3rd Generation Specific (1993-2002) 1993-2002 Discussion including performance modifications and Technical Support Sections.
Sponsored by:

Lean on the Dyno and other issues...

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Nov 29, 2005 | 12:03 PM
  #1  
cozmo kraemer's Avatar
Thread Starter
Darkside FD
Tenured Member 15 Years
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 0
From: AZ
Lean on the Dyno and other issues...

'94 with Street Port
still sequential
ported and balanced stock twins
downpipe
mid pipe with high flow cat
racing beat catback
"custom" intake box

PFS purple is the engine management
Fuel pump is supposed to be a Bonez upgraded version
Stock fuel injectors

77K miles on chasis....1500miles on rebuild.

Put the car on the dyno last week to try to verify the previous owners claims. I tell the dyno operator (very competent guy I trust) to be very cautious with the car.

DynoDynamics dyno

Car started the run running about 14:1 afr, at the transition (4500rpm) it went down to about 13.5:1 then started climbing (steady slope) where it peaked at 15:1 at 6000rpm. Rich was letting off at this point. The car was only making about 6 psi of boost with the normal dip then recovery at 4500rpm...holding 6 psi all the way till he let off.

The good news is the car still laid down 262 hp at 5200rpm with only 6psi and tuning issues.

My question is: What would cause the car to go so lean? When the car is at normal operating temp the idle exhaust smells like a hairdryer...just hot air (does not smell of fuel). I am real worried that something might be terribly wrong...but it still starts right up. I have had hunting idle issues, but I bumped the idle to 1200rpm (using the coarse adjustment screw) and it is pretty steady since then.

Could I have vacum leaks? Would the car run a good boost patern if it did have vacum leaks (I realize I am running very low boost)? The car also makes like a throat clearing type of noise from the intake box when you rev then let off, anyone have any idea what this is?

i will post both charts (owner's provided vs. my results tonight when I get home)
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2005 | 12:45 PM
  #2  
XSTransAm's Avatar
Ee / Cpe
Tenured Member 05 Years
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 2
From: Gaithersburg, MD / WVU
Clogged fuel filter, poorly mapped ecu, check to make sure you boost hose to your fpr is attached and not leaking or clogged.

does the throat clearing noise sound like a mooo? could be your airpump
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2005 | 12:54 PM
  #3  
rajeevx7's Avatar
2 FD's since '98
Tenured Member 20 Years
iTrader: (11)
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,598
Likes: 7
From: West Palm Beach
Do you have the hand held controller for the ecu? With it you can easily find out exactly what your fuel is doing at what ever RPM. And it displays your injector pulse width and %.
Also, great numbers...but that is because your are so lean. Once you richen it to the correct AFR, your numbers will decline.
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2005 | 01:20 PM
  #4  
dubulup's Avatar
development
Tenured Member 15 Years
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 7
From: Lafayette, LA
6psi won't even make the transistion to both turbo's
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2005 | 01:36 PM
  #5  
cozmo kraemer's Avatar
Thread Starter
Darkside FD
Tenured Member 15 Years
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 0
From: AZ
Well maybe it isn't even transitioning but it has the classic transition dip then recovery.

I have the handheld controler but I havent even looked at it. The car was supposed to be fully tuned when I bought it.

I was thinking it maybe fuel pump related. Where are the injectors located? I would be willing to pull those have them cleaned and freshened...is it a tough job?

The throat clearing noise does kinda sound like a "mooo" I thought it may be airpump related...is it anything to worry about or fix?
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2005 | 01:50 PM
  #6  
alberto_mg's Avatar
Rotary Freak
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,690
Likes: 0
From: nyc+li, ny
it's probably tuning. whenever you buy a car with a recent rebuild you are always gambling that you just picked up someone else's problem. the lean mixture might be what caused the last motor to go.

i don't know much about that ECU, but i'd say go to the regional forums and see if you can find a tuner in your area that can tune that ECU or someone local who knows how to use it and can help you learn. or learn it yourself but be careful - rotaries do not like bad tuning and do not like to be run lean. all it takes is one ping and you're looking at another rebuild. i wouldn't even boost it running that lean.

one more thing. might want to go ahead and change the fuel filter anyway. preventative maintenance is always a good thing.

Last edited by alberto_mg; Nov 29, 2005 at 01:52 PM.
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2005 | 01:53 PM
  #7  
dubulup's Avatar
development
Tenured Member 15 Years
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 7
From: Lafayette, LA
you can tune it yourself, if you have use of a wide band...

https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...68&postcount=2
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2005 | 02:00 PM
  #8  
cozmo kraemer's Avatar
Thread Starter
Darkside FD
Tenured Member 15 Years
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 0
From: AZ
Maybe a dumb question...but how do I run no boost?

I know it will be wastegate related but are there any links I can go to in order to learn how to work on it?
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2005 | 02:08 PM
  #9  
dubulup's Avatar
development
Tenured Member 15 Years
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 7
From: Lafayette, LA
just keep your right foot off the floor...thats the safest way to run no boost
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2005 | 02:18 PM
  #10  
cozmo kraemer's Avatar
Thread Starter
Darkside FD
Tenured Member 15 Years
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 0
From: AZ
Well I haven't been about 4000rpm since I learned about the problems.

My daily driver is occupied so I have had to drive the 7 to work for a few days. After I get my 3 series back the 7 will be parked.

The dyno operator, and myself, seem to think this goes beyond tuning. Have any of you ever seen tuning right an AFR that is that wrong?
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2005 | 02:28 PM
  #11  
DaveW's Avatar
Racecar - Formula 2000
Tenured Member: 20 Years
 
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,027
Likes: 366
From: Bath, OH
This may be a stupid question, but:

How were you measuring the AFR's? Was the meter or instrument calibrated recently?

Is it possible the readings are wrong? Those AFR's would be lean enough that I'd have thought you might have had detonation, even with the low boost readings.
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2005 | 03:44 PM
  #12  
tcb100's Avatar
DinoDude
Tenured Member 20 Years
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 0
From: Harpers Ferry, West Virginia
You need to figure out how to adjust fuel, timing and boost with the hand controller. I can give you a couple of basic maps from my PMS unit that ought to put you in the ballpark. I have the interacq program on my laptop so I have no idea how to use the hand controller.

You can get the PMS user guide at

http://www.pfsupercars.com/
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2005 | 03:48 PM
  #13  
cozmo kraemer's Avatar
Thread Starter
Darkside FD
Tenured Member 15 Years
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 0
From: AZ
I have the guide. But I have no way to measure air fuel...I also have the interacq program and a laptop, along with the controller...so I think I am covered as far as that goes.

I still pose the question, "Can tuning alone be responsible for such high afrs?" I would think that the stock ECU would run richer than what it is running right now.


The dyno had 20 other cars go through it that day. The AFR was accurate for all of them. I figured myself to be safe in assuming that it was accurate for my car as well.
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2005 | 04:25 PM
  #14  
dubulup's Avatar
development
Tenured Member 15 Years
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 7
From: Lafayette, LA
go look at the maps loaded...and yes tuning can get A:F's that high.
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2005 | 06:49 PM
  #15  
tcb100's Avatar
DinoDude
Tenured Member 20 Years
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 0
From: Harpers Ferry, West Virginia
Setting one on the PMS is stock by the way, at least that's the way PFS sent them out so there would be no change from the factory ecu maps.

Load the map into interacq and look at it. The map is % increase over stock. Map 1 should be all zeros.

When you were dynoed which setting did you use? Setting 3 is race gas only.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Logan Reinisch
General Rotary Tech Support
44
Sep 17, 2018 12:20 PM
Rotate86
Single Turbo RX-7's
5
May 18, 2018 02:44 PM
Einheri
Single Turbo RX-7's
14
Oct 7, 2015 12:23 PM
93FD510
New Member RX-7 Technical
2
Oct 1, 2015 02:00 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:18 AM.