Let's talk about rebuilding your engine yourself
#76
RX-7 Bad Ass
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Took the motor apart, used Mazda seals, never had that problem again.
I do have one but it's a chore to set up. Not only do you have to install the tester but you also have to block off all the coolant "holes" in the engine and if you don't get the right sized cap or clamp it down well the system leaks down.
I'm not saying it's a useless tool, but if you use Mazda seals, check all the coolant seal grooves (cleaning them with a sharpened screwdriver like I posted) and do a thorough inspection of the seal grooves you'll be fine.
Dale
#77
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There are no shortcuts with the FD, there are certain parts you can replace now, or you can replace them later. if you do all of them now, you can be trouble free for more than 30k miles, if you don't the car will break down for those little things.
Also in a shop situation there is a labor charge, so when the engine is out there are a bunch of things that need to come off anyways, and so to replace the part labor is free, but when you need to replace it on its own later its not.
Stuff you should change: (on a mostly stock car)
Metering Lines, N3A1-14-660E and N3A1-14-670E
the Turbo Water Hoses, N3A1-13-54X and N3A1-13-536
the Pulsation Damper, N3A2-20-180
Injector O Rings, NF01-13-ZG3 and NF01-13-ZG4, usually only the primaries, getting to the secondaries isn't usually needed, and isn't hard later
Injector lower grommets (seals to the engine) N3A1-13-257 for two, again only primary, no need to even unbolt the secondary rail from the engine.
the Clutch, N315-16-490-MV, obviously if you have some power you'd want more...
Lower Intake Gasket, N3A1-13-111C
you want the three thermowax hoses, N3A1-13-681A, N3A1-13-691A and N3A1-13-692A
you need about 1m of vacuum hose, most of the hoses on the vacuum rack do not see boost, so it is best to not touch them or disassemble the vacuum rack. you only replace the hoses that break when the engine is removed.
this might be controversial but for every "i'm going to change all those stupid hoses" threads there is a follow up "my car used to run and now it does..." threads. there are a couple of other things like this too, for instance the CAS's can just be unbolted from the engine and do not need to be unplugged from the harness. chance of breaking the connector taking it apart is 100%, but you don't need to unplug it, so its best to leave it.
spark plug wires are a good idea, the factory Yazaki's are really tough to beat the fit is perfect, but they are hard to get, N3A1-18-140, N3A1-18-180A and N3A1-18-190A. the NGK set is ok too and then there are the crazy stuff like the Revolution sets.
i think that is it, everything else gets evaluated, harness, engine mounts, turbo gaskets etc. anything you have off should also get checked for function, make sure the check valves check, turbo doors swing, stuff that should hold vacuum should hold vacuum etc. part of what a good shop/tuner will do is to check as much stuff as possible for function while its apart.
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scotty305 (12-12-21)
#79
RX-7 Bad Ass
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Good points. I'm going to make another post down the road on all the external stuff to consider when doing the job.
Dale
Dale
#80
#garageguybuild
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Dont forget local buds!
Tons of great info Dale and others!
Don't forget how important it is to have some knowledgeable local rotary buds to assist you in this rebuild adventure.
That is if you are lucky to have some.
Steve
Don't forget how important it is to have some knowledgeable local rotary buds to assist you in this rebuild adventure.
That is if you are lucky to have some.
Steve
#81
RX-7 Bad Ass
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https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-gene...iends-1151938/
This is VERY VERY important. Having someone to help out makes a WORLD of difference.
Dale
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estevan62274 (12-16-21)
#82
RX-7 Bad Ass
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OK, let's talk about all the crap that's bolted onto the engine.
Everything external to the engine block
This is the part where many people have more problems than the actual engine itself.
Going back to earlier posts, TAKE PICTURES, LABEL, BAG, and ORGANIZE. This is the #1 thing that will make a big job doable. If you don't expect to sell your car as a rolling chassis in the future.
That said, let's go through some of the external parts and what needs to be replaced.
Hoses
Check all the coolant hoses. When in doubt, replace it. Mazda OEM hoses are the way to go, period, full stop. Don't get some junky aftermarket hoses or try and make one out of a Ford heater hose from the parts store. The OEM hoses will go over 100,000 miles no problem. Also use the original spring clamps - most worm drive clamps will either be too loose, too tight, or will bite into the hose and cause damage. The OEM clamps won't hurt the hose, have just the right amount of tension on the hose, and can expand and contract with heat. An OEM hose with an OEM clamp on a clean surface WILL NOT leak and you WILL NOT have a problem with it. That's the way to go.
I also replaced the plastic "quick connect" adapter that is at the rear driver's side of the block that goes to the heater hose. It's not expensive new. Do NOT just shove the hose on the nipple and clamp it, that fitting isn't designed for a hose, there's no barb, and you have to over tighten a worm drive clamp to make it seal. Also there's a good reason Mazda did this - FC's went through heater hoses like candy because they got oil on them whenever you would change the oil filter. This isn't a problem on the FD because of that plastic adapter. If you get rid of it, it WILL be a problem in more ways than one, just do it right.
When in doubt, replace the hose. You can just get all the hoses new from Mazda, they don't cost a ton (maybe $150 for a whole set?).
Vacuum hoses - replace with silicone. Replace any of the hoses that are long, connect to the upper or lower intake manifold, or are obviously failing. You CAN replace all the hoses in the rat's nest but you don't HAVE to. Those baked-on hoses are fine where they are, they won't fail, but trying to remove them will more likely end up breaking a nipple off of a control solenoid. Boostcontroller.com has top quality hoses, get 20 feet of 3.5mm and 10 feet of 6mm and you'll have more than enough.
Gaskets
Most of the metal gaskets are OK to reuse. This includes the multi layer stainless turbo gasket - if it's solid and hasn't blown out, you can re-use it. They are VERY expensive and not worth replacing if they are doing fine. Same goes for the metal UIM to LIM gasket, TB to UIM gasket, etc.
The metal turbo drain line gaskets are worth replacing, I normally get a full set of those to be on the safe side. They aren't much and it's a breeze to change them now.
Lower intake manifold gasket was originally paper, the new one is now multi layer steel. If you have the paper one, without question it needs replacing, this is a common failure point. The multi layer steel gaskets CAN be re-used, they pretty much never fail, but it's up to you.
Water pump gaskets are paper and need to be replaced, this is the pump gasket and the housing to block gasket.
Go ahead and get a new Mazda thermostat as well, it comes with a new gasket. DO NOT GET PARTS STORE THERMOSTATS! I have seen them fail time and again in record time. @estevan62274 can tell you about the Deal's Gap trip that was ruined due to a parts store thermostat!
O-Rings
There are a few of note to replace.
- Oil level sender on oil pan, this is often overlooked and it's typically rock hard.
- Oil filter pedestal to block, these are always rock hard.
- Oil fill neck to block
- Injector O-rings, these are worth replacing with new OEM.
- Plastic injector diffusers, these are underneath all 4 injectors and help diffuse the spray pattern. They have O-rings that seal them internally and there are also grommets that seal the tip of the injector to these, replace them.
Wiring harness
This is a big topic. Many people get the stock wiring harness, see how crappy it looks, and immediately think it's junk. 9 times out of 10 it isn't.
Here's what I do -
- Most of the "ugliness" is cooked electrical tape and cooked nylon split loom tubing. You can carefully remove the really ratty parts and replace the split loom and tape. ONLY use good quality 3M tape, I like the Super 33, it's available at most any hardware store. Re-wrap any problem areas.
- If you have broken connectors, get replacement connector shells, back the pins out of the broken connector, and put the pins into the new shell. This many times is worth doing on the injector plugs, water temp sensor plug, etc. - ones that see a ton of heat.
- If you have damaged wiring, many times that can be patched or fixed
- You will also want to clean the wiring harness well. Believe it or not, you can pressure wash it - been there, done that. Just don't be a dummy and you can clean it up great. Dry it thoroughly of course, blowing it out with compressed air is also great.
- The fan switch connector typically snaps off right where the wire goes into the connector. Dig out the back of the connector, there's more wire in there. Solder a short extension and then fill the back of that connector with RTV and splice it back in to your harness. Many times you can save the connector.
Oil pan
This job sucks, but at least it's a MILLION times better to do out of the car with the engine on a stand. Here's my technique.
- Once the short block is all together, use a wire wheel on your Dremel to clean the bottom of the block of old RTV. Same for the mating surface of the oil pan. Get ALL the old RTV off.
- Use an M6 x 1.0 THREAD CLEANER tool. NOT a tap. These have flat bottoms. You can clean all the old RTV out and it doesn't try to cut the threads or anything. Get all the little bolt holes cleaned out and blow out with compressed air.
- Clean the oil pan inside and out, get it spotless inside. Make sure to get all the little grooves on the oil pan mating flange.
- Clean all the oil pan bolts with the wire wheel on the Dremel. Get all the old RTV and crud off of them.
- Clean both mating surfaces VERY well, brake clean, acetone, what have you, Get it SUPER clean with no oil.
- Install the oil pickup with a new gasket. Make sure to use the right bolts, they have built-in lock washers. A LIGHT coat of RTV is all you need on that gasket.
- Run a bead of RTV around the flange
- Drop the pan on and get all the bolts started.
- Work your way around criss-cross tightening the bolts up.
- Let it cure overnight, THEN put on the engine mounts and torque them on. This lets the RTV layer at the back of the engine cure "thick".
There's a lot of debate on what RTV to use. It needs to be something that's OIL AND FUEL safe, that's what kills most RTV is the rotary's fuel dilution with fuel. I've used Loctite 5900, Hondabond, and black RTV from the parts store.
If the pan is badly bent, GET A NEW PAN. One of the big causes of oil pan leaks is pans that are bent from removal - once bent it's not going back in shape. A new pan isn't that much.
Oil pan braces can help but they are NOT a guaranteed fix. I have one on my car and the damn pan STILL leaks.
OK, enough of this rabbit hole, there's a ton of threads on the oil pan. The big take away is you can do it right with the engine upside-down on the engine stand with everything spotless and clean.
Pilot bearing
If you have a proper tool to remove it, go ahead and replace it. If not and the pilot bearing is in good shape, get a new pilot bearing seal, re-grease the bearing, and be done with it. The seal you can typically remove with a screwdriver or something. If it's fine and you don't have the right tool you can more often make a bigger mess than if you would have left it alone.
Water pump
The water pump goes for a LONG time on the FD. When they go bad they get a lot of shaft play and will leak out of the weep hole. if you see any coolant staining around the weep hole, replace it. If it's in good shape, just go ahead and re-use. They don't go bad that often and if they DO go bad down the road they aren't hard to replace in the car.
Oil metering pump lines
As stated in the thread, these are worth replacing. They will typically last the life of the engine and you're at the end of that life . They will likely snap when removing them, that's fine. New ones are nice and flexible. If they aren't super old, flex them around with your hands, if they are OK and don't break, you can re-use them.
Don't bother with the stainless braided OMP lines. They don't fit well, they are abrasive so they can rub holes in hoses and wiring, and they cost a lot. There is zero reason to use them. Get new stockers and you're good for another 100,000 miles.
Crush washers
There are a ton of copper crush washers on the engine - turbo feed lines, turbo coolant lines, OMP injectors, etc. 9 times out of 10 they can be re-used. I get out a propane torch, heat each one until it's red hot, and let them cool. That re-expands the copper so you can crush it again. I've had great luck doing this. If you want, you can get new crush washers, just get the appropriate metric size. The tricky part is getting just the right size - the right diameter, thickness, etc. That's why it's just easier to re-use the old ones than try and find new that aren't the right size and end up giving problems.
Spark plugs
Always get new plugs on a new engine. If you typically run exotic spark plugs, use plain old NGK plugs to get it started and broken in. New engines are trying to build compression and a good, hot spark will get it running and idling the best. Don't try and re-use your old plugs, you want to give the engine the best chance on first start up and idle.
Front and rear main seals
Worth doing, make sure to get the orange rear main seal from Mazda. Atkins and some other aftermarket vendors have sold ones that don't fit right and will leak.
That's most of the external stuff. The big thing here is trying to reset the clock on everything - make it as new as you can so you don't have a problem down the road. But, remember to spend money SMART and don't just replace stuff to replace it. Also don't feel like you have to do something that can be easily done later, like a water pump. Don't spend money just to spend it, focus on what the car needs.
Dale
Everything external to the engine block
This is the part where many people have more problems than the actual engine itself.
Going back to earlier posts, TAKE PICTURES, LABEL, BAG, and ORGANIZE. This is the #1 thing that will make a big job doable. If you don't expect to sell your car as a rolling chassis in the future.
That said, let's go through some of the external parts and what needs to be replaced.
Hoses
Check all the coolant hoses. When in doubt, replace it. Mazda OEM hoses are the way to go, period, full stop. Don't get some junky aftermarket hoses or try and make one out of a Ford heater hose from the parts store. The OEM hoses will go over 100,000 miles no problem. Also use the original spring clamps - most worm drive clamps will either be too loose, too tight, or will bite into the hose and cause damage. The OEM clamps won't hurt the hose, have just the right amount of tension on the hose, and can expand and contract with heat. An OEM hose with an OEM clamp on a clean surface WILL NOT leak and you WILL NOT have a problem with it. That's the way to go.
I also replaced the plastic "quick connect" adapter that is at the rear driver's side of the block that goes to the heater hose. It's not expensive new. Do NOT just shove the hose on the nipple and clamp it, that fitting isn't designed for a hose, there's no barb, and you have to over tighten a worm drive clamp to make it seal. Also there's a good reason Mazda did this - FC's went through heater hoses like candy because they got oil on them whenever you would change the oil filter. This isn't a problem on the FD because of that plastic adapter. If you get rid of it, it WILL be a problem in more ways than one, just do it right.
When in doubt, replace the hose. You can just get all the hoses new from Mazda, they don't cost a ton (maybe $150 for a whole set?).
Vacuum hoses - replace with silicone. Replace any of the hoses that are long, connect to the upper or lower intake manifold, or are obviously failing. You CAN replace all the hoses in the rat's nest but you don't HAVE to. Those baked-on hoses are fine where they are, they won't fail, but trying to remove them will more likely end up breaking a nipple off of a control solenoid. Boostcontroller.com has top quality hoses, get 20 feet of 3.5mm and 10 feet of 6mm and you'll have more than enough.
Gaskets
Most of the metal gaskets are OK to reuse. This includes the multi layer stainless turbo gasket - if it's solid and hasn't blown out, you can re-use it. They are VERY expensive and not worth replacing if they are doing fine. Same goes for the metal UIM to LIM gasket, TB to UIM gasket, etc.
The metal turbo drain line gaskets are worth replacing, I normally get a full set of those to be on the safe side. They aren't much and it's a breeze to change them now.
Lower intake manifold gasket was originally paper, the new one is now multi layer steel. If you have the paper one, without question it needs replacing, this is a common failure point. The multi layer steel gaskets CAN be re-used, they pretty much never fail, but it's up to you.
Water pump gaskets are paper and need to be replaced, this is the pump gasket and the housing to block gasket.
Go ahead and get a new Mazda thermostat as well, it comes with a new gasket. DO NOT GET PARTS STORE THERMOSTATS! I have seen them fail time and again in record time. @estevan62274 can tell you about the Deal's Gap trip that was ruined due to a parts store thermostat!
O-Rings
There are a few of note to replace.
- Oil level sender on oil pan, this is often overlooked and it's typically rock hard.
- Oil filter pedestal to block, these are always rock hard.
- Oil fill neck to block
- Injector O-rings, these are worth replacing with new OEM.
- Plastic injector diffusers, these are underneath all 4 injectors and help diffuse the spray pattern. They have O-rings that seal them internally and there are also grommets that seal the tip of the injector to these, replace them.
Wiring harness
This is a big topic. Many people get the stock wiring harness, see how crappy it looks, and immediately think it's junk. 9 times out of 10 it isn't.
Here's what I do -
- Most of the "ugliness" is cooked electrical tape and cooked nylon split loom tubing. You can carefully remove the really ratty parts and replace the split loom and tape. ONLY use good quality 3M tape, I like the Super 33, it's available at most any hardware store. Re-wrap any problem areas.
- If you have broken connectors, get replacement connector shells, back the pins out of the broken connector, and put the pins into the new shell. This many times is worth doing on the injector plugs, water temp sensor plug, etc. - ones that see a ton of heat.
- If you have damaged wiring, many times that can be patched or fixed
- You will also want to clean the wiring harness well. Believe it or not, you can pressure wash it - been there, done that. Just don't be a dummy and you can clean it up great. Dry it thoroughly of course, blowing it out with compressed air is also great.
- The fan switch connector typically snaps off right where the wire goes into the connector. Dig out the back of the connector, there's more wire in there. Solder a short extension and then fill the back of that connector with RTV and splice it back in to your harness. Many times you can save the connector.
Oil pan
This job sucks, but at least it's a MILLION times better to do out of the car with the engine on a stand. Here's my technique.
- Once the short block is all together, use a wire wheel on your Dremel to clean the bottom of the block of old RTV. Same for the mating surface of the oil pan. Get ALL the old RTV off.
- Use an M6 x 1.0 THREAD CLEANER tool. NOT a tap. These have flat bottoms. You can clean all the old RTV out and it doesn't try to cut the threads or anything. Get all the little bolt holes cleaned out and blow out with compressed air.
- Clean the oil pan inside and out, get it spotless inside. Make sure to get all the little grooves on the oil pan mating flange.
- Clean all the oil pan bolts with the wire wheel on the Dremel. Get all the old RTV and crud off of them.
- Clean both mating surfaces VERY well, brake clean, acetone, what have you, Get it SUPER clean with no oil.
- Install the oil pickup with a new gasket. Make sure to use the right bolts, they have built-in lock washers. A LIGHT coat of RTV is all you need on that gasket.
- Run a bead of RTV around the flange
- Drop the pan on and get all the bolts started.
- Work your way around criss-cross tightening the bolts up.
- Let it cure overnight, THEN put on the engine mounts and torque them on. This lets the RTV layer at the back of the engine cure "thick".
There's a lot of debate on what RTV to use. It needs to be something that's OIL AND FUEL safe, that's what kills most RTV is the rotary's fuel dilution with fuel. I've used Loctite 5900, Hondabond, and black RTV from the parts store.
If the pan is badly bent, GET A NEW PAN. One of the big causes of oil pan leaks is pans that are bent from removal - once bent it's not going back in shape. A new pan isn't that much.
Oil pan braces can help but they are NOT a guaranteed fix. I have one on my car and the damn pan STILL leaks.
OK, enough of this rabbit hole, there's a ton of threads on the oil pan. The big take away is you can do it right with the engine upside-down on the engine stand with everything spotless and clean.
Pilot bearing
If you have a proper tool to remove it, go ahead and replace it. If not and the pilot bearing is in good shape, get a new pilot bearing seal, re-grease the bearing, and be done with it. The seal you can typically remove with a screwdriver or something. If it's fine and you don't have the right tool you can more often make a bigger mess than if you would have left it alone.
Water pump
The water pump goes for a LONG time on the FD. When they go bad they get a lot of shaft play and will leak out of the weep hole. if you see any coolant staining around the weep hole, replace it. If it's in good shape, just go ahead and re-use. They don't go bad that often and if they DO go bad down the road they aren't hard to replace in the car.
Oil metering pump lines
As stated in the thread, these are worth replacing. They will typically last the life of the engine and you're at the end of that life . They will likely snap when removing them, that's fine. New ones are nice and flexible. If they aren't super old, flex them around with your hands, if they are OK and don't break, you can re-use them.
Don't bother with the stainless braided OMP lines. They don't fit well, they are abrasive so they can rub holes in hoses and wiring, and they cost a lot. There is zero reason to use them. Get new stockers and you're good for another 100,000 miles.
Crush washers
There are a ton of copper crush washers on the engine - turbo feed lines, turbo coolant lines, OMP injectors, etc. 9 times out of 10 they can be re-used. I get out a propane torch, heat each one until it's red hot, and let them cool. That re-expands the copper so you can crush it again. I've had great luck doing this. If you want, you can get new crush washers, just get the appropriate metric size. The tricky part is getting just the right size - the right diameter, thickness, etc. That's why it's just easier to re-use the old ones than try and find new that aren't the right size and end up giving problems.
Spark plugs
Always get new plugs on a new engine. If you typically run exotic spark plugs, use plain old NGK plugs to get it started and broken in. New engines are trying to build compression and a good, hot spark will get it running and idling the best. Don't try and re-use your old plugs, you want to give the engine the best chance on first start up and idle.
Front and rear main seals
Worth doing, make sure to get the orange rear main seal from Mazda. Atkins and some other aftermarket vendors have sold ones that don't fit right and will leak.
That's most of the external stuff. The big thing here is trying to reset the clock on everything - make it as new as you can so you don't have a problem down the road. But, remember to spend money SMART and don't just replace stuff to replace it. Also don't feel like you have to do something that can be easily done later, like a water pump. Don't spend money just to spend it, focus on what the car needs.
Dale
#83
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Go ahead and get a new Mazda thermostat as well, it comes with a new gasket. DO NOT GET PARTS STORE THERMOSTATS!
the genuine NTC part is N3A1-15-171 which is not available from Mazda USA, it needs to come from overseas
the NTC is available aftermarket WV52MR-82. Atkins sells a motorad or something and that is actually surprisingly good. i've boiled a lot of thermostats on the stove.
Gates and Stant are not good enough, they open slowly and then only to the minimum spec (a new NTC will basically double that).
the seal is N3C1-15-173
- Oil level sender on oil pan, this is often overlooked and it's typically rock hard.
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DaleClark (12-16-21)
#84
RX-7 Bad Ass
Thread Starter
iTrader: (55)
Great input, Thanks!
Thinking about it, I have used an Aisin thermostat which I think were OE for Mazda.
Part number THZ-002, has the jiggle pin and the OEM style rubber seal.
Dale
Thinking about it, I have used an Aisin thermostat which I think were OE for Mazda.
Part number THZ-002, has the jiggle pin and the OEM style rubber seal.
Dale
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Jatt (12-19-21)
#85
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (2)
Dale,
Fine - you win.
You told me so on the fuel clamps, and your telling me so on my engine rebuild.
Thank's for this thread - it was the tipping point for me to officially rebuild my engine. I save 1500 in labor from the engine builder.
But - if I have too many shot big parts I'll probably just buy a new short block.. lol
Ben
p.s. I just compiled a list of a lot of the long block related stuff to replace for a friends car I am working on.
I purposely left out the fuel injector diffusers as this car will be used for competition purposes.
I know we can shop around for cheaper prices but here's the list with part numbers.
I would definitely buy from the mazda dealership the thermostat and thermostat gasket as the ones I got from Atkins were not oem even though they have oem pics and part numbers on their site.
Just keep in mind that not everything is oem and when you receive it you will know because there is no oem mazda label on the part / packaging.
Atkins is a great source for pics, price reference and part numbers.
1. N3A1-13-257 primary lower fuel injector grommet x 2 - $7 ($14) - 93-95 Rx7 Lower Primary Fuel Injector Grommet (N3A1-13-257) (atkinsrotary.com)
2. NF01-13-257A secondary lower fuel injector grommet x 2 - $7.25 ($14.50)- 93-95 Rx7 Lower Secondary Fuel Injector Grommet (NF01-13-257A) (atkinsrotary.com)
3. RC injector rebuild x4 - $29.00 ($116)- https://www.rcfuelinjection.com/Stor...feed-injectors
4. N3A1-13-112 uim to lim gasket - $16.25 - 93-95 Rx7 Intake Plenum Gasket (N3A1-13-112) (atkinsrotary.com)
5. N3A1-13-655 tb to uim gasket - $22 - 93-95 Rx7 Throttle Body Gasket (N3A1-13-655) (atkinsrotary.com)
6. N390-13-W69 greddy elbow to tb gasket - $24.25 - 93-95 Rx7 Throttle Body O-Ring (N390-13-W69) (atkinsrotary.com)
7. N3A1-13-111C lim to engine gasket - $40.25 - 93-95 Rx7 Lower Intake Manifold Gasket (N3A1-13-111C) (atkinsrotary.com)
8. N386-15-162 water pump housing to engine gasket - $5.50 - 86-95 Rx7 Water Pump Housing to Block Gasket (N386-15-162) (atkinsrotary.com)
9. N3A1-15-116 water pump gasket - $8.00 - 93-95 Rx7 Water Pump Housing Gasket (N3A1-15-116) (atkinsrotary.com)
10. N3C1-15-173 thermostat oring - $8.25 - 89-95 Rx7 Thermostat O-Ring (N3C1-15-173) (atkinsrotary.com)
11. ARE108 oil metering lines - $78.00 - 93-95 Rx7 Oil Metering Line Kit (ARE108) (atkinsrotary.com)
12. N350-14-604 oil metering pump oring x2 - $11.75 ($23.50) - 89-95 Rx7 Oil Metering Pump O-Ring (N350-14-604) (atkinsrotary.com)
13. 9956-21-000 omp oil injector crush washer x4 - $3.25 ($13)- 84-11 13B Rx7 & Rx8 Oil Injector Crush Washer (9956-21-000) (atkinsrotary.com)
14. 9956-20-800 omp oil metering line crush washer x4 - $3.00 ($12) - 84-08 13B Rx7 & Rx8 Oil Metering Pump Line Crush Washer (9956-20-800) (atkinsrotary.com)
15. N390-14-602 omp two-hole crush washer - $8.75 - 93-95 Rx7 Two Hole Oil Metering Pump Crush Washer (N390-14-602) (atkinsrotary.com)
16. N3A1-13-461 exhaust manifold to engine gasket x 2 - $36.88 ($73.76) https://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts...SABEgIfkfD_BwE
17. N3A3-18-100 ignition coils leading - $185.25 - https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/I...A3-18-100.html
18. N3A1-18-100 ignition coils trailing T1 - $183 - https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/I...1-18-100-.html
19. N3A2-18-100 ignition coils trailing T2 - $183 - https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/I...2-18-100-.html
20. N3A3-18-05Z ignition coil harness – $105 - https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/Electrical-Systems/Wiring-Harness/93-95-Rx7-Engine-Wiring-Harness-to-Coil-Wiring-Harness-Junction-N3A3-18-05Z.html
21. 8159 spark plug wires - $42 - https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/I...ires-8159.html
22. N3A1-10-470A oil level sensor – $135.25 - https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/Oil-System/Oil-Sensors-Sending-Units-and-Valves/93-95-Rx7-Oil-Sensors/93-95-Rx7-Oil-Level-Sensor-N3A1-10-470A.html
23. N326-10-T11 oil level sensor oring - $5 - https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/M...26-10-T11.html
24. PN41-18-840 FC thermo switch 97C - $64.25 - https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/8...41-18-840.html
I hope maybe we can add to this list. Long block related stuff.
Fine - you win.
You told me so on the fuel clamps, and your telling me so on my engine rebuild.
Thank's for this thread - it was the tipping point for me to officially rebuild my engine. I save 1500 in labor from the engine builder.
But - if I have too many shot big parts I'll probably just buy a new short block.. lol
Ben
p.s. I just compiled a list of a lot of the long block related stuff to replace for a friends car I am working on.
I purposely left out the fuel injector diffusers as this car will be used for competition purposes.
I know we can shop around for cheaper prices but here's the list with part numbers.
I would definitely buy from the mazda dealership the thermostat and thermostat gasket as the ones I got from Atkins were not oem even though they have oem pics and part numbers on their site.
Just keep in mind that not everything is oem and when you receive it you will know because there is no oem mazda label on the part / packaging.
Atkins is a great source for pics, price reference and part numbers.
1. N3A1-13-257 primary lower fuel injector grommet x 2 - $7 ($14) - 93-95 Rx7 Lower Primary Fuel Injector Grommet (N3A1-13-257) (atkinsrotary.com)
2. NF01-13-257A secondary lower fuel injector grommet x 2 - $7.25 ($14.50)- 93-95 Rx7 Lower Secondary Fuel Injector Grommet (NF01-13-257A) (atkinsrotary.com)
3. RC injector rebuild x4 - $29.00 ($116)- https://www.rcfuelinjection.com/Stor...feed-injectors
4. N3A1-13-112 uim to lim gasket - $16.25 - 93-95 Rx7 Intake Plenum Gasket (N3A1-13-112) (atkinsrotary.com)
5. N3A1-13-655 tb to uim gasket - $22 - 93-95 Rx7 Throttle Body Gasket (N3A1-13-655) (atkinsrotary.com)
6. N390-13-W69 greddy elbow to tb gasket - $24.25 - 93-95 Rx7 Throttle Body O-Ring (N390-13-W69) (atkinsrotary.com)
7. N3A1-13-111C lim to engine gasket - $40.25 - 93-95 Rx7 Lower Intake Manifold Gasket (N3A1-13-111C) (atkinsrotary.com)
8. N386-15-162 water pump housing to engine gasket - $5.50 - 86-95 Rx7 Water Pump Housing to Block Gasket (N386-15-162) (atkinsrotary.com)
9. N3A1-15-116 water pump gasket - $8.00 - 93-95 Rx7 Water Pump Housing Gasket (N3A1-15-116) (atkinsrotary.com)
10. N3C1-15-173 thermostat oring - $8.25 - 89-95 Rx7 Thermostat O-Ring (N3C1-15-173) (atkinsrotary.com)
11. ARE108 oil metering lines - $78.00 - 93-95 Rx7 Oil Metering Line Kit (ARE108) (atkinsrotary.com)
12. N350-14-604 oil metering pump oring x2 - $11.75 ($23.50) - 89-95 Rx7 Oil Metering Pump O-Ring (N350-14-604) (atkinsrotary.com)
13. 9956-21-000 omp oil injector crush washer x4 - $3.25 ($13)- 84-11 13B Rx7 & Rx8 Oil Injector Crush Washer (9956-21-000) (atkinsrotary.com)
14. 9956-20-800 omp oil metering line crush washer x4 - $3.00 ($12) - 84-08 13B Rx7 & Rx8 Oil Metering Pump Line Crush Washer (9956-20-800) (atkinsrotary.com)
15. N390-14-602 omp two-hole crush washer - $8.75 - 93-95 Rx7 Two Hole Oil Metering Pump Crush Washer (N390-14-602) (atkinsrotary.com)
16. N3A1-13-461 exhaust manifold to engine gasket x 2 - $36.88 ($73.76) https://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts...SABEgIfkfD_BwE
17. N3A3-18-100 ignition coils leading - $185.25 - https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/I...A3-18-100.html
18. N3A1-18-100 ignition coils trailing T1 - $183 - https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/I...1-18-100-.html
19. N3A2-18-100 ignition coils trailing T2 - $183 - https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/I...2-18-100-.html
20. N3A3-18-05Z ignition coil harness – $105 - https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/Electrical-Systems/Wiring-Harness/93-95-Rx7-Engine-Wiring-Harness-to-Coil-Wiring-Harness-Junction-N3A3-18-05Z.html
21. 8159 spark plug wires - $42 - https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/I...ires-8159.html
22. N3A1-10-470A oil level sensor – $135.25 - https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/Oil-System/Oil-Sensors-Sending-Units-and-Valves/93-95-Rx7-Oil-Sensors/93-95-Rx7-Oil-Level-Sensor-N3A1-10-470A.html
23. N326-10-T11 oil level sensor oring - $5 - https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/M...26-10-T11.html
24. PN41-18-840 FC thermo switch 97C - $64.25 - https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/8...41-18-840.html
I hope maybe we can add to this list. Long block related stuff.
Last edited by rotaryextreme; 03-08-22 at 03:51 PM.
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blk91fc3s (03-22-22)
#86
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Good list, here's some general advice on this (not necessarily directed at Ben's needs) -
On the external parts, you don't necessarily need everything. A lot of that is a good idea but if the parts are good you can re-use them.
It's also worth considering placement of parts. If a part is a bit pricey but you can get to it relatively easily with the motor in the car (example: coil packs) you don't have to necessarily do it NOW. Make sure you spend the money on the rebuild SMART.
I also recommend making a spreadsheet of all the parts you need, pricing it out from different vendors, and trying to bundle things into one shipment to save on shipping. Forgetting to add something in a box from a vendor means another $15-20 in shipping costs that could have been avoided with some forethought.
For example, Ray Crowe typically does $15 flat shipping, which is awesome. Get one giant box of stuff, $15 to get it to you. But, if you make like 3 orders and forget little parts, that's another $15 a crack.
Rock Auto is a killer resource to get a lot of parts, but they don't cut you slack on shipping. Sometimes they have parts in 3 or 4 different warehouses and you pay for shipping on each box. I've found sometimes that Amazon had the same part for a few more bucks but I got free shipping.
Crush washers - you can re-anneal crush washers. Get a propane torch and some needle nose pliers, put the washer in the heat of the torch until it glows red then let it cool. This expands the copper back out for re-use. Doesn't take long, is kind of fun (playing with FIRE!), and will save some money you can put towards something more important.
I also find it's helpful to have a notebook or something on hand when you pull and break down the motor. If you see a trashed coolant hose, sensor that's broken off, etc. make note of it. It's also worth going through all the parts and making a list of what can be re-used and what needs to be replaced.
I'm a big proponent of "do it once, do it right" but I'm also a fan of working SMART not just throwing money at it.
Ben, glad to hear you're going to tackle the rebuild yourself! I'm very interested what's inside that engine. Take your time, take pictures, bag and label.
Dale
On the external parts, you don't necessarily need everything. A lot of that is a good idea but if the parts are good you can re-use them.
It's also worth considering placement of parts. If a part is a bit pricey but you can get to it relatively easily with the motor in the car (example: coil packs) you don't have to necessarily do it NOW. Make sure you spend the money on the rebuild SMART.
I also recommend making a spreadsheet of all the parts you need, pricing it out from different vendors, and trying to bundle things into one shipment to save on shipping. Forgetting to add something in a box from a vendor means another $15-20 in shipping costs that could have been avoided with some forethought.
For example, Ray Crowe typically does $15 flat shipping, which is awesome. Get one giant box of stuff, $15 to get it to you. But, if you make like 3 orders and forget little parts, that's another $15 a crack.
Rock Auto is a killer resource to get a lot of parts, but they don't cut you slack on shipping. Sometimes they have parts in 3 or 4 different warehouses and you pay for shipping on each box. I've found sometimes that Amazon had the same part for a few more bucks but I got free shipping.
Crush washers - you can re-anneal crush washers. Get a propane torch and some needle nose pliers, put the washer in the heat of the torch until it glows red then let it cool. This expands the copper back out for re-use. Doesn't take long, is kind of fun (playing with FIRE!), and will save some money you can put towards something more important.
I also find it's helpful to have a notebook or something on hand when you pull and break down the motor. If you see a trashed coolant hose, sensor that's broken off, etc. make note of it. It's also worth going through all the parts and making a list of what can be re-used and what needs to be replaced.
I'm a big proponent of "do it once, do it right" but I'm also a fan of working SMART not just throwing money at it.
Ben, glad to hear you're going to tackle the rebuild yourself! I'm very interested what's inside that engine. Take your time, take pictures, bag and label.
Dale
#87
Rotorhead for life
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Piling on a few more useful tips to add to Dale's...
FYI, Ray Crowe ships his parts thru a Mazda dealership in Delaware, NuCar Mazda, located in New Castle, DE. If you happen to be live local to NuCar (I'm just a 20 minute drive away), you can arrange with Ray to pick up your parts at NuCar when they arrive and you don't pay any shipping. No sales tax either, because DE is a no sales tax state. If the parts are in stock, and order via Ray in the morning, you can often get them on the same day.
Another option on re-annealing the crush washers if you don't like playing with fire, or just like to keep plenty of spares in the shop - Buy them in bulk from Amazon. Just search "metric copper crush washers" or "metric aluminum crush washers" and you'll find a bunch of individual sizes or assortments of sizes of the crush washers to use when you need them for cheap. Don't have the link handy, but I purchased a copper assortment and an aluminum assortment some time ago for maybe $8 each shipped - they had almost all of the popular sizes you'll need for long block tear downs & rebuilds, probably enough for a dozen rebuilds.
To add to the notebook comment, a cell phone camera is also handy for documenting the "before" condition/orientation of things during disassembly, and to document parts you'll need to get.
Crush washers - you can re-anneal crush washers. Get a propane torch and some needle nose pliers, put the washer in the heat of the torch until it glows red then let it cool. This expands the copper back out for re-use. Doesn't take long, is kind of fun (playing with FIRE!), and will save some money you can put towards something more important.
I also find it's helpful to have a notebook or something on hand when you pull and break down the motor. If you see a trashed coolant hose, sensor that's broken off, etc. make note of it. It's also worth going through all the parts and making a list of what can be re-used and what needs to be replaced.
I also find it's helpful to have a notebook or something on hand when you pull and break down the motor. If you see a trashed coolant hose, sensor that's broken off, etc. make note of it. It's also worth going through all the parts and making a list of what can be re-used and what needs to be replaced.
To add to the notebook comment, a cell phone camera is also handy for documenting the "before" condition/orientation of things during disassembly, and to document parts you'll need to get.
#88
The bomb is in the toy!1!
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@DaleClark When are we getting the video series?
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Jatt (03-09-22)
#89
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i've gotten into the habit of just checking everything, and just replacing what is needed. on the smart side there are also some things you don't need if you don't take them apart, for instance if you did a head gasket in a miata you can leave the intake and exhaust manifolds on it, so you really just need the downpipe gasket and the head gasket....
#90
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (2)
Dale,
Since I have never personally broken apart an engine I will be having my friend at Palm Tree Rotary assist me.
The original owner told me it was built by renown and I have internal oil modifications, ported exhaust and who knows what else but I need his experienced eyes to identify whatever modifications have been made in this engine since its unknown.
But like you said .. bag, tag, document everything. Do it right the first time, Excited to get some good in person training and guidance on this adventure.
Thank you for this thread and everyone else who has contributed to it.
Since I have never personally broken apart an engine I will be having my friend at Palm Tree Rotary assist me.
The original owner told me it was built by renown and I have internal oil modifications, ported exhaust and who knows what else but I need his experienced eyes to identify whatever modifications have been made in this engine since its unknown.
But like you said .. bag, tag, document everything. Do it right the first time, Excited to get some good in person training and guidance on this adventure.
Thank you for this thread and everyone else who has contributed to it.
#91
Rotary Enthusiast
Dale,
Since I have never personally broken apart an engine I will be having my friend at Palm Tree Rotary assist me.
The original owner told me it was built by renown and I have internal oil modifications, ported exhaust and who knows what else but I need his experienced eyes to identify whatever modifications have been made in this engine since its unknown.
But like you said .. bag, tag, document everything. Do it right the first time, Excited to get some good in person training and guidance on this adventure.
Thank you for this thread and everyone else who has contributed to it.
Since I have never personally broken apart an engine I will be having my friend at Palm Tree Rotary assist me.
The original owner told me it was built by renown and I have internal oil modifications, ported exhaust and who knows what else but I need his experienced eyes to identify whatever modifications have been made in this engine since its unknown.
But like you said .. bag, tag, document everything. Do it right the first time, Excited to get some good in person training and guidance on this adventure.
Thank you for this thread and everyone else who has contributed to it.
Thats what I did. Bag and tagged everything and took it to a guy who worked for mazda and had a shop on the side building scca engines. I knew when I opened it up it was perfect short of water seal and did not want to f it up doing it myself the 1st time. When he saw it ...he was like, dude where did you get this- it's in excellent condition! NA that ran with mustangs on MT on the street and blew flames. it was a fun car. 87 I think.
I bought the car for 500 for the engine that was supposedly just rebuilt from someone who finally gave up like many do.
bag it and tag it if it's your 1st time IMO
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rotaryextreme (03-10-22)
#92
RX-7 Bad Ass
Thread Starter
iTrader: (55)
I've done probably 50-60 engines and I STILL bag and tag.
Pull the oil pan, get a baggie labelled "oil pan" and put all the bolts and the pick up in there. Pull the front cover, put all those bolts in a "front cover" baggie. Etc. etc.
Really, taking the engine apart is easy, it goes pretty quickly.
Dale
Pull the oil pan, get a baggie labelled "oil pan" and put all the bolts and the pick up in there. Pull the front cover, put all those bolts in a "front cover" baggie. Etc. etc.
Really, taking the engine apart is easy, it goes pretty quickly.
Dale
#93
Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
Many thanks to Dale.
I wanted to add his idea for lock nuts on exhaust studs.
The OEM MAZDA lock nuts are far too aggressive and often ruin the very expensive Inconel studs.
Instead FD owners should use copper plated steel lock nuts. I've installed and removed these on a sequential twin car without issue.
M10 x 1.5 copper plated lock nuts M8 x 1.25 copper plated lock nuts
Use any corrosion resistant washers where applicable.
I wanted to add his idea for lock nuts on exhaust studs.
The OEM MAZDA lock nuts are far too aggressive and often ruin the very expensive Inconel studs.
Instead FD owners should use copper plated steel lock nuts. I've installed and removed these on a sequential twin car without issue.
M10 x 1.5 copper plated lock nuts M8 x 1.25 copper plated lock nuts
Use any corrosion resistant washers where applicable.
#94
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the tip with the Mazda nuts is to not use an impact gun, the impact breaks stuff. you want a bar and just lean on it. if you're lucky it comes apart or the stud comes out.
these studs were designed not to come apart, and they are actually better than the T2 setup with normal nuts and all the lock tabs, which if you don't use the turbo falls off
those copper nuts seem to be a good compromise, and they are CHEAP
these studs were designed not to come apart, and they are actually better than the T2 setup with normal nuts and all the lock tabs, which if you don't use the turbo falls off
those copper nuts seem to be a good compromise, and they are CHEAP
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gracer7-rx7 (04-07-22)
#95
RX-7 Bad Ass
Thread Starter
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The Mazda nuts always suck. They either pull the stud out and are so seized to the stud that you can't re=use the stud or they damage the stud coming off so it's bad again. I've tried most methods to remove them and never had good luck.
The copper lock nuts I discovered back in my FC days, used them for 20 years on many different cars. They work awesome, never had problems with them loosening up and they come off nice and easy.
Dale
The copper lock nuts I discovered back in my FC days, used them for 20 years on many different cars. They work awesome, never had problems with them loosening up and they come off nice and easy.
Dale
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Pete_89T2 (03-17-22)
#96
Thanks so much for the notes on the shortblock-to-longblock steps. I find that's the part no one talks about. As someone inexperienced in this level of work, and with a fresh mazda keg that just arrived, the remaining work to get the engine fully dressed and back in the car is actually pretty daunting.
I'm going from non-sequential to sequential, and it's hard to find pictures of even things like how the rats nest hard lines and things like that fit together. It's been hard to piece together the little things that were missing.
I have the Rotary Aviation DVDs but even they kinda just skim this part after making a joke about "reinstall is the reverse of removal."
I'm going from non-sequential to sequential, and it's hard to find pictures of even things like how the rats nest hard lines and things like that fit together. It's been hard to piece together the little things that were missing.
I have the Rotary Aviation DVDs but even they kinda just skim this part after making a joke about "reinstall is the reverse of removal."
#97
RX-7 Bad Ass
Thread Starter
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It's daunting but I've found that everything on top of the engine in the rat's nest kind of wants to fit in a certain way. I usually have at once one "pull it back off and re-layer it" when assembling a long block - a harness will want to go under the rat's nest, then a vacuum line will go over that, etc.
It also helps to put things where they HAVE to be and go from there. For example, the primary and secondary injectors have only once place and orientation. The rat's nest bolts to the top of the rotor housings only one way.
This is also a case where you want to have the engine out of the car on an engine stand when doing this. It's SO SO much easier to work on - lots of light and easy access.
Mazda designed everything to kind of flow into each other. If you have to force or do something weird to hook it up it's most likely not right.
Dale
It also helps to put things where they HAVE to be and go from there. For example, the primary and secondary injectors have only once place and orientation. The rat's nest bolts to the top of the rotor housings only one way.
This is also a case where you want to have the engine out of the car on an engine stand when doing this. It's SO SO much easier to work on - lots of light and easy access.
Mazda designed everything to kind of flow into each other. If you have to force or do something weird to hook it up it's most likely not right.
Dale
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gracer7-rx7 (04-07-22)
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Thanks so much for the notes on the shortblock-to-longblock steps. I find that's the part no one talks about. As someone inexperienced in this level of work, and with a fresh mazda keg that just arrived, the remaining work to get the engine fully dressed and back in the car is actually pretty daunting.
I'm going from non-sequential to sequential, and it's hard to find pictures of even things like how the rats nest hard lines and things like that fit together. It's been hard to piece together the little things that were missing.
I have the Rotary Aviation DVDs but even they kinda just skim this part after making a joke about "reinstall is the reverse of removal."
I'm going from non-sequential to sequential, and it's hard to find pictures of even things like how the rats nest hard lines and things like that fit together. It's been hard to piece together the little things that were missing.
I have the Rotary Aviation DVDs but even they kinda just skim this part after making a joke about "reinstall is the reverse of removal."
i have a buddy that apprenticed at a JDM tuner and he tests everything before it goes on the engine, and it takes forever, but his stuff is also really reliable (500hp on 89 octane that goes road racing)
or there was this story about a racing porsche and it had gone through like 5 engines, same failure each time. the dude had all the oil lines hanging up and noticed there wasn't a puddle under one of the hoses, so he went to blow through them and one of the AN lines was made wrong and didn't flow any oil. so 5x $20,0000 engines because of a $50 oil line...
plus all the junk on top of the engine isn't a lot of fun to play with
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Demonsniper1 (03-22-22)
#99
Eh
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Great thread. Landers once did a full write up showing how to tear down, inspect, clean and rebuild a REW with great detail and hundreds of pics. It was the most valuable free thing I’ve ever seen on this or any forum. Forum ran him off because he wasn’t a paying vendor and all that info is gone. lol. Glad to see someone helping others like you are here.
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#100
the other tip here is to give everything a quick test. to the metering nozzles hold vacuum like they should? solenoids? etc
i have a buddy that apprenticed at a JDM tuner and he tests everything before it goes on the engine, and it takes forever, but his stuff is also really reliable (500hp on 89 octane that goes road racing)
i have a buddy that apprenticed at a JDM tuner and he tests everything before it goes on the engine, and it takes forever, but his stuff is also really reliable (500hp on 89 octane that goes road racing)
I would also like to add to this thread, that it is worth either downloading or printing off a PDF version, or if possible, buying the real book of the RX7 workshop manual. It has been mentioned many times already in this great thread and is worth its weight in gold not just in rebuilding your engine, but working on these cars in general.
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DaleClark (03-19-22)