Looking to buy an FD/auto
Love'n my 7
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 521
Likes: 0
From: YOU DONT HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW
Originally Posted by skunks
unless you want an auto, its not worth it to buy an auto and do the conversion unless the fd cost only like 2k to begin with... just find a good manual for a bit more
And I agree with you. If you want a manual buy a manual it will be cheaper in the long run.
In my experiance with buying a FD buy one that you will be happy with. I didnt think I would like the auto but after driving one for a while it was just great. Dont make a purchase on impulse wait and keep looking. Try to stay away from the jones. I wanted a manual when I first started looking but all the manuals that I found where beat to hell and totaly trashed, and they wanted way to much for them. I wasnt going to buy a peice of ****. I waited and found the one I bought almost 6 months later and it was the auto I comprimised becuse the car is in excellent shape with black interior (I dont care for the tan). People knock the auto but take one out and street race it and let me know what you think. It is a dominating car that will keep you pined in your seat.
Love'n my 7
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 521
Likes: 0
From: YOU DONT HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW
Originally Posted by 93silverbullet
Actually the auto has a higher top end speed due to the diff. gearing (Auto -3.90 vs. Manual - 4.10).
Theoretical for the Auto is 192mph and I believe the Manual is 184 (correct me if I'm wrong here on these numbers).
Theoretical for the Auto is 192mph and I believe the Manual is 184 (correct me if I'm wrong here on these numbers).
Yes in theory. And what people need to understand is that 4.10:1 is not that much lower than 3.90:1. Not that it wont make a diff it will but not the dergree that most peolpe here think it does. 3.90s are real close to the 4s and 4.10s are just as close to being 3s as the 3.90s are to 4s. Its not the diff between 4.10s and 4.56.
WWFSMD
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,035
Likes: 4
From: SoCal
Max wheel RPM (= speed) for each transmission type:
AUTO: 7000 engine RPM / (0.694 4th gear * 3.909 final) = 2580 wheel RPM
MANUAL: 8000 engine RPM / (0.719 5th gear * 4.100 final) = 2714 wheel RPM
However, I don't think is a very significant feature unless you are going for land speed records. Perhaps more important is the engine RPM at highway speeds, where the auto does have the advantage of running at lower RPMs.
-Max
AUTO: 7000 engine RPM / (0.694 4th gear * 3.909 final) = 2580 wheel RPM
MANUAL: 8000 engine RPM / (0.719 5th gear * 4.100 final) = 2714 wheel RPM
However, I don't think is a very significant feature unless you are going for land speed records. Perhaps more important is the engine RPM at highway speeds, where the auto does have the advantage of running at lower RPMs.
-Max
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 34
From: Redmond, WA
Originally Posted by 93silverbullet
Actually the auto has a higher top end speed due to the diff. gearing (Auto -3.90 vs. Manual - 4.10).
Theoretical for the Auto is 192mph and I believe the Manual is 184 (correct me if I'm wrong here on these numbers).
Theoretical for the Auto is 192mph and I believe the Manual is 184 (correct me if I'm wrong here on these numbers).
Theoretical (gear-limited) top speed for the manual is 201 mph with stock (P225/50-16) tires. The auto runs out at about 191. As Max pointed out, the extra 1,000 rpm makes a big difference, even if the auto does have taller gears.
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 34
From: Redmond, WA
Originally Posted by SVT Squasher
What power? And yes the auto dose take a little more power but not that much more.
Also you get torque mutipliers with a auto and we all know that torque is what gets you moving. With that the auto will put more torque to the ground the the manual.
Final drive - 5-speed Manual
1st - 14.28:1
2nd - 8.26:1
3rd - 5.70:1
4th - 4.10:1
5th - 2.95:1
Final drive - 4-speed Auto
1st - 11.83:1
2nd - 6.33:1
3rd - 3.91:1
4th - 2.71:1
And let me clearify it that is a stock auto with just a 3k rpm stall -v- a stock manual. And thats not even taking into the fact that the auto will always make the perfect shift as where you will alway miss by a x amount of rpms.
Start doing the math and let me know what you come up with BIG $$$$$$.
A 3,000 rpm stall converter will not produce any more power. It will only allow an automatic to flash stall to a higher rpm on the launch. With traction, you'll get off the line quicker, but that won't make up for the horsepower loss or gearing disadvantage once the car is in motion.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 315
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, FL
sorry to incite a riot. i think manuals are more exciting to drive, whether there is a .0000001 second advantage with the auto or not. i'm gonna wait around for a silver manual.... however long that takes 
\m/
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 675
Likes: 0
From: Asheville NC
I will take a 5sp transmission in these cars anyday, then the Mazda MVP auto they tossed in there from the mazda garbage bin.
I hate automatic transmissions. Its a shame so many cars are made with them.
I hate automatic transmissions. Its a shame so many cars are made with them.
I think the topic of Auto vs.manual has been beat to death (many times) on this forum! I for one have owned both a manual 93 touring (bought brand new) and a 93 auto (bought last year with 67K on the clock). Both are excellent cars and yes both are "sports" cars.
And yes, both will require updating if you do any modifications that dramatically increase your horsepower above what Mazda engineers designed the stock system to handle.
So get over it people! Hell I'd rather have any FD (read manual or auto) over most of the crap that's being force fed these days to the public as a "sports" car.
Flame away :-)
And yes, both will require updating if you do any modifications that dramatically increase your horsepower above what Mazda engineers designed the stock system to handle.
So get over it people! Hell I'd rather have any FD (read manual or auto) over most of the crap that's being force fed these days to the public as a "sports" car.
Flame away :-)
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 34
From: Redmond, WA
Originally Posted by vrmmmpshhh
Why do you find SO MANY auto honda NSX!!
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 34
From: Redmond, WA
Originally Posted by weaklink
as one of the ego bruised auto owners let me just point out that the stock converter stall IS 3000-3300. referenced in both the fsm and yamaguchi books.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,096
Likes: 1
From: Dove le cose sono fatte il vecchio moda il senso
Originally Posted by jimlab
Because the NSX, like the Corvette, is targeted at an older demographic that doesn't feel like rowing gears constantly while cruising on a Sunday.
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 34
From: Redmond, WA
Originally Posted by 93silverbullet
And yes, both will require updating if you do any modifications that dramatically increase your horsepower above what Mazda engineers designed the stock system to handle.
You'll notice that the quickest Corvettes, Camaros/Firebirds, and Supras at the dragstrip are all automatics. That's because they came from the factory with stronger "performance" automatic transmissions. The quickest RX-7s, on the other hand, are all manuals, or have aftermarket or domestic transmissions. Does that tell you something about the automatic in the FD? It was stolen from the MPV minivan parts bin...
Resident Retard
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,918
Likes: 0
From: Cockaigne
Originally Posted by jimlab
So you throw a new clutch in the manual... what do you do with an automatic, short of wasting money at Level 10?
1. level 10 torque converter
2. level 10 rebuild kit
3. labor to R&R the tranny
4. PCS TCU (new tranny ecu)
5. new sparco steering wheel with buttons
6. sparco dual button adapter kit (for shifting from steering wheel).
a helluva lot more expensive than a new clutch, but hey-no more blinking hold light, and gran turismo 3 style shifting on the wheel.
i can't recommend level 10 as a business, but the particular above mentioned products have stood up to my particular application (single turbo 15-16 psi) for about 10K miles.
Full Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
From: PDX
No offense intended by this but from what I have seen, women seem to drive the autos more and people who may not push them as much as me when I was 18. This might mean they last longer.....not sure but it's a theory! I have known a number of well to do women that have had RX-7's and they all had auto's from what I recall. They also drove there cars very easily.
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 34
From: Redmond, WA
Thought this was kind of funny and interesting...
From edmunds.com
The earliest automobiles offered only manual transmissions. Similar in principle to today's stick-shift vehicles, these cars, such as the Ford Model T, sported two forward gears and one reverse, coupled to the engine via a series of pedals. But as cars grew larger and traffic got worse, engineers began searching for a way to have the car "automatically" shift from one gear to another.
Designers spent decades perfecting the modern automatic transmission.
Although groundwork had been laid in the early 1900s by German manufacturers of marine engines, the first appearance of an automatic transmission in a car did not occur until 1938, when GM invented "Hydra-matic Drive." The first production automobile to offer this transmission was an Oldsmobile, which rolled off the line in 1940. This was followed in close succession by Chrysler (their spies must have been working overtime), which in 1941 introduced three separate models with "Vacamatic" (they changed the name to "Fluid Drive" in 1942).
By 1948, most major American automakers offered passenger cars with optional fully automatic transmissions as an option.
The technology came along at a propitious time in American history. The United States, rife with victory from World War II and building up steam for the post-war boom, produced scads of babies and cars (not necessarily in that order). Into those cars they dropped thousands of automatic transmissions.
It could be fairly argued that the automatic transmission, with its simplicity and ease of use, offered up the automobile to the masses, fulfilling the promise of President Herbert Hoover, whom a generation earlier had promised "a car in every garage and a chicken in every pot." At the very least it widened the vistas of an increasingly mobile workforce, fed the flow of migration to the suburbs, and welcomed women back into the economy following the war effort.
The automatic transmission did this by offering a "no-muss, no-fuss" form of shifting. No more missed shift gates. No engine lugging or racing. No torn-stocking, high-heel clutch-pedaling dramas. None of that. Just press the gas and go.
The earliest automobiles offered only manual transmissions. Similar in principle to today's stick-shift vehicles, these cars, such as the Ford Model T, sported two forward gears and one reverse, coupled to the engine via a series of pedals. But as cars grew larger and traffic got worse, engineers began searching for a way to have the car "automatically" shift from one gear to another.
Designers spent decades perfecting the modern automatic transmission.
Although groundwork had been laid in the early 1900s by German manufacturers of marine engines, the first appearance of an automatic transmission in a car did not occur until 1938, when GM invented "Hydra-matic Drive." The first production automobile to offer this transmission was an Oldsmobile, which rolled off the line in 1940. This was followed in close succession by Chrysler (their spies must have been working overtime), which in 1941 introduced three separate models with "Vacamatic" (they changed the name to "Fluid Drive" in 1942).
By 1948, most major American automakers offered passenger cars with optional fully automatic transmissions as an option.
The technology came along at a propitious time in American history. The United States, rife with victory from World War II and building up steam for the post-war boom, produced scads of babies and cars (not necessarily in that order). Into those cars they dropped thousands of automatic transmissions.
It could be fairly argued that the automatic transmission, with its simplicity and ease of use, offered up the automobile to the masses, fulfilling the promise of President Herbert Hoover, whom a generation earlier had promised "a car in every garage and a chicken in every pot." At the very least it widened the vistas of an increasingly mobile workforce, fed the flow of migration to the suburbs, and welcomed women back into the economy following the war effort.
The automatic transmission did this by offering a "no-muss, no-fuss" form of shifting. No more missed shift gates. No engine lugging or racing. No torn-stocking, high-heel clutch-pedaling dramas. None of that. Just press the gas and go.
Resident Retard
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,918
Likes: 0
From: Cockaigne
I can't imagine why I still feel compelled to respond to these types of threads, BUT...when I was shopping for an rx7 I originally wanted a 5 speed. I can't tell you how many dented, dirty, high mileage, crooked frame, ripped seat, stained carpet, poor pitiful beater FD's I looked at. There were a few "prime"examples, but at "supradiculous" prices. At least most of the supras were well maintained. I don't know how rx7's "fell into the wrong hands", but it helps explain the shift to the left agewise in the rx7 owner's bell curve. The autos, as a group, were priced lower, with lower miles, and in superior condition. At the time I couldn't see forking over $15k-$20k and then spending a like amount fixing it up HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA, ahem...sorry....it's turned into a labor of love/hate. certainly, my car is unique. less so as more 5 speeds are totalled and sent to the wrecking yards. the autos are coming to the forefront now...anyone else notice a proliferation of auto posts lately?
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 34
From: Redmond, WA
Originally Posted by Tim Benton
without having to search other threads or magazine archives, does anyone have the 1/4 times for stock 5 speed and auto's?
http://www.mkiv.com/publications/mot...3/mt893_12.jpg
http://www.mkiv.com/publications/mot...4/mt594_08.jpg
holla at ya santa
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
From: san diego
thank you weak link and that is exactly what i saw when i was looking for my fd i found an older guy who kept his auto fd in awesome condition. the body on my car is pristine and the leather interior ,you can obviosly tell, was cared for with leather conditioner, the tires and rims were in great condition, because yes i bought this car from a 50 year old guy who used it ,YEAH, AS A WEEKEND CRUISER. so keep missing your gears and replacing clutches, but dont call us guys who have autos women, because like 93silverbullet said an fd is still an fd ,peace bitches
Love'n my 7
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 521
Likes: 0
From: YOU DONT HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW
Originally Posted by weaklink
I can't imagine why I still feel compelled to respond to these types of threads, BUT...when I was shopping for an rx7 I originally wanted a 5 speed. I can't tell you how many dented, dirty, high mileage, crooked frame, ripped seat, stained carpet, poor pitiful beater FD's I looked at. There were a few "prime"examples, but at "supradiculous" prices. At least most of the supras were well maintained. I don't know how rx7's "fell into the wrong hands", but it helps explain the shift to the left agewise in the rx7 owner's bell curve. The autos, as a group, were priced lower, with lower miles, and in superior condition. At the time I couldn't see forking over $15k-$20k and then spending a like amount fixing it up HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA, ahem...sorry....it's turned into a labor of love/hate. certainly, my car is unique. less so as more 5 speeds are totalled and sent to the wrecking yards. the autos are coming to the forefront now...anyone else notice a proliferation of auto posts lately?
This could also be a sighn that the number of FDs out there is starting to reach a seiously low number and the auto is now more of a option to FD want to be owners. And I agree that it seems that the majority of the nicer (meaning better shape) FD's are the auto's. I looked at several FD's and the 5 speeds were pretty much trash, there were some auto's to that were thrashed on but all around the auto's seemed to have been better taken care of.