Let's talk about rebuilding your engine yourself
12-03-21, 09:17 AM
#51
RX-7 Bad Ass
Thread Starter
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On this topic....
You can use Vaseline and/or Crisco on engine builds. I've used Vaseline as stated to help hold side seals/corner seals in place so they don't fall out on accident during assembly.
Had a friend use baby powder scent Vaseline once. Smelled like a burning diaper when they started the car
.
Same goes for Crisco, had a friend build an engine with Butter Flavor Crisco. They fired up the car and said it smelled like something tasty in the oven.
I'll do a post at some point on chemicals and such for engine building.
Dale
You can use Vaseline and/or Crisco on engine builds. I've used Vaseline as stated to help hold side seals/corner seals in place so they don't fall out on accident during assembly.
Had a friend use baby powder scent Vaseline once. Smelled like a burning diaper when they started the car
.Same goes for Crisco, had a friend build an engine with Butter Flavor Crisco. They fired up the car and said it smelled like something tasty in the oven
.I'll do a post at some point on chemicals and such for engine building.
Dale
12-03-21, 01:35 PM
#53
RX-7 Bad Ass
Thread Starter
iTrader: (55)
Let's talk about parts when it's new engine time.
First, I'm going to talk mainly about the internal parts, the stuff to make the "short block". I may make another post about external stuff.
Apex Seals
This is the biggie, if you are opening an engine, you need apex seals. The only exception is if it's SUPER low mileage or something. These are the #1 wear item in the engine, hands down.
When in doubt, Mazda apex seals. They're tried and tested, tons of R&D goes into them, and they are of good quality. For a stock or near-stock build, I would just stick with them.
If you are chasing power, start looking at aftermarket seals. There are a few out there - RX Parts, Goopy, iRotary, Atkins, etc. etc. etc. Read up, ask questions, do your research. Many of them can take more detonation abuse than the stock ones and if it's hard enough they will bend, not break, saving the engine hard parts. Sometimes apex seal life can be compromised, though, you may not get the same amount of mileage but that's the price you pay if you are chasing big power.
The only things I will say to avoid are ceramic apex seals and 3mm apex seals. Ceramics are amazing but they are really for non-turbo race cars. They are VERY brittle and if they break in a turbo rotary (which they CAN break) they shatter into many tiny pieces which takes out EVERYTHING - all your hard parts, turbos, everything. Also they are $2000 a set.
3mm seals are leftover from the 90's. You mill the rotor out to take a thicker apex seal and run apex seals from the 1st gen RX-7. In theory thicker = less chance of breaking with detonation. The kicker is milling the rotors out is VERY hard and the shop is more likely to ruin the rotor. They don't seal well at low RPM and, yes, you can still break them. With modern tuning and wideband gauges there's just no reason.
About $350-400 for a set of Mazda seals, $400-500 for aftermarket.
Corner Seals
Mazda OEM is the way to go. Atkins has some solid ones and I've also seen metal plugs for them but I don't think it's worth it. I have heard of bad things happening with the solid corner seals - more iron wear - and really it's not worth it.
These can sometimes be re-used if budget is an issue. Look for notches in the side from the side seal and notches in the bottom from the corner seal spring. Too much and they have to be replaced.
About $100 for a set of 12.
Side Seals
Again, Mazda OEM, it's the only option. They can be re-used on a budget, they are the least to wear of the compression seals in the engine. They do need to be cleaned well though. Make sure the ends are square and there's not excessive wear on the bottom where the spring touches, when re-assembling they need to have that wear side down and be fit to the proper clearance.
About $250 for a set, and you'll want to get a few extras if it's your first time in case you screw one up badly. Springs are $30 for a set and you have to get them, they typically are destroyed on removal.
Oil Seals
I haven't talked much about these yet. There are round metal carriers in the center of the rotor that have O-rings in them, this keeps the oil that cools the rotor and lubricates the eccentric shaft where it should be. It's rare, but some FD's have had bad oil seals, this is typically from neglected oil changes or running low on oil for a long time. I've actually seen 2nd gen RX-7's with NO oil seals that had totally burned up, they smoke like insane.
For these I've been using Atkins Rotary's Viton oil seals for ages. They have them sorted out, they fit just as good as OEM, cost less, and I've yet to hear of a set that wears out prematurely.
You can also get the RX-8 seals which are Mazda-made Viton but they are MUCH more pricey.
The metal carriers for the oil seals rarely have significant wear, 99 times out of 100 I can re-use them and do re-use them. New from Mazda they are VERY pricey. You can buy new if you want, but really I think that's money you can use better elsewhere.
The springs under the seals also typically don't wear too much but they need a lot of cleaning. There is a spec in the shop manual for how much the seal with the spring should come up from the rotor, you can double-check this. If the spring has large wear spots and you aren't comfortable with it, buy new springs, they are a little pricey but not terrible.
Prices - Atkins' Viton seals, $40, Mazda $160, springs $50. Not sure on the casing pricing, I know it's deep into the hundreds.
Tension Bolts
These are pretty much infinitely re-useable. They aren't "stretch bolts" or something. Get new washers for them, clean them up, good to go.
You can get studs to replace the tension bolts to make the motor stiffer if you are seeking more power. I've installed the Turblown studs and they were pretty straight forward. Again, this is only something to look at when chasing big power.
Front Cover Gasket
The stock gasket is paper and has an O-ring to seal the oil passage going to the oil cooler. Atkins has the Cosmo metal front cover gasket, it's much more durable and is a foolproof install - literally just stick in in there, no O-ring, no RTV.
$35 for the stock gasket, $45 for the metal one. Get the metal one.
Dale
First, I'm going to talk mainly about the internal parts, the stuff to make the "short block". I may make another post about external stuff.
Apex Seals
This is the biggie, if you are opening an engine, you need apex seals. The only exception is if it's SUPER low mileage or something. These are the #1 wear item in the engine, hands down.
When in doubt, Mazda apex seals. They're tried and tested, tons of R&D goes into them, and they are of good quality. For a stock or near-stock build, I would just stick with them.
If you are chasing power, start looking at aftermarket seals. There are a few out there - RX Parts, Goopy, iRotary, Atkins, etc. etc. etc. Read up, ask questions, do your research. Many of them can take more detonation abuse than the stock ones and if it's hard enough they will bend, not break, saving the engine hard parts. Sometimes apex seal life can be compromised, though, you may not get the same amount of mileage but that's the price you pay if you are chasing big power.
The only things I will say to avoid are ceramic apex seals and 3mm apex seals. Ceramics are amazing but they are really for non-turbo race cars. They are VERY brittle and if they break in a turbo rotary (which they CAN break) they shatter into many tiny pieces which takes out EVERYTHING - all your hard parts, turbos, everything. Also they are $2000 a set.
3mm seals are leftover from the 90's. You mill the rotor out to take a thicker apex seal and run apex seals from the 1st gen RX-7. In theory thicker = less chance of breaking with detonation. The kicker is milling the rotors out is VERY hard and the shop is more likely to ruin the rotor. They don't seal well at low RPM and, yes, you can still break them. With modern tuning and wideband gauges there's just no reason.
About $350-400 for a set of Mazda seals, $400-500 for aftermarket.
Corner Seals
Mazda OEM is the way to go. Atkins has some solid ones and I've also seen metal plugs for them but I don't think it's worth it. I have heard of bad things happening with the solid corner seals - more iron wear - and really it's not worth it.
These can sometimes be re-used if budget is an issue. Look for notches in the side from the side seal and notches in the bottom from the corner seal spring. Too much and they have to be replaced.
About $100 for a set of 12.
Side Seals
Again, Mazda OEM, it's the only option. They can be re-used on a budget, they are the least to wear of the compression seals in the engine. They do need to be cleaned well though. Make sure the ends are square and there's not excessive wear on the bottom where the spring touches, when re-assembling they need to have that wear side down and be fit to the proper clearance.
About $250 for a set, and you'll want to get a few extras if it's your first time in case you screw one up badly. Springs are $30 for a set and you have to get them, they typically are destroyed on removal.
Oil Seals
I haven't talked much about these yet. There are round metal carriers in the center of the rotor that have O-rings in them, this keeps the oil that cools the rotor and lubricates the eccentric shaft where it should be. It's rare, but some FD's have had bad oil seals, this is typically from neglected oil changes or running low on oil for a long time. I've actually seen 2nd gen RX-7's with NO oil seals that had totally burned up, they smoke like insane.
For these I've been using Atkins Rotary's Viton oil seals for ages. They have them sorted out, they fit just as good as OEM, cost less, and I've yet to hear of a set that wears out prematurely.
You can also get the RX-8 seals which are Mazda-made Viton but they are MUCH more pricey.
The metal carriers for the oil seals rarely have significant wear, 99 times out of 100 I can re-use them and do re-use them. New from Mazda they are VERY pricey. You can buy new if you want, but really I think that's money you can use better elsewhere.
The springs under the seals also typically don't wear too much but they need a lot of cleaning. There is a spec in the shop manual for how much the seal with the spring should come up from the rotor, you can double-check this. If the spring has large wear spots and you aren't comfortable with it, buy new springs, they are a little pricey but not terrible.
Prices - Atkins' Viton seals, $40, Mazda $160, springs $50. Not sure on the casing pricing, I know it's deep into the hundreds.
Tension Bolts
These are pretty much infinitely re-useable. They aren't "stretch bolts" or something. Get new washers for them, clean them up, good to go.
You can get studs to replace the tension bolts to make the motor stiffer if you are seeking more power. I've installed the Turblown studs and they were pretty straight forward. Again, this is only something to look at when chasing big power.
Front Cover Gasket
The stock gasket is paper and has an O-ring to seal the oil passage going to the oil cooler. Atkins has the Cosmo metal front cover gasket, it's much more durable and is a foolproof install - literally just stick in in there, no O-ring, no RTV.
$35 for the stock gasket, $45 for the metal one. Get the metal one.
Dale
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HiWire (12-04-21)
12-06-21, 09:48 AM
#54
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top tip for these, they look really harmless, but it is the sharpest part of the engine. it is best to use an old oil seal to push the new ones in, you can do it by hand directly, but these things are sharp! in my first engine i used blood instead of vaseline on the rear rotor...
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12-06-21, 11:14 AM
#55
RX-7 Bad Ass
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Excellent point! They are CRAZY sharp.
I've been posting a bunch on this thread, I'd love to hear some of your experiences - either you doing it yourself or reasons why you don't feel up to the challenge.
Dale
I've been posting a bunch on this thread, I'd love to hear some of your experiences - either you doing it yourself or reasons why you don't feel up to the challenge.
Dale
12-06-21, 12:55 PM
#56
On this topic....
You can use Vaseline and/or Crisco on engine builds. I've used Vaseline as stated to help hold side seals/corner seals in place so they don't fall out on accident during assembly.
Had a friend use baby powder scent Vaseline once. Smelled like a burning diaper when they started the car.
Same goes for Crisco, had a friend build an engine with Butter Flavor Crisco. They fired up the car and said it smelled like something tasty in the oven.
I'll do a post at some point on chemicals and such for engine building.
Dale
You can use Vaseline and/or Crisco on engine builds. I've used Vaseline as stated to help hold side seals/corner seals in place so they don't fall out on accident during assembly.
Had a friend use baby powder scent Vaseline once. Smelled like a burning diaper when they started the car
.Same goes for Crisco, had a friend build an engine with Butter Flavor Crisco. They fired up the car and said it smelled like something tasty in the oven
.I'll do a post at some point on chemicals and such for engine building.
Dale
12-06-21, 02:21 PM
#57
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i've built engines on milk crates, garbage cans, the genuine Mazda tool. ive done stock street cars and a few race cars. the last engine i built is in a Lemons car https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...s-car-1150848/ we just did the 3rd outing with no issues, other than it making enough torque to pull all the teeth off the ring gear... the highlight, is probably FM's car, the Mazda people liked it so much that they asked us to bring it on track with their cars, which is like the coolest thing ever. i never would have thought that i could be out on the race track with a 787B in a car i helped build, go to Sevenstock! we also made it onto Jalopnik, the 80's are a short trip for me
https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...build-1087150/in like 2006 or something i bought a set of Peripheral Port housings, and my year end bonus was a pair of rotors and an E shaft. i was intimidated to build something like that, a because its a crazy race engine, and then B none of the housings are replaceable, so i ended up measuring everything, and it turned out really well (the PP is not any different to build), so these days i just measure everything and replace as needed.
enough of that, here are some tips!
1. PUT THE FLYWHEEL NUT BACK ON THE E SHAFT! if you screw up the e shaft thread, you need to take the engine apart, so put the nut back on, and the threads will be protected.
2. KEEP THE NUT ON THE E SHAFT. this one time, Steve built his REPU engine, and boogered up the threads, and of course this was Sunday night and he needed to be at work on Monday...
3. the F and R on the rotor housings matter. there is an air injection passage that only gets drilled on one side (its not a big deal to drill another one if needed). back in the 90's there was a very internet famous yellow FD that pettit built, and it came to California, and even after all the stock smog stuff was back on it still failed because Pettit put the housings backwards. so to register the car, it needed an engine. i know you don't think this applies to you, but you're wrong.
4. the shop manual makes a small deal about being able to put each seal back in the groove it came from, and even if you plan on replacing everything it is still good practice to be able to do that. Mazda had a nice wood seal case. although draw two rotors with numbered grooves on pieces of paper and using trays works just as well.
5. i run a tap or thread cleaner in every hole, it takes forever but it goes back together easier. this tip works all over the car...
5a. i use a torque wrench on as much stuff as i can. for anything on the engine, i use the lower end of the spec. for the suspension/chassis i go to the maximum, i'm following the competition prep book. i hate to say it, but i've had fewer issues after the first startup doing this.
5c. Steve built an engine with Kenny, and it went like a quarter mile and locked up. when they pulled it apart the oil pump bolts had fallen out, they each though the other guy did that....
6. make your workspace manageable. if you are sore or you back hurts or something you're doing it wrong. you really shouldn't need to do anything harder than lift one housing at a time. go step by step and lay the bits out for each step, preferably at the same level as the engine. i can't find it just right this second, but there is video of the Mazda guys building the engine, and it looks easy
-mike
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12-06-21, 02:29 PM
#58
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for a bonus, the way these engines get sold keeps changing, the assembled long blocks are still available but the back order is really really long right now, however they also did this
https://www.mazda.co.jp/globalassets...parts_list.pdf
Mazda USA actually has these, so its becoming an option to actually built an engine again
https://www.mazda.co.jp/globalassets...parts_list.pdf
Mazda USA actually has these, so its becoming an option to actually built an engine again
12-06-21, 02:51 PM
#59
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All excellent points!
The PDF from Mazda is interesting, some of the internal parts seem to be MUCH cheaper than I've seen elsewhere. I'm wondering if they've dropped prices some? Corner seals for $5-6 each is mighty nice, for example.
You make a good point - having a clean, organized work space is the way to go. You really don't need a LOT of room, just a clean, well-lit, organized area to work in. That's more of an elbow grease and prior planning thing, spend some time getting your area together so you aren't tripping on things, can't find parts or tools, or worst case losing expensive new parts.
Dale
The PDF from Mazda is interesting, some of the internal parts seem to be MUCH cheaper than I've seen elsewhere. I'm wondering if they've dropped prices some? Corner seals for $5-6 each is mighty nice, for example.
You make a good point - having a clean, organized work space is the way to go. You really don't need a LOT of room, just a clean, well-lit, organized area to work in. That's more of an elbow grease and prior planning thing, spend some time getting your area together so you aren't tripping on things, can't find parts or tools, or worst case losing expensive new parts.
Dale
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12-06-21, 03:26 PM
#60
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Parts Part 2. for all the complaining about reliability the FD engine hasn't changed much from 1992 to now. the changes have been applied to everything, so the only available parts are the newest spec.
in 1996 the front cover gets deleted, and the front iron changes from an N3A1 casting to the N3F1 casting. the front cover o ring groove disappears and the front cover gasket becomes the metal one, N390-10-502
in 1999 (actually summer of 1998) the metering nozzles in the rotor housings change to the "99 spec" you can ID these, the old housings have a metering insert in the housing that has a slot like a flat head screw driver, the new ones are pressed in.
the actual oil nozzles were updated too. the rear iron turns to an N3G1 casting, not sure why, it does have a plug for the oil pressure port, but they must have changed something else too.
in 2003 the apex seals change from 3 piece to 2 piece. it also switches to the Rx8 rotor oil seal, although not exactly sure what the difference is.
due to the trouble that even Mazda has of getting an Rx8 engine to run the current engines are actually started and run before being packaged up, kind of surprised to see that, but i asked and that is what filtered back
in 1996 the front cover gets deleted, and the front iron changes from an N3A1 casting to the N3F1 casting. the front cover o ring groove disappears and the front cover gasket becomes the metal one, N390-10-502
in 1999 (actually summer of 1998) the metering nozzles in the rotor housings change to the "99 spec" you can ID these, the old housings have a metering insert in the housing that has a slot like a flat head screw driver, the new ones are pressed in.
the actual oil nozzles were updated too. the rear iron turns to an N3G1 casting, not sure why, it does have a plug for the oil pressure port, but they must have changed something else too.
in 2003 the apex seals change from 3 piece to 2 piece. it also switches to the Rx8 rotor oil seal, although not exactly sure what the difference is.
due to the trouble that even Mazda has of getting an Rx8 engine to run the current engines are actually started and run before being packaged up, kind of surprised to see that, but i asked and that is what filtered back
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12-06-21, 04:00 PM
#61
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You make a good point - having a clean, organized work space is the way to go. You really don't need a LOT of room, just a clean, well-lit, organized area to work in. That's more of an elbow grease and prior planning thing, spend some time getting your area together so you aren't tripping on things, can't find parts or tools, or worst case losing expensive new parts.
Dale
Dale
one of the other dealerships had a shop foreman that used to say profound things like "it can't fall off the floor" so if i'm not working on a part it tends to get put on the floor. i also like to not clean the stuff that rusts (eshaft, oil pump gears etc) until i'm ready for them.
depending on how good/bad the place i'm building the engine is, i might just lay out the whole thing, the lemons car came from a blackberry bush and the engine was in a plastic tub, so i think i spent more time looking for bolts and stuff than actually building the engine.
i guess it takes me about an hour or two to tear the engine apart. maybe 3-4 to measure and inspect stuff to order parts, and another 3-4 to fit all the seals. cleaning is like 12, but it feels like 100... once you have it cleaned, the seals fitted and the whole thing laid out, actually putting it together is like 45 minutes to an hour, lol. the record around here is something like 10 hours from driving the car into the stall to driving it out, but we're just not in that kind of hurry anymore, especially at the racetrack!
(when my friends and i were doing the 25 hour races the guy next to us did TWO engines in 25 hours, in an E36 M3)
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12-07-21, 02:23 PM
#62
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Parts Part 2. for all the complaining about reliability the FD engine hasn't changed much from 1992 to now. the changes have been applied to everything, so the only available parts are the newest spec.
in 1996 the front cover gets deleted, and the front iron changes from an N3A1 casting to the N3F1 casting. the front cover o ring groove disappears and the front cover gasket becomes the metal one, N390-10-502
in 1999 (actually summer of 1998) the metering nozzles in the rotor housings change to the "99 spec" you can ID these, the old housings have a metering insert in the housing that has a slot like a flat head screw driver, the new ones are pressed in.
the actual oil nozzles were updated too. the rear iron turns to an N3G1 casting, not sure why, it does have a plug for the oil pressure port, but they must have changed something else too.
in 2003 the apex seals change from 3 piece to 2 piece. it also switches to the Rx8 rotor oil seal, although not exactly sure what the difference is.
due to the trouble that even Mazda has of getting an Rx8 engine to run the current engines are actually started and run before being packaged up, kind of surprised to see that, but i asked and that is what filtered back
in 1996 the front cover gets deleted, and the front iron changes from an N3A1 casting to the N3F1 casting. the front cover o ring groove disappears and the front cover gasket becomes the metal one, N390-10-502
in 1999 (actually summer of 1998) the metering nozzles in the rotor housings change to the "99 spec" you can ID these, the old housings have a metering insert in the housing that has a slot like a flat head screw driver, the new ones are pressed in.
the actual oil nozzles were updated too. the rear iron turns to an N3G1 casting, not sure why, it does have a plug for the oil pressure port, but they must have changed something else too.
in 2003 the apex seals change from 3 piece to 2 piece. it also switches to the Rx8 rotor oil seal, although not exactly sure what the difference is.
due to the trouble that even Mazda has of getting an Rx8 engine to run the current engines are actually started and run before being packaged up, kind of surprised to see that, but i asked and that is what filtered back
IMHO the 2 piece apex seals seem more robust to me.
For the RX-8 rotor oil seals, I assume you mean the oil control o-rings? I know the RX-8 has Viton o-rings which handle the heat a lot better.
Dale
12-07-21, 05:55 PM
#63
One of the things I worry most about while planning my families next move is not having a reputable rotary shop near me (low on the priority list, but still present). Over the years I've grown accustomed to reading (and saving) threads that don't necessarily pertain to my current situation, but could potentially help me out in the long run (a lot of those being written by you Dale, one I referred to recently was your HKS V-mount thread) and this one gives me the ultimate amount of confidence and will certain go towards the top of my subscribed threads! This knowledge is GREATLY appreciated!!
Last edited by Manny_Apex; 12-08-21 at 11:10 AM.
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12-08-21, 08:50 AM
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12-08-21, 08:51 AM
#66
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i don't, best thing is that PDF which shows the old style ones
12-08-21, 10:24 AM
#67
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Cleaning
This is, hands down, the most time consuming process of the whole rebuild. Really you could opt out of a lot of the cleaning but personally I want everything to be as close to new as possible when I put it together.
If you read my earlier posts, I typically break an engine rebuild project into 4 weekends. One of the weekends is JUST for cleaning.
Really you can just use a garden hose, some degreaser, and a scrub brush for a lot of it. There are things that will make the process easier/faster of course but you don't need to have them.
As the engine build goes along you will keep discovering more stuff that needs cleaning. It really doesn't end.
All that said, I'll go through my process. This works for me, there are MANY ways to clean stuff and other techniques may work better for you or for your situation.
Pressure Washer
This has been a game changer for me for cleaning. I have a Ryobi electric pressure washer -
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-23...2300/300405751
It's 80-90% the power of a gas-powered pressure washer, but doesn't constantly run out of gas, it's not large and bulky, and it's not VERY LOUD the whole time you are using it.
I pressure wash damn near everything. General technique is to go over it with the pressure washer to knock the crud off of it, spray purple degreaser onto the part and scrub with a brush, pressure wash again, repeat until clean.
The Ryobi has a tip that has a single "beam" of water that rotates in a circle super fast. I've found that does awesome for most everything I do, it's not too aggressive but it takes stuff off wonderfully.
I typically do all this in my driveway on a nice day. Be sure to wear eye protection as it can blast crap back into your face if you aren't careful. Nitrile gloves are also a great idea, the purple degreaser will get your hands REALLY funky.
It's also worth putting down some plastic or something (like a lid from a plastic storage container) to work on so you aren't scooting an engine part around on the concrete.
An example - say I'm cleaning the rear iron. I'll remove the stationary gear (it typically doesn't need much cleaning, just a once-over on the bolt side). Hit it with the pressure washer all over to get large dirt and crud off, the back end typically has a ton of junk like clutch dust on it. Then, spray it all down with the degreaser and scrub with a stiff nylon bristle brush. Hit it again with the pressure washer. Make sure the coolant passages get a good once-over, get any junk that was in the cooling system off as best you can.
Once any cast iron parts are good and cleaned up, I sit them in the sun to dry off, using compressed air helps a lot. Once it's 80-90% dry, spray the whole thing down with WD-40. This will coat the cast iron to keep it from flash rusting - this happens faster than you would think. Make sure to get into all the nooks and crannies with the WD-40. I do this on all the engine hard parts - rotors, rotor housings, irons, flywheel, etc. Even the cast aluminum stuff can benefit from a coat of WD-40, aluminum will get a whitish powder on it that's aluminum corrosion, it takes longer to appear, though.
Cleaning Rotors
This can be one of the more time consuming things to clean. Also you need to be VERY CAREFUL with rotors, if you accidentally drop or set one down roughly it can mash in the corner where the apex seal and corner seal all meet, once that's done that rotor is JUNK.
First thing is to get ALL the seals and springs out of the rotor. I typically put them all in a Ziploc bag. You want to be certain you've got everything - all the side seal springs, oil seals and springs, etc. You can use an X-Acto knife to help pick a lot of that stuff out, it works really well to get those fine components out.
With it "naked" I set it face down on the driveway on top of something soft - usually a plastic lid or something. Pressure wash and degrease, get the oil out of it and the general coating of oil and crap off.
To get all the carbon off the face of the rotor, I use a bench grinder with a wire wheel on it. Wear THICK mechanics type gloves and eye protection, that wire wheel will take off skin VERY quickly and it's VERY easy to hit that wheel. Start on a rotor face with the wheel, go back and forth and watch the carbon disappear. This makes a big mess I move my grinder outside (t's on a rolling stand) to do this, you are flinging carbon every damn where.
For the sides of the rotor where the side seals go, using a brass brush and degreaser is typically your best option. You can also do this on the whole rotor if you don't have a bench grinder, it takes more time but it does work.
DO NOT DO ANY CLEANING OR SCRUBBING TO THE ROTOR BEARING. First off, if it has oil on it you can just hose or wipe off, that's it. That is SOFT bearing metal.
Once the rotor is as clean as you can get it, spray it all with WD-40 and bring inside. Set down on your workbench and get an old side seal. Spray some WD-40 in the side seal grooves and use the tip of the old side seal to go back and forth through the groove to get the carbon out of the groove. It will "float" up to the top of the WD-40, wipe it up and do it again until you get nothing out. The side seal should be able to move all the way along that groove without hitting an obstruction or anything, if so there's still carbon in there.
For the corner seal holes, use an X-Acto knife or pick to get the carbon out.
Apex seal groove, an old apex seal works well, just get it all cleaned out good so the seal moves easily through the slot.
Near the oil seals there's usually spots where there is a good bit of carbon, using a small wire wheel on a Dremel helps here.
Once it's as clean as you can get it, coat again with WD-40 and put in a safe place.
Internal components
The eccentric shaft, front cover bearings, etc. typically need little to no cleaning. They have a nice coat of oil on them, just wipe down with a towel if there's debris from the disassembly on them and maybe WD-40 them. I usually keep the eccentric shaft on a bed of paper towels to reduce the chance of it getting scuffed.
Front stationary gear is typically fine, it may have some discoloring but that doesn't hurt anything. Rear stationary gear will need some cleaning on the bolt flange, a small scrub brush and some degreaser should be all you need. WD-40 when done. Again, the bearings need nothing - do NOT try and scrub them or anything.
Tension bolts
These get funky over time. The wire wheel on the bench grinder cleans them up very nicely. Pull all the old washers off, clean the heads and all along the body of the bolt. Many times I'll lay them all out and put a coat of black paint on them, just leave the threads un-coated.
Front Cover
The outside is typically REALLY damn dirty, pressure washer and scrubbing is the trick. If the engine had the paper gasket you're in for some work removing it. Scrape as much as you can off with razor blades, the stuff that's super stuck many times you can use a flap wheel on a Dremel to remove. The big thing is you want something that moves fast and is abrasive enough to remove the hard paper gasket but won't scar the surface of the flange the gasket needs to seal to.
Inside of the front cover is typically stained from oil over time, that's fine. Clean it but you don't have to try and make it look like bright aluminum, that won't be happening.
Water seal grooves
This is something that needs a little time with. I've found a small flat head screwdriver that fits JUST right into the water seal groove is the best tool for the job. Go around all the grooves and scrape any remnants of old seal out, keep going until it's totally clean. This is also a good way to find any weak spots in the groove or cracks in the support wall that could lead to a water seal failure. Get all 3 sides of the groove nice and clean, take your time here. If there's something left over in the grooves that could keep the new seal from seating properly and could be a premature failure.
Small parts
Parts like the oil seal casings I use a Scotchbrite pad and maybe some brake clean on. Bolts many times clean up with a scrub brush and degreaser, don't try and use something super aggressive like the bench grinder - it will look great at first but you can take all the zinc plating off and they will rust over time. If you can soak them or use an ultrasonic cleaner (Harbor Freight has them) that's a good way to go. Oil pan bolts are a chore, they're typically filthy and have RTV stuck to them. Tiny wire wheel on a Dremel is a good way to get the RTV and crap off, try and soak them first.
Other methods
Again, this is how I do it. Some of this may not work for you - for example, you wouldn't be out in the driveway with a pressure washer in Canada in winter, or in California during water rationing. You can get parts washers from Harbor Freight and other vendors, basically a tank of degreaser with a pump and brush. They do work well but they take up a lot of space.
You will also want to spend some good time cleaning the engine bay, again the pressure washer/degreaser/brush method typically works great here. You can also clean it "waterless" with a bunch of microfiber towels and a degreaser. This is worth taking some time with.
This is a whole thing that you can go way down a rabbit hole on. There is also stuff like hot tanking, professional parts cleaners in machine shops (like a giant dishwasher), media blasting, etc. etc. etc. The thing is to find what works in your situation and will get the job done without harming the part. Heck, back in my early days I remember scrubbing parts in the bathtub of the rental house I was in.
Painting/Powdercoating
This is another deep rabbit hole. I'll do another post at some point on the "while you're in there's" that can get to you.
Yes it can be cool to paint or powder coat an engine. Just take your time to mask stuff properly, you don't want paint on sealing surfaces, bolt holes, bolt/stud heads, etc. Also remember that you really can't see the short block very well when it's in the car.
A lot of high-temp spray paint does OK but over time it can flake off, yellow, etc. I've found that just nice clean parts look better and look better long term. Powdercoating typically needs a shop that can do the work and you have to hope they don't drop a rotor housing or lose some small bolt you forgot to remove. Definitely want to weigh the cost/benefit to doing something like this. Also remember any ground points on the engine will need to have paint or powder coat removed, you can't move electricity through it.
Again, this all takes time to do right but it's totally worth it. This will also give you some "up close" time with all the parts and give you more opportunities to find anything that could be a problem. Now is definitely the time to find stuff that needs replacing or things you have to order. Also stay organized during the process. don't just pull bolts out of parts and leave them somewhere, if you do have to take sub-assemblies apart more make sure to bag and label.
Dale
This is, hands down, the most time consuming process of the whole rebuild. Really you could opt out of a lot of the cleaning but personally I want everything to be as close to new as possible when I put it together.
If you read my earlier posts, I typically break an engine rebuild project into 4 weekends. One of the weekends is JUST for cleaning.
Really you can just use a garden hose, some degreaser, and a scrub brush for a lot of it. There are things that will make the process easier/faster of course but you don't need to have them.
As the engine build goes along you will keep discovering more stuff that needs cleaning. It really doesn't end
.All that said, I'll go through my process. This works for me, there are MANY ways to clean stuff and other techniques may work better for you or for your situation.
Pressure Washer
This has been a game changer for me for cleaning. I have a Ryobi electric pressure washer -
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-23...2300/300405751
It's 80-90% the power of a gas-powered pressure washer, but doesn't constantly run out of gas, it's not large and bulky, and it's not VERY LOUD the whole time you are using it.
I pressure wash damn near everything. General technique is to go over it with the pressure washer to knock the crud off of it, spray purple degreaser onto the part and scrub with a brush, pressure wash again, repeat until clean.
The Ryobi has a tip that has a single "beam" of water that rotates in a circle super fast. I've found that does awesome for most everything I do, it's not too aggressive but it takes stuff off wonderfully.
I typically do all this in my driveway on a nice day. Be sure to wear eye protection as it can blast crap back into your face if you aren't careful. Nitrile gloves are also a great idea, the purple degreaser will get your hands REALLY funky.
It's also worth putting down some plastic or something (like a lid from a plastic storage container) to work on so you aren't scooting an engine part around on the concrete.
An example - say I'm cleaning the rear iron. I'll remove the stationary gear (it typically doesn't need much cleaning, just a once-over on the bolt side). Hit it with the pressure washer all over to get large dirt and crud off, the back end typically has a ton of junk like clutch dust on it. Then, spray it all down with the degreaser and scrub with a stiff nylon bristle brush. Hit it again with the pressure washer. Make sure the coolant passages get a good once-over, get any junk that was in the cooling system off as best you can.
Once any cast iron parts are good and cleaned up, I sit them in the sun to dry off, using compressed air helps a lot. Once it's 80-90% dry, spray the whole thing down with WD-40. This will coat the cast iron to keep it from flash rusting - this happens faster than you would think. Make sure to get into all the nooks and crannies with the WD-40. I do this on all the engine hard parts - rotors, rotor housings, irons, flywheel, etc. Even the cast aluminum stuff can benefit from a coat of WD-40, aluminum will get a whitish powder on it that's aluminum corrosion, it takes longer to appear, though.
Cleaning Rotors
This can be one of the more time consuming things to clean. Also you need to be VERY CAREFUL with rotors, if you accidentally drop or set one down roughly it can mash in the corner where the apex seal and corner seal all meet, once that's done that rotor is JUNK.
First thing is to get ALL the seals and springs out of the rotor. I typically put them all in a Ziploc bag. You want to be certain you've got everything - all the side seal springs, oil seals and springs, etc. You can use an X-Acto knife to help pick a lot of that stuff out, it works really well to get those fine components out.
With it "naked" I set it face down on the driveway on top of something soft - usually a plastic lid or something. Pressure wash and degrease, get the oil out of it and the general coating of oil and crap off.
To get all the carbon off the face of the rotor, I use a bench grinder with a wire wheel on it. Wear THICK mechanics type gloves and eye protection, that wire wheel will take off skin VERY quickly and it's VERY easy to hit that wheel. Start on a rotor face with the wheel, go back and forth and watch the carbon disappear. This makes a big mess I move my grinder outside (t's on a rolling stand) to do this, you are flinging carbon every damn where.
For the sides of the rotor where the side seals go, using a brass brush and degreaser is typically your best option. You can also do this on the whole rotor if you don't have a bench grinder, it takes more time but it does work.
DO NOT DO ANY CLEANING OR SCRUBBING TO THE ROTOR BEARING. First off, if it has oil on it you can just hose or wipe off, that's it. That is SOFT bearing metal.
Once the rotor is as clean as you can get it, spray it all with WD-40 and bring inside. Set down on your workbench and get an old side seal. Spray some WD-40 in the side seal grooves and use the tip of the old side seal to go back and forth through the groove to get the carbon out of the groove. It will "float" up to the top of the WD-40, wipe it up and do it again until you get nothing out. The side seal should be able to move all the way along that groove without hitting an obstruction or anything, if so there's still carbon in there.
For the corner seal holes, use an X-Acto knife or pick to get the carbon out.
Apex seal groove, an old apex seal works well, just get it all cleaned out good so the seal moves easily through the slot.
Near the oil seals there's usually spots where there is a good bit of carbon, using a small wire wheel on a Dremel helps here.
Once it's as clean as you can get it, coat again with WD-40 and put in a safe place.
Internal components
The eccentric shaft, front cover bearings, etc. typically need little to no cleaning. They have a nice coat of oil on them, just wipe down with a towel if there's debris from the disassembly on them and maybe WD-40 them. I usually keep the eccentric shaft on a bed of paper towels to reduce the chance of it getting scuffed.
Front stationary gear is typically fine, it may have some discoloring but that doesn't hurt anything. Rear stationary gear will need some cleaning on the bolt flange, a small scrub brush and some degreaser should be all you need. WD-40 when done. Again, the bearings need nothing - do NOT try and scrub them or anything.
Tension bolts
These get funky over time. The wire wheel on the bench grinder cleans them up very nicely. Pull all the old washers off, clean the heads and all along the body of the bolt. Many times I'll lay them all out and put a coat of black paint on them, just leave the threads un-coated.
Front Cover
The outside is typically REALLY damn dirty, pressure washer and scrubbing is the trick. If the engine had the paper gasket you're in for some work removing it. Scrape as much as you can off with razor blades, the stuff that's super stuck many times you can use a flap wheel on a Dremel to remove. The big thing is you want something that moves fast and is abrasive enough to remove the hard paper gasket but won't scar the surface of the flange the gasket needs to seal to.
Inside of the front cover is typically stained from oil over time, that's fine. Clean it but you don't have to try and make it look like bright aluminum, that won't be happening.
Water seal grooves
This is something that needs a little time with. I've found a small flat head screwdriver that fits JUST right into the water seal groove is the best tool for the job. Go around all the grooves and scrape any remnants of old seal out, keep going until it's totally clean. This is also a good way to find any weak spots in the groove or cracks in the support wall that could lead to a water seal failure. Get all 3 sides of the groove nice and clean, take your time here. If there's something left over in the grooves that could keep the new seal from seating properly and could be a premature failure.
Small parts
Parts like the oil seal casings I use a Scotchbrite pad and maybe some brake clean on. Bolts many times clean up with a scrub brush and degreaser, don't try and use something super aggressive like the bench grinder - it will look great at first but you can take all the zinc plating off and they will rust over time. If you can soak them or use an ultrasonic cleaner (Harbor Freight has them) that's a good way to go. Oil pan bolts are a chore, they're typically filthy and have RTV stuck to them. Tiny wire wheel on a Dremel is a good way to get the RTV and crap off, try and soak them first.
Other methods
Again, this is how I do it. Some of this may not work for you - for example, you wouldn't be out in the driveway with a pressure washer in Canada in winter, or in California during water rationing. You can get parts washers from Harbor Freight and other vendors, basically a tank of degreaser with a pump and brush. They do work well but they take up a lot of space.
You will also want to spend some good time cleaning the engine bay, again the pressure washer/degreaser/brush method typically works great here. You can also clean it "waterless" with a bunch of microfiber towels and a degreaser. This is worth taking some time with.
This is a whole thing that you can go way down a rabbit hole on. There is also stuff like hot tanking, professional parts cleaners in machine shops (like a giant dishwasher), media blasting, etc. etc. etc. The thing is to find what works in your situation and will get the job done without harming the part. Heck, back in my early days I remember scrubbing parts in the bathtub of the rental house I was in
.Painting/Powdercoating
This is another deep rabbit hole. I'll do another post at some point on the "while you're in there's" that can get to you.
Yes it can be cool to paint or powder coat an engine. Just take your time to mask stuff properly, you don't want paint on sealing surfaces, bolt holes, bolt/stud heads, etc. Also remember that you really can't see the short block very well when it's in the car.
A lot of high-temp spray paint does OK but over time it can flake off, yellow, etc. I've found that just nice clean parts look better and look better long term. Powdercoating typically needs a shop that can do the work and you have to hope they don't drop a rotor housing or lose some small bolt you forgot to remove. Definitely want to weigh the cost/benefit to doing something like this. Also remember any ground points on the engine will need to have paint or powder coat removed, you can't move electricity through it
.Again, this all takes time to do right but it's totally worth it. This will also give you some "up close" time with all the parts and give you more opportunities to find anything that could be a problem. Now is definitely the time to find stuff that needs replacing or things you have to order. Also stay organized during the process. don't just pull bolts out of parts and leave them somewhere, if you do have to take sub-assemblies apart more make sure to bag and label.
Dale
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j9fd3s (12-08-21)
12-08-21, 12:53 PM
#68
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i start with a razor blade and just scrape off the big gunk (it can be over an inch thick)
Yes it can be cool to paint or powder coat an engine. remember that you really can't see the short block very well when it's in the car.
Dale
Dale
12-10-21, 09:55 AM
#69
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Mazda Remans. Mazda's contract with the NSU/Wankel people did not include the right to sell new engines in the USA, so Mazda USA had to have a reman program.
There were various facilities through the years, but the whole thing kind of falls into 3 groupings.
The reman engines came with the block, flywheel (if applicable), oil pan and water pump assembly. These engines got all new seals and gaskets, plus water pump and thermostat. These engines got housings as needed.
The oldest engines can be identified by a stamping on the front rotor housing right above where it says Mazda. its about 3 lines with a partial part number, serial number and a date. (when i find pics i'll put them in)
The Next facility, which was in operation from the late 90's to maybe 2005 was in Jacksonville Florida. These engines have a blue tag on the front cover, similar data, part number is a J008 something something. There is also a recycled my Mazda sticker on the oil pan, and they used this red dye like stuff on the tension bolts. They also would paint housings if it was needed. Often right over the grease. Mazda also had problems with parts going out the back door. some of these engines were pretty crappy, spray paint over the grease, chunks missing from the rotors. they always leaked from the oil pans
The Third facility was the same one AC Delco uses, these guys threw all the parts into one bucket, so they were building engines wrong, failure rate was like 100%, so this didn't last long
The Current facility was set up in the northeast somewhere, and they sent the guys back to Japan to get trained at the factory. you can ID these the same way as the Florida built engines, although the part number is different. N3G1-02-200R-V0 was the part number. i'm unfamiliar with these, as the prices went up, so when you add in the cost of resealing the oil pan, it was better to just rebuild the engine in the car if it wasn't too bad (often if a car had 80k on it, the cost of resealing the oil leaks and a clutch meant you might as well do the engine). Mazda would complain about not having enough core parts, and they would supplement with new engines, and then finally they just gave up trying to do remans and sell new now.
There were various facilities through the years, but the whole thing kind of falls into 3 groupings.
The reman engines came with the block, flywheel (if applicable), oil pan and water pump assembly. These engines got all new seals and gaskets, plus water pump and thermostat. These engines got housings as needed.
The oldest engines can be identified by a stamping on the front rotor housing right above where it says Mazda. its about 3 lines with a partial part number, serial number and a date. (when i find pics i'll put them in)
The Next facility, which was in operation from the late 90's to maybe 2005 was in Jacksonville Florida. These engines have a blue tag on the front cover, similar data, part number is a J008 something something. There is also a recycled my Mazda sticker on the oil pan, and they used this red dye like stuff on the tension bolts. They also would paint housings if it was needed. Often right over the grease. Mazda also had problems with parts going out the back door. some of these engines were pretty crappy, spray paint over the grease, chunks missing from the rotors. they always leaked from the oil pans
The Third facility was the same one AC Delco uses, these guys threw all the parts into one bucket, so they were building engines wrong, failure rate was like 100%, so this didn't last long
The Current facility was set up in the northeast somewhere, and they sent the guys back to Japan to get trained at the factory. you can ID these the same way as the Florida built engines, although the part number is different. N3G1-02-200R-V0 was the part number. i'm unfamiliar with these, as the prices went up, so when you add in the cost of resealing the oil pan, it was better to just rebuild the engine in the car if it wasn't too bad (often if a car had 80k on it, the cost of resealing the oil leaks and a clutch meant you might as well do the engine). Mazda would complain about not having enough core parts, and they would supplement with new engines, and then finally they just gave up trying to do remans and sell new now.
12-10-21, 11:10 AM
#71
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Yeah I remember the remans were a real grab bag. Sometimes you got a damn near new engine, sometimes you got one that was made of of total junk parts, stuff assembled backwards, you name it.
My car had a reman in it when I bought it. I blew the engine probably 20,000 miles later mainly from running too lean and thinking I was OK. Parts were decent when I rebuilt it, I think I trashed a rotor housing, I can't remember all the details, but the engine I built has been going for 15-20 years now no problems.
Thanks for the reman history, that's interesting stuff!
Dale
My car had a reman in it when I bought it. I blew the engine probably 20,000 miles later mainly from running too lean and thinking I was OK
. Parts were decent when I rebuilt it, I think I trashed a rotor housing, I can't remember all the details, but the engine I built has been going for 15-20 years now no problems.Thanks for the reman history, that's interesting stuff!
Dale
12-10-21, 12:07 PM
#72
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yeah the wording i think is something like they can sell new cars and parts, but not new engines or something.
12-10-21, 01:43 PM
#73
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OK, let's discuss a big thing to think about when building an engine....
"While I'm in there......"
This gets SO many people. Myself included. You're going through the effort of pulling the engine, taking it apart, etc. "Oh, I'll just do x, y, and z at that time!"
This doesn't seem like much, but this is a trap you can fall into if not careful.
There is literally no end of crap you can do to an engine when building it. Some things may make a substantial difference in power or longevity, some may help but no one knows for sure if they do, some things are just a waste of time and money.
So, what exactly am I going on about, and what are the pitfalls?
OK, so you blew your engine. That sucks. You want to rebuild it and have it be much stronger/faster/better than before - that blown engine was traumatizing, you don't want that to happen to your car ever again!
Pull the engine apart, apex seals are worn way down, rotor and rotor housing trashed. OK, what to do?
Let's buy a new rotor and rotor housing. Heck, let's buy 2 so each rotor will be brand new and match.
Boy, you just have to do some grinding to port the engine. You saw an Instagram of a car with a rad Bridgeport that idles so crazy, let's do that!
Oh, let's also lighten the rotors and have them clearanced and balanced, got to send them out for that.
Apex seals! Those stock ones broke, let's get super fancy ones.
That oil pan leaks, I want a big billet pan that won't leak on me!
Sure would look cool to have everything powder coated in a rad color scheme, let's do that. Also let's re-do that crispy wiring harness with a motorsports grade harness that gets rid of all that dumb emissions stuff and has a quick firewall disconnect! Just like a race car!
All these vacuum lines for the twins are dumb, I'm going to get a single turbo, that will be so much better!
Oh, I need a heavy clutch and a lightweight flywheel for all this power! And AN lines for fuel, need BIG injectors so we don't blow the engine again! And a new computer that can be tuned and have safeties to keep me from blowing the engine!
And on, and on, and on....
Then months go by. The powdercoaters lost some of the bolts and brackets. The shop working on your new rotors is backlogged so they take 6 months. You spend tens of thousands on parts that are all over the garage. You LOSE some of those expensive parts.
This many times ends up as a) a "project car" that's sold in Rubbermaid tubs for pennies on the dollar. B) A parts car that you just sell everything because you are sick of it and send the frame to the junkyard because it sat outside for 2 years and is now covered in rust and mold. C) you actually get it to start, but it won't run right, things leak, it's super annoying at idle with the bridge port, it makes NO low end power so it's awful to drive around on the street, you are sweating and stinky with no AC and no cat, and the car sucks to drive so you again sell it or let it rot for years then it gets parted out or scrapped.
THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. I've personally seen this. Hell, my old FC fell into this trap - I pulled the ENTIRE car apart, re-wired everything, built the engine, did all this crap and had an obnoxious car I hated to drive. Sold it at a big loss.
So, how do you not fall into this trap?
First off, set a budget. Be realistic. Don't spend money just to spend money - there's no sense putting tons of money into neat-o extras when the car has a ratty interior, 25 year old dry rotted tires, and the paint is shot. Spend the money where it needs to be spent.
Second, be realistic with what you will be doing with the car. 90% of FD's are street driven cars. There is a HUGE HUGE difference between a street car and a race car that many people don't grasp. "Oh, I drive my car HARD, I'm going to do x,y, and z!" No, you don't. Race cars at at 100% throttle ALL THE TIME for a LONG TIME. You will NEVER EVER do that in the street - there are things like other cars, stop signs, and traffic lights that they don't have on a race track. 99% of the time you are cruising around the speed limit, stopped at a stop light, stuck in traffic, etc. Don't build a car for racing when you aren't racing it. Even a dual-purpose car that you take to the track every now and again STILL isn't a race car.
Third, stay organized and focused. This is why I keep saying to label, bag, and take pictures. If you have a project you don't know how to put back together, you put it off and never get anywhere on it. If you can't find parts because you've misplaced them, that will set you back big time. You need to keep moving the project forward, even if you just do a little cleaning at night, keep moving. If you lose momentum, it's REALLY hard to get back in the saddle - it's much easier to do nothing than to keep hacking away at it.
Forth, keep changes to a minimum if possible. The more stuff you change, especially external stuff (coils, fuel system, ECU) the less likely you'll have a car that will start right up and run. Any complicated system is worth doing things one at a time and verifying they work before going to the next step. Look at the countless "my car won't start" posts, many times it's from people doing WAY too much at the same time. Also, a lot of these things (fuel upgrade, turbo upgrade, etc.) don't have to be done with the engine out of the car, you can easily do that with the engine in. The closer to stock a set up is, the easier it is to troubleshoot and get running.
Finally, realize when you DO have to stop and re-assess. Starting to put things back together and realize a part is bad or falling apart? Stop, order the right part - don't get some junk from the parts store and try and hack it. Don't have the right tool? Stop and get it. If you take shortcuts, it WILL bite you in the ***. Decided to go single turbo and you're starting to realize that you don't have the money to comfortably do it? Stop, put the twins back on, get the car running. When in doubt, post up on the forum and get some solid advice.
Dale
"While I'm in there......"
This gets SO many people. Myself included. You're going through the effort of pulling the engine, taking it apart, etc. "Oh, I'll just do x, y, and z at that time!"
This doesn't seem like much, but this is a trap you can fall into if not careful.
There is literally no end of crap you can do to an engine when building it. Some things may make a substantial difference in power or longevity, some may help but no one knows for sure if they do, some things are just a waste of time and money.
So, what exactly am I going on about, and what are the pitfalls?
OK, so you blew your engine. That sucks. You want to rebuild it and have it be much stronger/faster/better than before - that blown engine was traumatizing, you don't want that to happen to your car ever again!
Pull the engine apart, apex seals are worn way down, rotor and rotor housing trashed. OK, what to do?
Let's buy a new rotor and rotor housing. Heck, let's buy 2 so each rotor will be brand new and match.
Boy, you just have to do some grinding to port the engine. You saw an Instagram of a car with a rad Bridgeport that idles so crazy, let's do that!
Oh, let's also lighten the rotors and have them clearanced and balanced, got to send them out for that.
Apex seals! Those stock ones broke, let's get super fancy ones.
That oil pan leaks, I want a big billet pan that won't leak on me!
Sure would look cool to have everything powder coated in a rad color scheme, let's do that. Also let's re-do that crispy wiring harness with a motorsports grade harness that gets rid of all that dumb emissions stuff and has a quick firewall disconnect! Just like a race car!
All these vacuum lines for the twins are dumb, I'm going to get a single turbo, that will be so much better!
Oh, I need a heavy clutch and a lightweight flywheel for all this power! And AN lines for fuel, need BIG injectors so we don't blow the engine again! And a new computer that can be tuned and have safeties to keep me from blowing the engine!
And on, and on, and on....
Then months go by. The powdercoaters lost some of the bolts and brackets. The shop working on your new rotors is backlogged so they take 6 months. You spend tens of thousands on parts that are all over the garage. You LOSE some of those expensive parts.
This many times ends up as a) a "project car" that's sold in Rubbermaid tubs for pennies on the dollar. B) A parts car that you just sell everything because you are sick of it and send the frame to the junkyard because it sat outside for 2 years and is now covered in rust and mold. C) you actually get it to start, but it won't run right, things leak, it's super annoying at idle with the bridge port, it makes NO low end power so it's awful to drive around on the street, you are sweating and stinky with no AC and no cat, and the car sucks to drive so you again sell it or let it rot for years then it gets parted out or scrapped.
THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. I've personally seen this. Hell, my old FC fell into this trap - I pulled the ENTIRE car apart, re-wired everything, built the engine, did all this crap and had an obnoxious car I hated to drive. Sold it at a big loss.
So, how do you not fall into this trap?
First off, set a budget. Be realistic. Don't spend money just to spend money - there's no sense putting tons of money into neat-o extras when the car has a ratty interior, 25 year old dry rotted tires, and the paint is shot. Spend the money where it needs to be spent.
Second, be realistic with what you will be doing with the car. 90% of FD's are street driven cars. There is a HUGE HUGE difference between a street car and a race car that many people don't grasp. "Oh, I drive my car HARD, I'm going to do x,y, and z!" No, you don't. Race cars at at 100% throttle ALL THE TIME for a LONG TIME. You will NEVER EVER do that in the street - there are things like other cars, stop signs, and traffic lights that they don't have on a race track. 99% of the time you are cruising around the speed limit, stopped at a stop light, stuck in traffic, etc. Don't build a car for racing when you aren't racing it. Even a dual-purpose car that you take to the track every now and again STILL isn't a race car.
Third, stay organized and focused. This is why I keep saying to label, bag, and take pictures. If you have a project you don't know how to put back together, you put it off and never get anywhere on it. If you can't find parts because you've misplaced them, that will set you back big time. You need to keep moving the project forward, even if you just do a little cleaning at night, keep moving. If you lose momentum, it's REALLY hard to get back in the saddle - it's much easier to do nothing than to keep hacking away at it.
Forth, keep changes to a minimum if possible. The more stuff you change, especially external stuff (coils, fuel system, ECU) the less likely you'll have a car that will start right up and run. Any complicated system is worth doing things one at a time and verifying they work before going to the next step. Look at the countless "my car won't start" posts, many times it's from people doing WAY too much at the same time. Also, a lot of these things (fuel upgrade, turbo upgrade, etc.) don't have to be done with the engine out of the car, you can easily do that with the engine in. The closer to stock a set up is, the easier it is to troubleshoot and get running.
Finally, realize when you DO have to stop and re-assess. Starting to put things back together and realize a part is bad or falling apart? Stop, order the right part - don't get some junk from the parts store and try and hack it. Don't have the right tool? Stop and get it. If you take shortcuts, it WILL bite you in the ***. Decided to go single turbo and you're starting to realize that you don't have the money to comfortably do it? Stop, put the twins back on, get the car running. When in doubt, post up on the forum and get some solid advice.
Dale
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12-10-21, 05:15 PM
#74
Alright dumb question before I place an order for the engine stand adapter, should I also grab the "cooling system pressure tester" over at Pineapple Racing or would that be more of a "want/not really needed" tool instead of a "needed/good to have" tool?
12-11-21, 07:34 AM
#75
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DaleClark (12-11-21)