Measuring Engine Temps: Expert Opinions Needed
08-03-10, 06:02 AM
#26
The location you have your gauge is the best; it reflects the engine operating temperature and that's what is important. You could obtain post radiator temp for information on how effective your cooling system is but to evaluate you would need much more info like water flow rate (hugely affects heat rejection in the radiator) system pressure and the exact BTU capacity of your coolant mixture. In the end unless you are a numbers cruncher it's gee whiz only. The only additional temperature I would be interested in is oil temp as (from what I understand) 20% of the engine's cooling is from the oil system and the oil operating temp is directly related to turbo life. BTW, is your turbo's bearing housing water cooled? If not I would definately hook it up to the engine's cooiing system (I'm sure the provisions are there).
I live East of Orlando on Merritt Island and a couple of weeks ago and ran some solo2. Drove 50 miles there, ran hard five runs and drove home and with AC on 92 - 95C, AC off 95-101C. Stock cooling system except for a Koyo Rad. My sensor (PLX) is exactly where yours is. I had a good log of the temperature but can't find it now....
I live East of Orlando on Merritt Island and a couple of weeks ago and ran some solo2. Drove 50 miles there, ran hard five runs and drove home and with AC on 92 - 95C, AC off 95-101C. Stock cooling system except for a Koyo Rad. My sensor (PLX) is exactly where yours is. I had a good log of the temperature but can't find it now....
My oil temps are always below my cooling temps and run anywhere from a few degrees cooler to at times up to 10*C lower. On Saturday, my quick review of oil temps showed them to be around 88*C. From what I have seen this is good but then again I have two pretty big oil coolers.
Don't think the turbo is water cooled.
08-03-10, 06:55 PM
#27
So with your AC on, the temps go down? Mine is the opposite and that is when the temps go up to the range you list. When off, it's around or slightly below what you have. Interesting.
My oil temps are always below my cooling temps and run anywhere from a few degrees cooler to at times up to 10*C lower. On Saturday, my quick review of oil temps showed them to be around 88*C. From what I have seen this is good but then again I have two pretty big oil coolers.
Don't think the turbo is water cooled.
My oil temps are always below my cooling temps and run anywhere from a few degrees cooler to at times up to 10*C lower. On Saturday, my quick review of oil temps showed them to be around 88*C. From what I have seen this is good but then again I have two pretty big oil coolers.
Don't think the turbo is water cooled.
AC on and ECU demanding engine cooling has Relays 1, 2, and 4 on and fans are on medium. Engine should run generally cooler with AC on.
Impressed with the oil temps; I have the dual factory ones and not quite there on temps.
Dave - I'd really look into getting the water jacket on the turbo connected. These days almost all turbocharger middle sections have provisions for water cooling. Your turbo will love you much longer; consider the heat that blanket is baking into the bearing and oil.
08-03-10, 09:41 PM
#28
David,
just a thought, but your cooling system may benefit from a true engineering methodology. "Bench-racing" is sometimes just too expensive and aggravating!
That is, determine how much BTU's your engine is producing; determine your parameters, e.g., worst case air temperature + humidity and air flow (zero because of stop & go Orlando traffic!), size/volume limitations, plus the possibility of an A/C condenser in front), and then fabricate the radiator, fans, water-injection, cooling-vents, etc. necessary to give you a margin of error in your favor.
FWIW, the stock 13b with stock boost, has a heat dissipation capacity of 167,440 KJ/hour; (or 40,000 kilocalories/hour) per 1993 Service Manual.
You now have an additional rotor, greater boost, etc. Are the oil-coolers also up to the task ?
Seems this would make a great engineering project for a college student . . .
IMHO, your current monitoring location is fine.
Hope it helps,
:-) neil
just a thought, but your cooling system may benefit from a true engineering methodology. "Bench-racing" is sometimes just too expensive and aggravating!
That is, determine how much BTU's your engine is producing; determine your parameters, e.g., worst case air temperature + humidity and air flow (zero because of stop & go Orlando traffic!), size/volume limitations, plus the possibility of an A/C condenser in front), and then fabricate the radiator, fans, water-injection, cooling-vents, etc. necessary to give you a margin of error in your favor.
FWIW, the stock 13b with stock boost, has a heat dissipation capacity of 167,440 KJ/hour; (or 40,000 kilocalories/hour) per 1993 Service Manual.
You now have an additional rotor, greater boost, etc. Are the oil-coolers also up to the task ?
Seems this would make a great engineering project for a college student . . .
IMHO, your current monitoring location is fine.
Hope it helps,
:-) neil
08-03-10, 11:33 PM
#29
David,
....Again, I think a Vmount would definitely helped, based on my experience and the experiece of others here in AZ who switched from front mounts to vmounts, but how much improvement would you see? I'd say maybe 5 to 10C, which would still leave you in the 90C range....
....Again, I think a Vmount would definitely helped, based on my experience and the experiece of others here in AZ who switched from front mounts to vmounts, but how much improvement would you see? I'd say maybe 5 to 10C, which would still leave you in the 90C range....
I will go one step further and say the a properly executed V-mount will allow you to hold the engine coolant outlet temps within a few degrees of thermostat opening. And that includes high ambient temps with the A/C on. I know this based on actual, personal experience. It just fixes so many things; I would not build another FD without one.
08-04-10, 12:02 AM
#30
not to hijack the thread, as i've been looking around a bit, but at what point with coolant temps should one be worried? I was measuring with my PFC commander at my last lapping day. I have a 2 1/2" core aluminum rad, running 50/50 because i'm in Ontario, Canada, so winters are a pain (not that I drive it then).
Coolant temps according to the PFC's max value was 113C. That was the highest I saw. Ambient was about 28C
I'm pretty sure I need to figure out some ducting to improve things. The rad is in a stock mount, with the stock undertray.
When i'm cruising, I'm between 85 and 90C, generally.
Matt
Coolant temps according to the PFC's max value was 113C. That was the highest I saw. Ambient was about 28C
I'm pretty sure I need to figure out some ducting to improve things. The rad is in a stock mount, with the stock undertray.
When i'm cruising, I'm between 85 and 90C, generally.
Matt
08-04-10, 07:26 AM
#31
AC on has Fan Relay 1 on and fans are on low.
AC on and ECU demanding engine cooling has Relays 1, 2, and 4 on and fans are on medium. Engine should run generally cooler with AC on.
Impressed with the oil temps; I have the dual factory ones and not quite there on temps.
Dave - I'd really look into getting the water jacket on the turbo connected. These days almost all turbocharger middle sections have provisions for water cooling. Your turbo will love you much longer; consider the heat that blanket is baking into the bearing and oil.
AC on and ECU demanding engine cooling has Relays 1, 2, and 4 on and fans are on medium. Engine should run generally cooler with AC on.
Impressed with the oil temps; I have the dual factory ones and not quite there on temps.
Dave - I'd really look into getting the water jacket on the turbo connected. These days almost all turbocharger middle sections have provisions for water cooling. Your turbo will love you much longer; consider the heat that blanket is baking into the bearing and oil.
I'll check into the turbo water jacket.
David,
just a thought, but your cooling system may benefit from a true engineering methodology. "Bench-racing" is sometimes just too expensive and aggravating!
That is, determine how much BTU's your engine is producing; determine your parameters, e.g., worst case air temperature + humidity and air flow (zero because of stop & go Orlando traffic!), size/volume limitations, plus the possibility of an A/C condenser in front), and then fabricate the radiator, fans, water-injection, cooling-vents, etc. necessary to give you a margin of error in your favor.
FWIW, the stock 13b with stock boost, has a heat dissipation capacity of 167,440 KJ/hour; (or 40,000 kilocalories/hour) per 1993 Service Manual.
You now have an additional rotor, greater boost, etc. Are the oil-coolers also up to the task ?
Seems this would make a great engineering project for a college student . . .
IMHO, your current monitoring location is fine.
Hope it helps,
:-) neil
just a thought, but your cooling system may benefit from a true engineering methodology. "Bench-racing" is sometimes just too expensive and aggravating!
That is, determine how much BTU's your engine is producing; determine your parameters, e.g., worst case air temperature + humidity and air flow (zero because of stop & go Orlando traffic!), size/volume limitations, plus the possibility of an A/C condenser in front), and then fabricate the radiator, fans, water-injection, cooling-vents, etc. necessary to give you a margin of error in your favor.
FWIW, the stock 13b with stock boost, has a heat dissipation capacity of 167,440 KJ/hour; (or 40,000 kilocalories/hour) per 1993 Service Manual.
You now have an additional rotor, greater boost, etc. Are the oil-coolers also up to the task ?
Seems this would make a great engineering project for a college student . . .
IMHO, your current monitoring location is fine.
Hope it helps,
:-) neil
Maybe I can get a few UNF engineering students to tackle the issue?Look forward to catching up soon.
I agree with this. A properly designed and installed V-mount changes the entire equation--because you are able to move an adequate volume of air. (Most front mounts I've seen are generally marginal at best.)
I will go one step further and say the a properly executed V-mount will allow you to hold the engine coolant outlet temps within a few degrees of thermostat opening. And that includes high ambient temps with the A/C on. I know this based on actual, personal experience. It just fixes so many things; I would not build another FD without one.
I will go one step further and say the a properly executed V-mount will allow you to hold the engine coolant outlet temps within a few degrees of thermostat opening. And that includes high ambient temps with the A/C on. I know this based on actual, personal experience. It just fixes so many things; I would not build another FD without one.
08-04-10, 08:04 AM
#32
Coolant temps according to the PFC's max value was 113C. That was the highest I saw. Ambient was about 28C
I'm pretty sure I need to figure out some ducting to improve things. The rad is in a stock mount, with the stock undertray.
When i'm cruising, I'm between 85 and 90C, generally.
Matt
I'm pretty sure I need to figure out some ducting to improve things. The rad is in a stock mount, with the stock undertray.
When i'm cruising, I'm between 85 and 90C, generally.
Matt
Eric
08-05-10, 05:48 PM
#34
If I am correct about this, then the PLX will read what the Microtech is seeing and that is 4-5*C LOWER than what I am getting with the PLX which would put me in the 95*C range at the upper limits and I'll take that all day long in 100*F temps and 99+ humidity.
As Kilo says, we'll see
But there still is one question no one has answered yet: What are the temp differences when measuring from the stock location of the back left driver's side of the engine versus my location of the front right, just out of the engine? There has to be a difference isn't there? If so, how much? The coolant would have just entered the engine on the stock side versus being heated up on the pre-radiator side. Does anyone kow the answer to this?
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