an automatic 3.90, it would give me a max top speed of: 172 MPH.

If I put the factory transmission back in the car, put the 3.90 rear end in, and took it up to 8000 RPM's, it would be 216 MPH.

The difference is that the GURU box is a nice close ratio to keep me in the power band at all times. I may not be the fastest top end car in that setup, but I sure can get there quick!

 

Mazda won LeMans in 1991 because there were a record number of cars that did not finish the race that year.

Actually, there were rotary powered cars competing for the next several years.

Do some research before you blindly repeat what you heard from someone else.

 

You don't need two big turbos. You can do it with one single. Just have to turn the boost up further than what most are willing to do.

 

Learning to spell "concerned" might help too. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

Well I don't pretend to be one of the "big guys" tuning 600+ cars, but I do know from experience hanging around here, that when you cross over around 450-500 rwhp, you are getting into the race gas arena.

To make that power, you're going to be running a lot more boost, and more boost = more heat. And we all know that hot intake temps are a big contributor towards detonation.

Race gas burns more slowly and helps you protect your engine from a detonation scenario. I guess in theory, if you had big enough *****, you could run 30 psi on pump... I wouldn't want to try it

 

Skip at KD said I can run 22lbs+ on the Microtech with their anti-det. We'll see how well that works out though.

 

You said anti-det.

 

I was under the impression race gas (110+ ocatane) burned quicker, not slower.

 

It is harder to ignite. The lower the octane, the faster it ignites and more bang. The reason why people run "race gas" of high octane is to prevent it from igniting from the heat, or from the plug going off early, etc.

 

Hey! It's not permanent. They were pushy about it so I figured I'd atleast give it a try.

 

And I meant to put T04R, not T04E. My bad. But now that I think about it, 600whp would be a lot easier to achieve on a T51R.

Now can anyone offer proof on this race gas thing? The cars are capable of amazing amounts of boost. Now, I know on a piston car the only real reason to run race gas is to handle some insane amount of boost or if youre running very high compression. A T51R wouldnt have to try hard on 20lbs of boost to really get the hp #'s up there. So why the need for the race gas? I know rotaries are a bit different than piston cars, but if a 13b can handle 20lbs on pump gas why does it really matter what turbo? Does the amount of air really effect what kind of gas you use?

 

A few things..

1) You can run 5 psi on a T51R, or any turbo. But why? The efficency is way out of the islands.

2) In general, the more boost you run, the more heat is generated. The more heat that is generated, more potential for the gas to ignite. If the gas ignites too early, you have pre-ignition, which is what blows your apex seals out. As a safety measure, people typically will only run pump gas (remember, ignites easier) up till 15 psi (some take it higher, but with more risk). Once people go past this mark, the pump gas becomes unstable and tends to ignite upon entering the chamber. Thus, people use "race gas" which has a higher octane (ignites less-easy) which allows for a normal cycle of combustion.

3) Just because the turbo is large, doesn't mean that at 10 psi it will make more power than a smaller turbo at the same psi. You need to look at turbo efficency, which is a whole seperate subject.

 

...Not for long...