Mazda reman observations
12-20-07, 10:45 PM
#1
Original Gangster/Rotary!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (213)
Mazda reman observations
Hey guys (and gals),
Ihor and I just tore down, ported (our single turbo streetport), clearanced and rebuilt a mazda reman motor. Evidently they're using a new factory, and I can tell, based on the paint on the hardware, different silicone etc.
Keep in mind this is just based off of one reman so take it with a grain of salt, but I found some interesting stuff and thought I'd share. It's a good thing we tore this thing down to port it, based on what I saw I'd be a bit hesitant to just install a reman right out of the crate.
Some positives:
Most of the motor was new. New rotors, new e-shaft, new rotor housings, new rear iron, and almost all of the hardware looked brand new as well. Front and intermediate iron were used, but very little wear. Basically a brand new motor.
Some negatives:
Mazda insists on filling the motor with water when they run it at the factory, so you have to deal with the nasty looking rusty water when you drain it. I really wish they'd use coolant.
Five of the 10mm head oil pan bolts were hand tight.
One of the side seal springs was flattened on both ends.
One of the side seals was very loose, way outside of tolerance.
The rear stationary gear set screw was hand tight.
I think that's about it, but in my opinion you shouldn't find any of that stuff wrong.....Ihor and I go through each motor meticulously, to include using lock tite where appropriate, to make sure that the motor is 100% once it's built.
Ihor and I just tore down, ported (our single turbo streetport), clearanced and rebuilt a mazda reman motor. Evidently they're using a new factory, and I can tell, based on the paint on the hardware, different silicone etc.
Keep in mind this is just based off of one reman so take it with a grain of salt, but I found some interesting stuff and thought I'd share. It's a good thing we tore this thing down to port it, based on what I saw I'd be a bit hesitant to just install a reman right out of the crate.
Some positives:
Most of the motor was new. New rotors, new e-shaft, new rotor housings, new rear iron, and almost all of the hardware looked brand new as well. Front and intermediate iron were used, but very little wear. Basically a brand new motor.
Some negatives:
Mazda insists on filling the motor with water when they run it at the factory, so you have to deal with the nasty looking rusty water when you drain it. I really wish they'd use coolant.
Five of the 10mm head oil pan bolts were hand tight.
One of the side seal springs was flattened on both ends.
One of the side seals was very loose, way outside of tolerance.
The rear stationary gear set screw was hand tight.
I think that's about it, but in my opinion you shouldn't find any of that stuff wrong.....Ihor and I go through each motor meticulously, to include using lock tite where appropriate, to make sure that the motor is 100% once it's built.
12-20-07, 11:59 PM
#3
NASA TTS Build
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Rich was that the Reman motor you were tearing apart when you checked my motors compression? If it was I remember you showing me that the oil pick-up was covered in silicone which would be another negative to add.
12-21-07, 01:08 AM
#5
Rich, I'm disappointed to hear stuff like this, but at the same time, I'm not surprised. There have been a few (not many, but a few nonetheless) about ppl finding issues w/ remans. Apparently the quality control isn't what it should be (very good isn't enough; it's gotta be perfect IMO).
Thanks for bringing it to our attention!
~Ramy
PS: So in your opinion, which is the better/smarter/more financially sound route? Buy a reman, tear it down to inspect, and put back together, or start from square one and just order all new parts, and build it up?
Thanks for bringing it to our attention!
~Ramy
PS: So in your opinion, which is the better/smarter/more financially sound route? Buy a reman, tear it down to inspect, and put back together, or start from square one and just order all new parts, and build it up?
12-21-07, 02:10 AM
#6
Ramy, I say get the engine built by someone who's going to take time an spec everything.. Sometimes labor will be as much as a reman..
Rich,.. or anyone else.. Who's building the reman these days?? I've heard way back when that Mazda had 2-4 shops through out the country building engines and calling it reman??
Rich,.. or anyone else.. Who's building the reman these days?? I've heard way back when that Mazda had 2-4 shops through out the country building engines and calling it reman??
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12-21-07, 06:19 AM
#8
Banzai Racing
We see poorly assembled Mazda remans all the time. Given the nature of our business this is going to be the case, the ones that were assembled well, don't fail early. Most people do not send us perfectly good running engines for rebuild, it does happen though, as in this case where customers decide they want porting, rebuild or whatever.
Some are great, others it really makes you wonder how the parts got past any type of inspection. I have seen deep apex seal damaged rotors as well as damaged housings used in engines that had all the seals intact. As well as coolant seal retaining wall failure on a 1yr/2k mile reman. The list goes on....
It has been said before... A reman is just a rebuilt engine, some are great with lots of new parts, others are below acceptable. The cost of buying all new components and starting with brand new everything far exceeds the cost of a reman. In most cases it is less expensive to have ones current engine rebuilt, but there are times when there are far too many components that need to be replaced and you are better off starting off with a reman and hoping that you got a good one.
For example we had a customer that had a bad coolant seal, so he tried the block weld fix, this didn't work out for him so well, he over heated the engine to the piont where it warped and blew the apex seals, there was really nothing usable as far as plates, housings, rotors .... you get the picture.
Some are great, others it really makes you wonder how the parts got past any type of inspection. I have seen deep apex seal damaged rotors as well as damaged housings used in engines that had all the seals intact. As well as coolant seal retaining wall failure on a 1yr/2k mile reman. The list goes on....
It has been said before... A reman is just a rebuilt engine, some are great with lots of new parts, others are below acceptable. The cost of buying all new components and starting with brand new everything far exceeds the cost of a reman. In most cases it is less expensive to have ones current engine rebuilt, but there are times when there are far too many components that need to be replaced and you are better off starting off with a reman and hoping that you got a good one.
For example we had a customer that had a bad coolant seal, so he tried the block weld fix, this didn't work out for him so well, he over heated the engine to the piont where it warped and blew the apex seals, there was really nothing usable as far as plates, housings, rotors .... you get the picture.
12-21-07, 09:41 AM
#9
We see poorly assembled Mazda remans all the time. Given the nature of our business this is going to be the case, the ones that were assembled well, don't fail early. Most people do not send us perfectly good running engines for rebuild, it does happen though, as in this case where customers decide they want porting, rebuild or whatever.
Some are great, others it really makes you wonder how the parts got past any type of inspection. I have seen deep apex seal damaged rotors as well as damaged housings used in engines that had all the seals intact. As well as coolant seal retaining wall failure on a 1yr/2k mile reman. The list goes on....
It has been said before... A reman is just a rebuilt engine, some are great with lots of new parts, others are below acceptable. The cost of buying all new components and starting with brand new everything far exceeds the cost of a reman. In most cases it is less expensive to have ones current engine rebuilt, but there are times when there are far too many components that need to be replaced and you are better off starting off with a reman and hoping that you got a good one.
For example we had a customer that had a bad coolant seal, so he tried the block weld fix, this didn't work out for him so well, he over heated the engine to the piont where it warped and blew the apex seals, there was really nothing usable as far as plates, housings, rotors .... you get the picture.
Some are great, others it really makes you wonder how the parts got past any type of inspection. I have seen deep apex seal damaged rotors as well as damaged housings used in engines that had all the seals intact. As well as coolant seal retaining wall failure on a 1yr/2k mile reman. The list goes on....
It has been said before... A reman is just a rebuilt engine, some are great with lots of new parts, others are below acceptable. The cost of buying all new components and starting with brand new everything far exceeds the cost of a reman. In most cases it is less expensive to have ones current engine rebuilt, but there are times when there are far too many components that need to be replaced and you are better off starting off with a reman and hoping that you got a good one.
For example we had a customer that had a bad coolant seal, so he tried the block weld fix, this didn't work out for him so well, he over heated the engine to the piont where it warped and blew the apex seals, there was really nothing usable as far as plates, housings, rotors .... you get the picture.
12-21-07, 09:49 AM
#10
Oh and some of you might know my longblock is forsale and some might not... https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=714438
12-21-07, 02:25 PM
#11
Thanks for the info Rich. Timing couldn't be better. I've got my motor pulled for a coolant seal and struggling right now with the decision to rebuild what I have, or go reman. Mine wasn't THAT bad, the irons are all well within spec and the housings are maybe a 6 out of 10. I'd considered going reman for the new housings and most of the seals. Hearing all the stories I also intended to open it for inspection prior to install. The only problem with doing that is that I'm assuming warranty is gone once you open the reman up. Correct?
12-21-07, 02:39 PM
#12
Constant threat
As many of you know, I had a new Mazda reman sent to Chris (mr rx7 tt) and he tore it down, did his thing to it, and rebuilt it. From what he told me, my reman was of excellent quality overall. Lots of new parts, and the used ones were in excellent shape.
12-21-07, 06:59 PM
#13
Williams technology in South Carolina needs more rotary specialist doing these rebuilds. They also do the rebuild for Rx8 engines. Some Rx8's have had their engines replaced more than once which only leads to the perception that rotary's are unreliable. IMHO all remans most definetly need to be re-checked before installation.
12-21-07, 07:54 PM
#14
Original Gangster/Rotary!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (213)
Thanks for the info Rich. Timing couldn't be better. I've got my motor pulled for a coolant seal and struggling right now with the decision to rebuild what I have, or go reman. Mine wasn't THAT bad, the irons are all well within spec and the housings are maybe a 6 out of 10. I'd considered going reman for the new housings and most of the seals. Hearing all the stories I also intended to open it for inspection prior to install. The only problem with doing that is that I'm assuming warranty is gone once you open the reman up. Correct?
The irons tend to last for over 100k miles, but if your rotor housings are suspect you might want to look around for suitable replacements. If you want a good compression motor, that is
12-21-07, 08:24 PM
#16
~Ramy
12-21-07, 08:48 PM
#17
I've seen all sorts of mazda remans, in fact more than half of the FD engines that I get are mazda remans. Most are pretty decent, but all of then have a whole tube of white/gray or pink sealant all over them in places they shouldnt be. The front cover oilpan holes are usually stripped and the motormount bolt holes full of past sealant. The oilpan pickup is always full of sealant too.
Once I took apart an REW with a 9.7 rotor up front and a 9.0 rotor in back, guess which one blew.
I've also seen them with all seals intact, that had damaged rotorhousings from a prior incarnation. This is not absolutely unacceptable in my view, except when you consider what they charge, and that the buyer doesnt know this.
Not long ago a member of the forum contacted me about a rebuild and install on his car. He said he'd overheated it and had a bad coolant seal. He was convinced, due to reading on this forum, that his core would be absolute junk even though the engine had only sat for a couple of weeks. He wanted to buy a mazda reman, have me tear it open and port/inspect it, and install it.
Against his initial plan, I convinced him to let me tear his old core out first and find out what it looked like before he bought the reman. After all, if it did turn out to be junk, I could reassemble it and he'd be no worse off. I tore it down and everything was reuseable, so I was able to save him about 1500 bucks right then and there.
Like I told him, if you were guaranteed all new parts in a reman for $2500-3000 or whatever they go for these days, then it would be a great deal. But since you don't really know, you could be paying all that money for a new set of (improperly clearanced) seals and parts roughly equivalent to what you already have.
Once I took apart an REW with a 9.7 rotor up front and a 9.0 rotor in back, guess which one blew.
I've also seen them with all seals intact, that had damaged rotorhousings from a prior incarnation. This is not absolutely unacceptable in my view, except when you consider what they charge, and that the buyer doesnt know this.
Not long ago a member of the forum contacted me about a rebuild and install on his car. He said he'd overheated it and had a bad coolant seal. He was convinced, due to reading on this forum, that his core would be absolute junk even though the engine had only sat for a couple of weeks. He wanted to buy a mazda reman, have me tear it open and port/inspect it, and install it.
Against his initial plan, I convinced him to let me tear his old core out first and find out what it looked like before he bought the reman. After all, if it did turn out to be junk, I could reassemble it and he'd be no worse off. I tore it down and everything was reuseable, so I was able to save him about 1500 bucks right then and there.
Like I told him, if you were guaranteed all new parts in a reman for $2500-3000 or whatever they go for these days, then it would be a great deal. But since you don't really know, you could be paying all that money for a new set of (improperly clearanced) seals and parts roughly equivalent to what you already have.
01-18-08, 12:44 AM
#25
From what I understand, there used to be reman facilities in CA and FL. And something about, the employees at the CA facility were disgruntled and started turning out poor work, so then mazda changed the contract to a company in the carolinas. I've never done a ton of research on it, though.