M2 - ASP IC's What really happened?
05-18-04, 03:29 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
M2 - ASP IC's What really happened?
Well my attorney said I could talk about this stuff now. I'm pretty crunched for time so I'll keep it shorter than people may be used to from me : ) I thought this was particularly funny given someone recently claiming I should feel guilty for being mean to M2 after all the money I've made from them. (chuckle) Surprise! They never paid.
Back in 1997 or 1999 (I forget which) Brian from Mostly Mazda / M2 wanted to sell the ASP IC's everyone is familiar with. I had no spare time back then and was looking for a way to off load all the customer support time and honestly I was just sick of making the IC's. For my real job I own a company that has nothing at all to do with cars, the RX7 stuff has always been an advanced hobby for me. With that in mind I had Brian sign a contract specifying certain conditions, such as payment per unit sold, all substantially similar designs included, blah blah and then turned over everything, including all my vendors to him and authorized them to use my molds and metal stamps etc. for him.
It started pretty well, I had to ride him a bit for payments and a bounced check for a few thousand dollars but after a short while I began to have trouble reaching him. Once I did get hold of him I got promises to pay and small talk about all the neat things he was doing. Of course I still never got the payments. At one point I even offered to cut the payments in half so he could get current, to which he agreed, and of course never came through on. Keep in mind all this while he was making substantial amounts of money off the intercoolers. By that point in time he owed me about $15,000. Along the way I got more promises and he was even nice enough to tell me about his new race car and a new car he and his wife had bought, but of course he couldn't afford to pay me. Talk about trying to **** someone off… They owe you thousands and give hard luck stories about having no money to pay you, then they tell you about a new car they bought?
I finally got fed up in early 2003 as he then owed me almost $40,000 and turned it over to a commercial collection company in the area and cut off all the vendors from using my molds etc. He gave them a lot of sob stories including some song and dance about M2 was a different company and Mostly Mazda had gone out of business years ago along with veiled threats of bankruptcy. They gave up and turned it back to me. I then hired a local attorney in San Francisco to sue. Needless to say he tried every possible angle to weasel out of it again. As an example of how honest and fair he really wanted to be about all this, he refused to consent to my being present via telephone for the settlement hearings, even though my attorney would have been there. Nope, I had to take the time and spend the money to fly out there for a few hours of mediation. I can't give the details of the mediation since that's eternally confidential but rest assured he never complied with the settlement agreement either. Did I mention he tried counter suing for some garbage reason hoping I’d go away forgetting about all the money he owed me?
After the default I was awarded a partial judgment of $25,000 (better than nothing). In keeping with historical patterns he tried to appeal that, asking for it to be set aside for some fantasy reason, of course it was denied. Needless to say this is why I'm not covering for his crap anymore and all the screw-ups he made with my IC's along the way, a lot of it was pointless, like the end tanks on the medium IC's. This should also explain why I took back over production. If he hadn't tried to cheat me repeatedly with crap like claiming the business had closed and forcing me to fly out there for a hearing just to be a dick as well as the frivolous counter suit I never would have mentioned a word of any of this and would have just taken the heat for him. In all of this the most important part to remember is that he had actually already made and been paid for in excess of $150,000 in profit from those IC's that he still owed me $40,000 for. It was most likely that he used the intercooler success to pay for other failing aspects. I haven’t decided if I’m going to go after him for the other $15,000 yet.
To the screwball trying to make a scene over my not being so nice to M2, does that explain it? Keep quiet unless you know what you’re talking about pretty please with sugar on top.
So that’s the story of ASP and M2 in summary. I think it probably explains a lot over the past couple years. Sorry I couldn’t mention it previously.
Kevin T. Wyum
Back in 1997 or 1999 (I forget which) Brian from Mostly Mazda / M2 wanted to sell the ASP IC's everyone is familiar with. I had no spare time back then and was looking for a way to off load all the customer support time and honestly I was just sick of making the IC's. For my real job I own a company that has nothing at all to do with cars, the RX7 stuff has always been an advanced hobby for me. With that in mind I had Brian sign a contract specifying certain conditions, such as payment per unit sold, all substantially similar designs included, blah blah and then turned over everything, including all my vendors to him and authorized them to use my molds and metal stamps etc. for him.
It started pretty well, I had to ride him a bit for payments and a bounced check for a few thousand dollars but after a short while I began to have trouble reaching him. Once I did get hold of him I got promises to pay and small talk about all the neat things he was doing. Of course I still never got the payments. At one point I even offered to cut the payments in half so he could get current, to which he agreed, and of course never came through on. Keep in mind all this while he was making substantial amounts of money off the intercoolers. By that point in time he owed me about $15,000. Along the way I got more promises and he was even nice enough to tell me about his new race car and a new car he and his wife had bought, but of course he couldn't afford to pay me. Talk about trying to **** someone off… They owe you thousands and give hard luck stories about having no money to pay you, then they tell you about a new car they bought?
I finally got fed up in early 2003 as he then owed me almost $40,000 and turned it over to a commercial collection company in the area and cut off all the vendors from using my molds etc. He gave them a lot of sob stories including some song and dance about M2 was a different company and Mostly Mazda had gone out of business years ago along with veiled threats of bankruptcy. They gave up and turned it back to me. I then hired a local attorney in San Francisco to sue. Needless to say he tried every possible angle to weasel out of it again. As an example of how honest and fair he really wanted to be about all this, he refused to consent to my being present via telephone for the settlement hearings, even though my attorney would have been there. Nope, I had to take the time and spend the money to fly out there for a few hours of mediation. I can't give the details of the mediation since that's eternally confidential but rest assured he never complied with the settlement agreement either. Did I mention he tried counter suing for some garbage reason hoping I’d go away forgetting about all the money he owed me?
After the default I was awarded a partial judgment of $25,000 (better than nothing). In keeping with historical patterns he tried to appeal that, asking for it to be set aside for some fantasy reason, of course it was denied. Needless to say this is why I'm not covering for his crap anymore and all the screw-ups he made with my IC's along the way, a lot of it was pointless, like the end tanks on the medium IC's. This should also explain why I took back over production. If he hadn't tried to cheat me repeatedly with crap like claiming the business had closed and forcing me to fly out there for a hearing just to be a dick as well as the frivolous counter suit I never would have mentioned a word of any of this and would have just taken the heat for him. In all of this the most important part to remember is that he had actually already made and been paid for in excess of $150,000 in profit from those IC's that he still owed me $40,000 for. It was most likely that he used the intercooler success to pay for other failing aspects. I haven’t decided if I’m going to go after him for the other $15,000 yet.
To the screwball trying to make a scene over my not being so nice to M2, does that explain it? Keep quiet unless you know what you’re talking about pretty please with sugar on top.
So that’s the story of ASP and M2 in summary. I think it probably explains a lot over the past couple years. Sorry I couldn’t mention it previously.
Kevin T. Wyum
05-18-04, 04:31 PM
#4
BOOOYAHHHH!
damn. Wish you the best of luck!! M2.. called out :p
15K is alot of money, but after lawyer fee's and misc plane tickets... and just the shear headache.. its prolly not worth it anymore.
15K is alot of money, but after lawyer fee's and misc plane tickets... and just the shear headache.. its prolly not worth it anymore.
05-18-04, 04:36 PM
#5
no more problems, PLEASE!
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well when you sue, you can also sue in excess of what is owed to compensate for lawyer fees and other fees. i know that for a fact because i'm studying california real estate and real estate law and the aspects of a lawsuit are highly emphasized.
advice: keep your receipts kevin!! and don't let that $15,000 go so easily. you can buy another decent FD with that.
now where are we on that group buy?
advice: keep your receipts kevin!! and don't let that $15,000 go so easily. you can buy another decent FD with that.
now where are we on that group buy?
05-18-04, 04:40 PM
#6
Lives on the Forum
Damn, I knew there was a reason I didn't want to go with an M2 setup! I do have their rear strutbrace/harness bar. It's a good product despite all the trouble Kevin had with Brian.
The more I read the Forum, the more the drama unfolds!
Let's see there was the PFS thing, the Nocab72/Rx7 Store thing, Kevin vs Chuck, and now Kevin vs Brian!
The more I read the Forum, the more the drama unfolds!
Let's see there was the PFS thing, the Nocab72/Rx7 Store thing, Kevin vs Chuck, and now Kevin vs Brian!
05-18-04, 04:54 PM
#7
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SleepR1's right about the drama
You did the right thing Kevin by separating your good product from a very poorly managed company in M2. I'd definitely go after the other $15k plus w/e else you could get for the costs of ur laywer, flights, etc etc. Hope all goes well from here on out for you!
You did the right thing Kevin by separating your good product from a very poorly managed company in M2. I'd definitely go after the other $15k plus w/e else you could get for the costs of ur laywer, flights, etc etc. Hope all goes well from here on out for you!
Trending Topics
05-18-04, 04:57 PM
#8
Muah ah ha ha ha....
"The more I read the Forum, the more the drama unfolds! "
I freaking love this quote, man. Can I have it in my sig?
BTW, if you would, can you gimme some insight about Nocab72/Rx7 Store thing? Maybe via PM, so it's not being overy state.
"The more I read the Forum, the more the drama unfolds! "
I freaking love this quote, man. Can I have it in my sig?
BTW, if you would, can you gimme some insight about Nocab72/Rx7 Store thing? Maybe via PM, so it's not being overy state.
05-18-04, 05:03 PM
#9
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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So what did they do? Change the endtank design hoping they could then claim it as thier own and stick it up your *** for good?
Sounds like it
I hate to hear that man
STEPHEN
Sounds like it
I hate to hear that man
STEPHEN
05-18-04, 05:11 PM
#11
Lives on the Forum
Oh Lord, let's not bring up the Kyle Bacon vs Rx7 Store drama LOL. I promised never to repeat that story! Voted 4 stars on this thread. It's going to be good
Originally posted by POM HB
Muah ah ha ha ha....
"The more I read the Forum, the more the drama unfolds! "
I freaking love this quote, man. Can I have it in my sig?
BTW, if you would, can you gimme some insight about Nocab72/Rx7 Store thing? Maybe via PM, so it's not being overy state.
Muah ah ha ha ha....
"The more I read the Forum, the more the drama unfolds! "
I freaking love this quote, man. Can I have it in my sig?
BTW, if you would, can you gimme some insight about Nocab72/Rx7 Store thing? Maybe via PM, so it's not being overy state.
Last edited by SleepR1; 05-18-04 at 05:19 PM.
05-18-04, 06:17 PM
#15
Rotary Enthusiast
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wow.sounds like a pretty messed up situation.Sue the guy for everything he has.Thanx for sharing your experience with us.I was considering doing business with m2.Not anymore.
05-18-04, 06:40 PM
#16
None
Thread Starter
Originally posted by SPOautos
So what did they do? Change the endtank design hoping they could then claim it as thier own and stick it up your *** for good?
Sounds like it
I hate to hear that man
STEPHEN
So what did they do? Change the endtank design hoping they could then claim it as thier own and stick it up your *** for good?
Sounds like it
I hate to hear that man
STEPHEN
Kevin T. Wyum
05-18-04, 06:48 PM
#18
None
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Androidmj
which ones are the poor end tanks?
which ones are the poor end tanks?
Don't lose sleep over it but make sure to seal the gap up if you can.
Kevin T. Wyum
05-18-04, 07:34 PM
#20
Import Connoisseur
Good to know about the M2/asp intercooler story. Not to sound stupid is M2 completely closed? are the products you see floating around the forum all old product? i know there site is still up...
05-18-04, 07:34 PM
#21
Import Connoisseur
Good to know about the M2/asp intercooler story. Not to sound stupid is M2 completely closed? are the products you see floating around the forum all old product? i know there site is still up...
05-18-04, 07:48 PM
#22
M2 is the classic situation of what happens when a "shop guy" or non business person hits a gold mind. M2 products sold themselves and were of pretty high quality. People would wait months for their brake kits and still rave about them. Finally people are sick of there shitty customer service and lack of management and the shop will just die. I just think they couldn’t keep up with demand and also I am sure Brian was keeping plenty of money for himself.
It is just too bad that Kevin got involved with such a shitty shop, his product was great until they messed it up. I have the M2 medium with the wrong end tank but I still think it is a great product.
I hope you get your money and all that they owe you but the reality is you are probably screwed. I am really surprised they are still in business and have not filed for bankruptcy.
It is just too bad that Kevin got involved with such a shitty shop, his product was great until they messed it up. I have the M2 medium with the wrong end tank but I still think it is a great product.
I hope you get your money and all that they owe you but the reality is you are probably screwed. I am really surprised they are still in business and have not filed for bankruptcy.
05-18-04, 08:27 PM
#23
2/4 wheel cornering fiend
I kind of figured the M2/ASP situation was going to be somewhere along these lines, judging by the numerous horror stories of personal friends who have purchased M2 products, only to either wait forever for delivery, and/or get wrong parts and/or used/remanned parts attempting to be passed off as "new" parts. I have their CF airbox, but it was bought used. Interestingly enough, the person I bought it from said he was getting rid of it because he was tired of their BS and poor customer service.
And now, to the ASP medium/large airpump-friendly GB...how's the casting prototyping coming along, Kevin? (cue Final Jeopardy question theme song.....)
(sorry for the slight off-topic...)
And now, to the ASP medium/large airpump-friendly GB...how's the casting prototyping coming along, Kevin?
(cue Final Jeopardy question theme song.....)(sorry for the slight off-topic...)
05-18-04, 08:34 PM
#24
None
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Kento
I kind of figured the M2/ASP situation was going to be somewhere along these lines, judging by the numerous horror stories of personal friends who have purchased M2 products, only to either wait forever for delivery, and/or get wrong parts and/or used/remanned parts attempting to be passed off as "new" parts. I have their CF airbox, but it was bought used. Interestingly enough, the person I bought it from said he was getting rid of it because he was tired of their BS and poor customer service.
And now, to the ASP medium/large airpump-friendly GB...how's the casting prototyping coming along, Kevin? (cue Final Jeopardy question theme song.....)
(sorry for the slight off-topic...)
I kind of figured the M2/ASP situation was going to be somewhere along these lines, judging by the numerous horror stories of personal friends who have purchased M2 products, only to either wait forever for delivery, and/or get wrong parts and/or used/remanned parts attempting to be passed off as "new" parts. I have their CF airbox, but it was bought used. Interestingly enough, the person I bought it from said he was getting rid of it because he was tired of their BS and poor customer service.
And now, to the ASP medium/large airpump-friendly GB...how's the casting prototyping coming along, Kevin?
(cue Final Jeopardy question theme song.....)(sorry for the slight off-topic...)
The model is apparently being made as we speak on a big stereo lithography machine. It will be completed Thursday, then it's a matter of waiting for shipping time to me and test fitting, then shipping it to Jeff to test fit as well and make any changes to the images. At that point the group buy will be open and I'll be sending it all to the Foundry to begin the molds etc.
Kevin T. Wyum
05-18-04, 09:55 PM
#25
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
hi kevin,
i am happy that you have reached a point of partial closure w m2. i am also pleased that you laid the cards on the table objectively for all to see. it is also nice to see you fine tuning your IC and looking forward. i happen to think that your large IC (which i run) is the BEST IC ever offered for the fd.
here's good wishes to Kevin T Wyum, one of the most original thinkers to mess w the fd.
(just stay off the Minn streets when you are racing/beating motorcycles... i think the MPD is still looking for a black R2 with slicks)
howard coleman
i am happy that you have reached a point of partial closure w m2. i am also pleased that you laid the cards on the table objectively for all to see. it is also nice to see you fine tuning your IC and looking forward. i happen to think that your large IC (which i run) is the BEST IC ever offered for the fd.
here's good wishes to Kevin T Wyum, one of the most original thinkers to mess w the fd.
(just stay off the Minn streets when you are racing/beating motorcycles... i think the MPD is still looking for a black R2 with slicks)
howard coleman