Modified Magazine Tuner Shootout - Street car ONLY!!
shipping is around $1000
tranny from gnx7 $2000
clutch from spec $1700
driveshaft from Hinson $500
Axles from DSS $1800
Diff brace from Samberg $600
Diff (kaaz,carbonetics, cusco) $1000
shifter $250
labor xxxxxxx
tranny from gnx7 $2000
clutch from spec $1700
driveshaft from Hinson $500
Axles from DSS $1800
Diff brace from Samberg $600
Diff (kaaz,carbonetics, cusco) $1000
shifter $250
labor xxxxxxx
Jonathan, do you think I could get by with just the DSS chromoly axles for $600 versus the complete "pro" axles for $1,800? And for the diff brace, I'm assuming my Banzai Racing unit would still work?
Does anyone have advice on which 3" high flow cat flows the best? I don't care so much about it's actual catalytic performance.
Looks like it should be metal for a rotary, can anyone find something that flows better than this? http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/...6647&fromsla=T
Looks like it should be metal for a rotary, can anyone find something that flows better than this? http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/...6647&fromsla=T
Last edited by TwinCharged RX7; Feb 15, 2012 at 05:40 PM.
Last edited by calculon; Feb 15, 2012 at 06:22 PM.
hahahah i stopped reading after this:
IMO 95% people who mod there car get rid of their cat first....... lol
To measure what we consider two of the most important aspects of any street driven tuner car, we’ve added an emissions component (using a tailpipe sniffer) and an exhaust sound level component (using a dB meter) to the dyno competition. As a result, the winner of the dyno competition may not be the team with the most powerful engine, but rather the team with the best combination of power, low emissions and legal exhaust dB.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 488
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From: Sarasota FL
Does anyone have advice on which 3" high flow cat flows the best? I don't care so much about it's actual catalytic performance.
Looks like it should be metal for a rotary, can anyone find something that flows better than this? http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/...6647&fromsla=T
Looks like it should be metal for a rotary, can anyone find something that flows better than this? http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/...6647&fromsla=T
Here is what I recommend for the 3 inch:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i00_details
It's essentially the same as the one you are looking at and who knows, maybe Verocious buys them from Magnaflow?
I went with a 200 cell unit because it will control emissions but the best flowing ones are 100 cell units like this one:
http://performancepeddlerwholesale.c...T_ID=SUP200605
They will flow better than the 200 cell units but won't do much for emissions.
Now the actual "best" are probably the SMB units recommended by Dale Clark. He used them with really good success. But these would be more for having on your car permanently.
And ideally, you'd place the CAT right around where the mid pipe starts so you don't melt it. This is per Magnaflow.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,597
Likes: 6
From: Alabama
Dyno (25 points)
Emissions (10 points)
Drag (75 points)
Autocross (100 points)
Time Attack (100 points)
Dyno is only 25 pts and Emission is 10 pts - Not sure how they are going to rank and assign pts (I'll find out), but if you come in mid level and win both AutoX and Time Attack, someone will have a good chance of winning. I'll find out more about the point system for you guys..
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,597
Likes: 6
From: Alabama
Info about scoring..
By this type of scoring, it could come down to a close race..
Also read the fine points here... 1 pt per dB will be deducted IF your car exceeds 95dB. This means, you could win all the races but if you make 120dB, you could actually loose the race.. Since this is already a VERY close race (based on scoring system), in my opinion, noise level might come down to be one of the most important thing..
I'll do some calculation and show you guys what I mean later on the day... I have a work audit to attend
Originally Posted by Modified Mag
Scoring:
The fastest team from the Autocross and Time Attack events will be awarded 100 points. The fastest team from the Drag event will be awarded 75 points. The winner of the Dyno competition will be awarded 25 points. The winner of the emissions test competition will be awarded 15 points. All other teams will be scored as a percentage of the winning values. Finally, teams will be penalized 1 point for every dB they register over the 95 dB limit.
The points formula used for the three timed events is as follows:
(Winning car’s time) ÷ (your car’s time) X (max # of points for the event)
Example 1 – the winning 1/4-mile time is 10.998 seconds and your car posts a best of 12.327 seconds. As a result your car will be awarded 66.914 points (10.998/12.327*75).
Example 2 – the fastest Autocross time is 42.025 seconds and your car posts a best time of 47.899 seconds. As a result, your car will be awarded 87.736 points (42.025/47.899*100).
Example 3 – the fastest Time Attack lap time is 65.351 seconds and your car turns a best lap time of 67.012. As a result your car will be awarded 97.521 points (65.351/67.012*100).
We feel this system is fairest because it recognizes gaps in speed, unlike a system where 100 points is awarded for 1st, 80 points for 2nd, 70 points for 3rd, 60 points for 4th, etc. Under our system, if you win an event by a large margin you will score proportionately more points in that event than your competitors.
Dyno & Emissions Competition: Since this is a non-timed event, we will be using our usual ‘Power Under The Curve’ method. For the purposes of this competition, we define this as the sum of all HP readings produced on the dyno in 100 RPM increments for the best 3,000 rpm range for your engine. By totaling power in this way, we will be evaluating how much useable power each engine produces in the RPM range it’s most likely to be operating in during the timed events.
Example: The most powerful car posts a power under the curve value of 20,000 HP (in its best 3000 RPM range in 100 RPM increments). They are awarded 25 points for this part of the event. Your car posts 18,000 HP under the curve. As a result, your car will be awarded 22.5 points (18000/20000*25) for this part of the event.
Emissions Test: While your car is still on the dyno (immediately after your final dyno run), we will measure HC, CO and NOx. This will be done using a 5-gas tailpipe analyzer during a 90-second idle test (approx. 900 RPM) followed by a 90-second 3000 RPM 100 lb/ft (as measured on the dyno) test. Your car’s HC and NOx readings (in ppm) will be totaled and the team with the lowest overall emissions will be the winner and receive the maximum 10 points for the event. CO will be recorded and reported on in the story so that readers see all three gases normally included in an e-test, but we won’t be using CO for scoring.
Example: The cleanest car registers HC of 10ppm and NOx of 15ppm during the idle test and HC of 15ppm and NOx of 25ppm during the 3000 RPM loaded test for a total emissions test value of 65ppm. As a result this car is awarded 10 points. Your car registers HC of 14ppm and NOx of 21 at idle and HC of 20ppm and NOx of 44ppm at 3000 RPM for a total of 99ppm. As a result, your car is awarded 6.6 points (65/99*10) for this event.
Exhaust dB Test: Once the emissions test is complete we will measure exhaust dB the same way the state of California does, where the legal limit is 95 dB. Teams will lose 1 point from their Shootout total for every dB they exceed this limit. The dB test will be done as follows:
The dB meter microphone shall be at the same height as the exhaust outlet and no closer to the pavement than 8’’ when the exhaust outlet is lower than this height. The microphone shall be positioned with its longitudinal axis parallel to the ground, 20’’ (+/- 1’’) from the nearest edge of the exhaust outlet and 45 degrees (+/- 10 degrees) from the axis of the outlet. The engine shall be at a normal running temperature with the transmission in neutral. The test shall be made at an average steady-state engine speed of three-quarters of maximum rpm.
The Classes:
All teams will compete head-to-head for the Overall Champion trophy. Trophies will also be awarded to the highest scoring AWD, RWD and FWD teams.
The fastest team from the Autocross and Time Attack events will be awarded 100 points. The fastest team from the Drag event will be awarded 75 points. The winner of the Dyno competition will be awarded 25 points. The winner of the emissions test competition will be awarded 15 points. All other teams will be scored as a percentage of the winning values. Finally, teams will be penalized 1 point for every dB they register over the 95 dB limit.
The points formula used for the three timed events is as follows:
(Winning car’s time) ÷ (your car’s time) X (max # of points for the event)
Example 1 – the winning 1/4-mile time is 10.998 seconds and your car posts a best of 12.327 seconds. As a result your car will be awarded 66.914 points (10.998/12.327*75).
Example 2 – the fastest Autocross time is 42.025 seconds and your car posts a best time of 47.899 seconds. As a result, your car will be awarded 87.736 points (42.025/47.899*100).
Example 3 – the fastest Time Attack lap time is 65.351 seconds and your car turns a best lap time of 67.012. As a result your car will be awarded 97.521 points (65.351/67.012*100).
We feel this system is fairest because it recognizes gaps in speed, unlike a system where 100 points is awarded for 1st, 80 points for 2nd, 70 points for 3rd, 60 points for 4th, etc. Under our system, if you win an event by a large margin you will score proportionately more points in that event than your competitors.
Dyno & Emissions Competition: Since this is a non-timed event, we will be using our usual ‘Power Under The Curve’ method. For the purposes of this competition, we define this as the sum of all HP readings produced on the dyno in 100 RPM increments for the best 3,000 rpm range for your engine. By totaling power in this way, we will be evaluating how much useable power each engine produces in the RPM range it’s most likely to be operating in during the timed events.
Example: The most powerful car posts a power under the curve value of 20,000 HP (in its best 3000 RPM range in 100 RPM increments). They are awarded 25 points for this part of the event. Your car posts 18,000 HP under the curve. As a result, your car will be awarded 22.5 points (18000/20000*25) for this part of the event.
Emissions Test: While your car is still on the dyno (immediately after your final dyno run), we will measure HC, CO and NOx. This will be done using a 5-gas tailpipe analyzer during a 90-second idle test (approx. 900 RPM) followed by a 90-second 3000 RPM 100 lb/ft (as measured on the dyno) test. Your car’s HC and NOx readings (in ppm) will be totaled and the team with the lowest overall emissions will be the winner and receive the maximum 10 points for the event. CO will be recorded and reported on in the story so that readers see all three gases normally included in an e-test, but we won’t be using CO for scoring.
Example: The cleanest car registers HC of 10ppm and NOx of 15ppm during the idle test and HC of 15ppm and NOx of 25ppm during the 3000 RPM loaded test for a total emissions test value of 65ppm. As a result this car is awarded 10 points. Your car registers HC of 14ppm and NOx of 21 at idle and HC of 20ppm and NOx of 44ppm at 3000 RPM for a total of 99ppm. As a result, your car is awarded 6.6 points (65/99*10) for this event.
Exhaust dB Test: Once the emissions test is complete we will measure exhaust dB the same way the state of California does, where the legal limit is 95 dB. Teams will lose 1 point from their Shootout total for every dB they exceed this limit. The dB test will be done as follows:
The dB meter microphone shall be at the same height as the exhaust outlet and no closer to the pavement than 8’’ when the exhaust outlet is lower than this height. The microphone shall be positioned with its longitudinal axis parallel to the ground, 20’’ (+/- 1’’) from the nearest edge of the exhaust outlet and 45 degrees (+/- 10 degrees) from the axis of the outlet. The engine shall be at a normal running temperature with the transmission in neutral. The test shall be made at an average steady-state engine speed of three-quarters of maximum rpm.
The Classes:
All teams will compete head-to-head for the Overall Champion trophy. Trophies will also be awarded to the highest scoring AWD, RWD and FWD teams.
Also read the fine points here... 1 pt per dB will be deducted IF your car exceeds 95dB. This means, you could win all the races but if you make 120dB, you could actually loose the race.. Since this is already a VERY close race (based on scoring system), in my opinion, noise level might come down to be one of the most important thing..
I'll do some calculation and show you guys what I mean later on the day... I have a work audit to attend
I didn't see anything regulating gas, correct?
My customer is in, but to make 500+rwhp with a cat is going to take 100 octane.
Waiting on the other pictures from him to post up. I think this car will do well; GTX35R with a Tial 1.03 makes full boost by 3200rpms, and the car is setup for this track..
Makes me glad he went with the waste-gate reroute..
My customer is in, but to make 500+rwhp with a cat is going to take 100 octane.
Waiting on the other pictures from him to post up. I think this car will do well; GTX35R with a Tial 1.03 makes full boost by 3200rpms, and the car is setup for this track..
Makes me glad he went with the waste-gate reroute..
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,597
Likes: 6
From: Alabama
I didn't see anything regulating gas, correct?
My customer is in, but to make 500+rwhp with a cat is going to take 100 octane.
Waiting on the other pictures from him to post up. I think this car will do well; GTX35R with a Tial 1.03 makes full boost by 3200rpms, and the car is setup for this track..
Makes me glad he went with the waste-gate reroute..
My customer is in, but to make 500+rwhp with a cat is going to take 100 octane.
Waiting on the other pictures from him to post up. I think this car will do well; GTX35R with a Tial 1.03 makes full boost by 3200rpms, and the car is setup for this track..
Makes me glad he went with the waste-gate reroute..
Make sure the car is quiet
I just verified with Modified and no points will be gain below 95dB and points will be taken away after 95dB.Here is a dB comparison chart..
http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html
Since fuel mileage is not part of the equation...
Seems E85 is the way to go. That plus very short rear gears (e.g. 4.77)
A Cat and e85 with a proper tune for each objective.
Then you just need a hot shoe... or two
There are national caliber auto-x guys on this board.
Drag, road course and dyno tuning expert ... Pluto?
Seems E85 is the way to go. That plus very short rear gears (e.g. 4.77)
A Cat and e85 with a proper tune for each objective.
Then you just need a hot shoe... or two
There are national caliber auto-x guys on this board.
Drag, road course and dyno tuning expert ... Pluto?
They are also adjusting the rules to be more specific. Auxiliary injection is acceptable, as long as primary fuel is from the OEM gas tank, then meth injection as auxiliary at high boost is fine. So 93 octane and meth injection will be better than E85.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,597
Likes: 6
From: Alabama
Here is what the test from National Renewable Energy Laboratory shows compare to E85 vs. Gasoline.
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/vehi...sions_e85.html
HC is 18% difference
NOx is 52% difference
Those are the two numbers they really care about.. also combine with right tune, E85, 2-3 rotor FI RX7 should do really well!!