Well I was out driving today, hit up a backroad... Afterwards the idle was a little rough, rasied it up in the PFC and it helped some. When I started the car up later I noticed it sounded different when cranked. Then I was like wtf is my motor gone?!?! Talked to a few friends about it and it seems pretty much like one of my side seals went out on me. The car is fine over 1000rpms but under it gets really lumpy. How much damage can be done driving like this? I still dont know if I should get a seal kit or a mazda reman. I havent shopped around much so far. I would like to port the motor but taking apart a mazda reman would almost be pointless. There wasn't much milage on the motor but I dont want to end up paying for new housings/rotors. What do you guys suggest? Any deals on motors out there?

Thanks,
Chris

 

Wait a sec...uh...you mean your motor only lasted 12,000 miles? Wow..that absolutely sucks even for a reman...was your PFC tuned correctly?

Most engine rebuilders replace the housings, I believe...my housings were included in my price of 2495 for a 5yr/60k rebuild. I don't see why it would be such a big deal to have a reman rebuilt and ported..it's still an ENGINE even if it's been remanufactured.

 

I would really not drive it if a side seal went out, your asking for new turbos and housings if you do this but you already know that. What A/F ratio are you running, even the strongest V-8 much less a rotary will explode without tuning.

Hopefully its an easy/simple fix.


BTW: how lumpy is lumpy?

 

I just got a reman from gotham racing, but I had them take it apart and port it. When they took it apart they found some of the seals were not within tolerances so they fixed that. I would be scared to get a reman, especially after hearing this one went out after 12,000 miles.

 

umm well.... it was base mod maps but people on the forum ran that fine with the mods I was running. Just K&N, 3" exhaust, non-seq. I think the install job on the motor was really crappy when I bought it. It ran fine, just found shaddy stuff when working on the car. I dont want to drive the car much but if I am getting a mazda reman then all that will be replaced. So housings... side and rotor housings would be damaged? The turbos were old... since the motor is comming out those will be replaced with some slightly used ones setup with full non-seq.

The idle is lumpy from like 600-700 at around 900 it is smooth as hell. Motor/car gets shakey and sounds almost like its limpin.

Thanks for the quick info guys

 

that sucks, hope the best for you.

 

hey man, have you checked your plugs. maybe you just fouled the **** out of them. i hope you can atleast hold mazda to their motor if it comes to the worst. double and triple check everything. i have a mazda reman that i have had nothing with trouble with until just recently. thats what i get for buying a car that mazda put the motor in
kris

 

I agree on the check the plugs now if you havnt. Also, might as well get a tester and do a compression test. Though I'm not sure exactly how much you should expect to pay for one.

 

3 inch exhaust, does that mean DP, MP and catback or just a catback?

Tim

 

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you have vacuum and idle that are oscillating at a small even rate you probably have a cracked seal/seals. This can usually be chalked up to a bad tank of gas (octane not as high as quoted) or improper tuning. The longer you drive on this motor the more damage you are doing to your rotor housing. Rebuilding this motor could be as cheap as replacing all of the seals in the motor. If you continue to drive on this you can groove your housing, or even more likely have the seal let go all together and ruin your turbos. Your car will still boost just fine, so don't be fooled by that. (although boosting can/will cause the seal to let go) Cracked seals can be very sneaky, and generally we will all tend to grasp for the "maybe it's something else" answer to the problem.

Use this advice as you will....

 

the oracle has spoken. makes me want to watch matrix again.
kris

 

 

Average driver putss 14-16k on a car yearly... didnt even last you the average year.... damn.

 

First things first.... get a compression test so you know for sure without a doubt that its the engine. If it IS the engine then you need to do some trouble shooting to try and figure out what the problem was. What were your air intake temps, what was your boost? What fuel mods do you have if any? How long has it been since you changed your fuel filter?

There are many reasons that detonation can happen and magic or a bad tank of gas is usually not one of them. The reason people keep blowing one seal after another is that they usually just fix the engine.....and not the problem

Anyway, get your a compression test and go from there

ALSO- If you have a Mazda reman, dont they have a 12000 mile warrenty???

STEPHEN

 

Yes, I believe it's 12,000 miles or one year (which ever happens first).

 

So all of your constant denouncing of rotary engines is caused by you blowing a motor running a POS piggy-back ecu? Next time, run a real engine computer...

 

**** it, if you are getting a reman and new to you turbos then drive the **** out of it. Who cares what happens to the internals. Don't rule out the possibility that its just dirty injectors or fouled plugs though. Get it checked out.

My motor does the same thing right now, don't feel too bad.

 

yeah well its been two years... dont drive the car too much......

I will check the plugs... but I really have a bad feeling ya know? the oracle put up some good advice. I cant really drive the car... so I guess I will start to pull **** out.

I mean I am pretty sure the motor install was crappy.... stock injectors with a midpipe didnt help too much.... lack of tuning... and stock IC probably had the intake temps up.

One big question IF the plugs are fouled, would it sound lumpy when cranking? the plugs dont have anything to do with cranking it. Ray at PFS said it was broke as soon as he heard it crank, the 10 seconds or whatever it takes a motor to turnover.

The fuel filter was fine K&N recently installed.... injector duty peaked out at 80% after the run, I usually check my peaks on the PFC after I beat it somewhat hard.

I think I am going to get a seal kit for like 900$, reuse what I can... upgrade to 1600cc injectors, pump, regulator, ect. Large SMIC and a slightly used set of turbos (ceramic coat, full nonseq, maybe clip turbines) Tuning is the only next issue, probably datalogit and some 4am 3rd gear pulls. I think one of my friends will give me a hand with a datalogit and wideband.

 

Yeah reman is costly... but if I was I would drive the **** out of it. I dont think I will have it down at MADS...

 

I chipped tips on 3 apex seals. 2 on the rear 1 on the front, I couldn't tell any difference in pulses between faces or rotors by the sound alone. Compression test with a cheezy Craftsman pressure tester quickly convinced me the problem was internal.

7sins what boost level were you boosting to? As mentioned earlier you have a full 3" exhaust so it's quite possible your boost crept into a dangerous area of the base map.

I have very little confidence in the Apex'i ignition maps. Yea others did it fine, but did they do it for 12K miles without tuning & fuel support?

Get a better fuel pump, port the wastegate on your new turbos, redesign your ignition maps so you have a consistant split, & have the the wideband O2 tuned right after engine break-in.

Good luck, & sorry to hear about your mis-fortune.
Eric.

 

Double

 

the FD core that i want to rebuild. its actually cheaper to just get the reman.... sucks to hear it. i have an idea for you. i'm gonna pm you

 

Stephen (SPOautos) is right about the compression test. Unless you have a trained ear it can be very difficult to diagnose a cracked seal, and I can tell you right now diagnosing a cracked seal over the phone is unlikely at best. I remember one incident where Steve (Pluto) was listening to compression over the phone, and said he thought the motor was good, but couldn't be sure. As soon as he got to the car it took him 3 seconds to determine it had a cracked seal. As for a bad tank of gas, I'll admit it's unlikely. Although I did recently blow a v8 350 motor in my 68 Chevy truck due to bad gas. (And you know gas has to be bad to blow that motor. It'll run on anything. Hell I could probably just run it on CocaCola. Luckily it was just the head gasket.)That was kind of my diplomatic way of implying it was probably the tuning. I have no idea who did your tuning, but I don't want to make any unfounded claims.
One thing you may want to check is your ignition maps. We're seeing a lot of blown motors lately from "unwise" split timely. As Stephen says though, check your entire fuel and ignition system. I wouldn't blame the problem on the motor. Your smoking gun most likely lies elsewhere.

 

I pulled out the plugs... none look wet or fouled, the leading on the front rotor was a little white...... I cranked the car and felt air comming out on both rotors, It didnt seem like it was missing a beat. Probably just a little compression drop on one side.

 

definately get a good compression check. i know rick at ricks rotary can ear a bad apex seal, but the average joe cant. keep us informed.
kris