after digging some more I found so far that the y-pipe coupler - bad, turbo control solenoid on manifold - bad, and that is so far. What exactly would it do if that solenoid is not working?

 

The turbo control solenoid is part of secondary turbo control. The Y pipe coupler will effect the entire turbo function.

 

I am testing solenoids now and they are acting different all of them. I need to double test them and make sure they are passing the test. so far, no good. another question, is the charge relief actuator suppose to hold boost pressure, cause mine was hissing and not holding pressure when I applied the mightyvac. The rod moved out and then the hissing?

 

ok I tested some solenoids, I found that the turbo control solenoid(under manifold next to ACV) is sticking shut when I hook up the pressure pump to inlet nipple and tee a gauge in between solenoid and dummy actuator, put 12v to
it and then take the power away it sticks. the wastegate/turbo precontrol solenoids are sticking (both), the charge control solenoid and double throttle solenoid are sticking. to anyone that has experience testing these solenoids, are the wastegate/ turbo precontrol solenoids supposed to hold up to 15 lbs pressure when pressurized. I hook the pump up to the A inlet nipple and then send a line from B nipple to the actuator, with a boost gauge teed in for pressure reading. I put 12v to the solenoid and pump up the pump to 15 lbs pressure, as soon as I do they start to slowly bleed out pressure before I take the 12v away.
I know they are bad cause when I remove the 12v they stick.are they supposed to hold the 15 lbs pressure without bleeding off
under these conditions? I hope that makes sense. I am thinking like a bunch of solenoids are bad, I don't know what to do. the ones that checked out so far are the purge control and turbo control solenoid (3rd one back on sol. rack). I am wondering what to do. I have contacted Ray at Malloy and the solenoids new are $50+ a piece. I have also e-mailed Rob about his custom solenoids. Any ideas?

 

anyone running the simplified sequential way (rob robinettes) I am wondering does it work the same and I am seriously thinking of doing this? I am wondering if I will have any problems with exhaust if I do simplify my system, I have a d-pipe, but regular cat?

 

Solenoids are supposed to 'stick' closed when there is no power. The inlet nipple should be closed and not leak. It sounds like you have the criteria backwards. Don't kick yourself - it took me a little practice until I was conducting the tests properly and consistently.

The testing I do works like this:
1) test coil resistance cold, at out of a 250° oven. Resistance should start at 30-40Ohms, and go up when hot but still be under 100Ohms. If the resistance goes super high in either case, discard the solenoid.
2) test each solenoid with pressure and vacuum in the reservoir, both hot and cold. I threw away any solenoid which:
- couldn't release crisply against 10psi backpressure
- couldn't release crisply against 25inHg vacuum backpressure
- would slowly leak while holding 25inHg to 10psi.

When testing hot solenoids, I kept them all in a 250° oven on a cookie sheet, wrapped in a clean towel, and removed them one-by-one for the test. They cool very fast.

The TC solenoid on the ACV operates only in vacuum, never with backpressure. So the backpressure test only gives you a relative idea how strong the spring in the solenoid is. Since this solenoid is not interchangeable with the others and especially susceptible to heatsoak, only discard it if it fails during the vacuum-loaded tests.

They're supposed to 'stick' closed when there is no voltage, and they should open (A flows to B) at 12v. So again it sounds to me like they're working just fine and you just have the test criteria backwards.

15psi is overkill unless you're running 15psi boost, but certainly they should operate crisply at 10-12psi. Unless the pc/wg solenoids fail miserably, I suggest putting them back in and take your time to look for a good used pair for cheap. They can be swapped later with minimal effort.

If you haven't removed these from the rack yet, go ahead and do it. Then test them like I said above and make sure you've got the criteria right. I'd put some tape on each one or label them in some way so you know which one is which. I'll bet when you're done you'll get only one or two that fail. Put the best solenoid (releases against 15psi backpressure) in diagram location E, and the next best in positions A, F, G, H. Those filters on the rats nest solenoids snap on/off so you can interchange any of them on the rack as needed.

Hang in there. This is the worst part, and once you do it once you know you have a baseline of good parts in there.

Dave

 

There is a Charge Relief Valve, a Charge Control Acutator, and Charge Control Valve. But not a Charge Relief Actuator (I know it's just a typo.)

The nipple on the top of the CRV (the rear plastic BOV) should not leak or hiss. If it does, replace it.

The CCA (the metal bodied actuator with the short rod, on the y-pipe) should not leak when pressure/vacuum is applied to either nipple on the actuator body. If it does, replace it.

Used replacements are easy to find. Just run a WTB in the for sale section - lots of these in peoples garages.

Dave

 

thanks Dave, I will keep testing until I know I am testing them right! I am seriously thinking of going simple sequential, does anyone not suggest this and why? BTW I did already replace turbo precontrol/wastegate solenoids (amongst others) with used ones and no luck. New ones are $50 a piece from Malloy. you can see my problem.

 

You would fail an inspection-based emissions test. I believe simplified sequential doesn't change any of the parts that affect the turbo controls, it only eliminates the others. Run a search, you'll probably find plenty of info.

If I were you I'd keep trying to test the solenoids and replace the leaking actuator.

Dave

 

which nipple should I use to apply vac.? then I want to pump it up, no voltage and it should hold vac, right? then I want to apply 12v and it should release quick? does this sound right?

hook up pump to A and then from B to dummy actuator, tee in boost gauge, then I pump it up with pressure until 10-12 lbs boost and it should hold, right? then put 12v to it and it should open and drop the pressure, correct? or I can apply vac to B nipple and it should hold the vac, then add 12v and it should release, correct? Damn this is getting confusing. I appreciate your help Dave.

Thanks, good avice.

 

other thing is on the charge control actuator I applied vac to the front nipple and it held vac, the rear nipple I applied pressure up to 15 lbs and the rod moves out and it hisses at me and the pressure starts to drop. Am I doing it wrong? do I need to apply pressure to the rear nipple and vac to the front nipple at the same time, or is it bad?

 

the B chamber on the charge control actuator (rear nipple from front of car view) does not hold pressure. It moves the actuator rod out and then hisses as I pump, no holding of pressure. The front A chamber holds vac fine. pulss the rod in when vac is applied, does this sound right?

 

Apply the vacuum to the nipple furthest from the solenoid body.
Yes, exactly.
Yes, for the wg and pc solenoids both scenarios will work. Simply put, when 12v is applied, they should click open and vent from one to the other. W/o 12v, there should be no flow across the nipples however you apply pressure or vacuum.

Dave

 

Everything but the leak. Replace this. (It's cheap on the for sale forum). It would explain the lack of primary boost if this valve isn't opening and closing at the right times.

I do find it surprising that the vacuum doesn't leak, but pressure from the opposite does leak. It should do the same thing. In any case, get another.

Dave

 

alright, Dave I tested the turbo control solenoid by putting the pump on the nipple you said, I applied 12v and 15 inhg vac and it held, then I removed 12v and it released immediately, sounds ok? All of the solenoids I have tested have not held the boost pressure, I pump them up and they slowly release. I am figuring out how to test these things right, I think, and most of them are acting good. Are they supposed to sustain the pressure applied or are they bad. On Disney's site it said they should hold for a few seconds. Maybe one or two are sticking or not releasing fast enough.I just need to do a hot test in the oven and verify. BTW I am on the look out for a new CCA.

 

can someone verify if the solenoids are supposed to maintain the pressure once pumped up with boost (dave disneys solenoid test)? None of my solenoids are holding the pressure once I pump 12 lbs pressure through the inlet valve (A) I suspect this is normal for them to slowly bleed off after a few seconds pressurized. Otherwise I got a problem.

 

ok. I verified that my Mighty Vac was leaking out pressure that is why none of solenoids would hold pressure, I got a different one and they hold pressure. I tested all 12 solenoids and found that 4 of them failed. The other 8 passed rigorous hot and cold testing. I have some new ones on the way to replace the four. Lucky for me it was not the turbo control(vacuum), turbo precontrol/wastegate solenoids. They were fine. I am in the process of waiting on my CCA and replace that, if I can figure out how to remove it. I already got a new coupler for the y-pipe and intakes. There are new couplers throughout on the car. If anyone knows how to change out the CCA the advice would be much appreciated?

 

To change the CCA you need to remove the rear half of the y-pipe and replace it as a unit with the actuator. IMO you should never try to remove only half of the y-pipe - remove the whole thing in one shot.

First you need to remove the crossover pipe, second the rear turbo inlet pipe (the funky curved one - you'll need to access it's two screws from under the car).

Now you have both the front and back half of the y-pipe accessible, and you can remove the four bolt (two at the front, two at the back). Lift both halves out together, and give them a little twist when you separate them. There is an o-ring in between which can be easily cut if you yank them apart (ask how I know). Then you can replace the whole rear half with valve and actuator as one piece.

Sounds like you're getting the knack for this solenoid testing stuff. I admit it took me a little while to get comfortable with it also. I guess you figured this out, but the pressure/vac should hold indefinitely when the solenoid is on, and should bleed out in less than a second (unless you're using a really big air reservoir on the other side). It should be easy to hear that the solenoid is snapped completely open and the air rushes out rapidly, as opposed to a slower flow that takes a moment to open up and empty at full speed.

 

Thanx to everyone here. Especially you Dave, I figured out the criteria for testing the solenoids properly and 8 out of 12 were functional. It is important to test these thoroughly. Hot and Cold tests. Refer to Dave Disney's site and FSM if you want the best info on how to do this.

 

****UPDATE****
Its all fixed, I am so f'ing happy. I changed out the CCA (big thanx to Fritz) and the 4 bad solenoids (extra big thanx to AMRAAM4). Replaced the y-pipe coupler(ripped) and intake couplers(shitty quality)with a High Temp Silicone 500 degree 4-ply couplers. Put everything back together and started her up, 12 inhg vacuum and ran nice at idle. By the way I also fixed my tachometer while I was waiting for my parts. It had been jumping and not working entirely, I found the tach removal and repair write-up and executed the removal and had an electronics repair place, resolder and replace capacitors on the tach. Walla. It works. $22.00 repair cost and less than a half an hour labor time. Hell yeah! Back to the car, I went for a drive once it reached operating temp and found that I had a normal boost pattern, maybe a little high, I am running a custom intake, DP, stock cat, my pattern is looking like 11-8-11, I am also at a very high altitude so the air up here is a little different with turbos. Anyway I owe a big thanx to anyone and everyone that contributed to this thread and my solution. MORAL OF STORY: always check every solenoid, hot and cold, when doing the hose job. I am so glad I found the problem and solved it.

 

Last but certainly not least, Thank You very much Dgessaman, Dave you are a guru, I wish I could buy you a cocktail or beer my friend. You ever need anything from me, don't hesitate to ask.

 

I'm glad you were able to solve it, and Dave is always more than helpful and patient when it comes to turbo troubleshooting. That's another point for us sequential owners!

 

BTW big thanx to Dale Clark. If you don't have some of the Viton check valves, order them now, they are working flawlessley and they fasten real good by tie wrapping them. Superior product.

 

Congratulations. It's nice to see someone solving the problem rather than running and installing a single turbo or converting to non-sequential.