KnightSports V-Mount kit install write up + pics
01-08-08, 01:48 AM
#53
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Why the waterflow direction is changed?
In stock radiator, water flows top to bottom, but in this bottom to top.
Just becouse its easyer to manufacture, or is there "a reason" ?
In stock radiator, water flows top to bottom, but in this bottom to top.
Just becouse its easyer to manufacture, or is there "a reason" ?
01-08-08, 03:56 AM
#54
i'm not sure if the previous owner had load it with 134 or R12 so i unbolted the short hose on the side of the condenser enough to have the freon spraying.. then i held my breath and step'd out of the garage till the gas are out while opening the side door and had a fan blowing for a bit. kinda ghetto way.. but i didn't think about that untill my whole cooling system's taken out. Plus it was on a sunday, i wouldn't be able to tow it anywhere while needing my car for work on monday.
incase if it is r12, i apologize if i offended anyone. i do feel equally bad about running straight pipe out of this rotary.
Link,
Great job on the write up. I wish I had the tie to do one like this. Kids, school and work, plus wife does not leave me much time.
I just have to have my a/c line bent for the low side. I flipped my condenser so that the low side is at the bottom.
I also changed my mind to go single after the mock up of the v-mount. I am going to start my single install this weekend.
I went with this kit due to the quality and the JDM factor.
FDNewbie, are you still developing a kit of your own?
Great job on the write up. I wish I had the tie to do one like this. Kids, school and work, plus wife does not leave me much time.
I just have to have my a/c line bent for the low side. I flipped my condenser so that the low side is at the bottom.
I also changed my mind to go single after the mock up of the v-mount. I am going to start my single install this weekend.
I went with this kit due to the quality and the JDM factor.
FDNewbie, are you still developing a kit of your own?
were u able to mount all the holes on the a/c condenser bracket?? out of the 2 holes on each side i was only able to use one each. i almost feel like the bracket is a bit short especially on the passenger side.
nice man!! be sure to keep us posted on your turbo setup. i wanna see pics.. at least for now.. lol..
i bought this kit because no one else local is making a vmount unless custom made. I got tired of waiting for FDNewbie's kit so i went ahead and ordered this install friendly one. Personally, i favor cast/rounded IC end tanks, but this uniquely crafted KS IC will definitly look different than any other vmount kit.
last time i checked FDNewbie's releasing their kit soon..
.. I'm sure fdnewbie's vmount will be just as good if not better while being more cost effective. 
thanks
01-08-08, 04:31 AM
#55
i wish someone can explain this in further detail. The car is usually moving forward at highspeed, if driving force is pushing everything towards the back, its only logical to have the water flow from the front nose of the bumper towards the engine. Eventhough the way its designed allows the water to flow from bottom to top instead of stock mount's top to bottom due to the angle v-mounts are designed, essntially the water is still flowing the same direction.. towards the engine and hot air exiting out the back.
01-08-08, 07:10 AM
#56
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i wish someone can explain this in further detail. The car is usually moving forward at highspeed, if driving force is pushing everything towards the back, its only logical to have the water flow from the front nose of the bumper towards the engine. Eventhough the way its designed allows the water to flow from bottom to top instead of stock mount's top to bottom due to the angle v-mounts are designed, essntially the water is still flowing the same direction.. towards the engine and hot air exiting out the back.
And someone has tested the difference? The reason that im asking, is that i made my v-mount differently.
Radiator is angled top towards the rear of the car, and water is flowing towards the front of the car.
Well my car is mostly going side ways so it would't make much differece.
01-08-08, 08:56 AM
#57
i wish someone can explain this in further detail. The car is usually moving forward at highspeed, if driving force is pushing everything towards the back, its only logical to have the water flow from the front nose of the bumper towards the engine. Eventhough the way its designed allows the water to flow from bottom to top instead of stock mount's top to bottom due to the angle v-mounts are designed, essntially the water is still flowing the same direction.. towards the engine and hot air exiting out the back.
01-08-08, 08:59 AM
#58
Thanks for the quick reply Link. I'm kind of in the same situation as you were in. This is my DD and I'm getting rides from my co worker to get on base. I already started the tear down, and I can't just reinstall everything because I sold my I/C, and my rad is broken. I might do just what you did. How long did it take to vent? I'm also sorry to offend anyone also. I understand the legality of even touching the system since I'm not a certified a/c guy, and it is hazardous to our ozone, BUT that is not my concern. My concern was the hazard towards me really. Just wanted to know how Link did it.
-Jeff
-Jeff
01-08-08, 12:57 PM
#59
It'd be easier with a diagram, but suffice to say that "driving force" doesn't really have much to do with it... water is pumped.
In a V-Mount, the radiator is at an angle just like stock, but the high end is to the back, roughly laying on the core support, and the low end is down to the nose of the car. On the stock setup, there's a long hose that goes from the inlet by the filler neck, under the intake box, to the rad inlet on the high end, it goes through the rad once to the bottom, and out the other end. Since the rad is laying the other way in a V-mount, there isn't a really convenient way to reach the further (now low) end of the rad, so it's best that the inlet/oulet of the rad are both on the same (high) end... necessitating a two pass (at least) config where it enters one side, goes down through half the rad, cuts a "U" at the lower end tank, comes back up the other half, and out the other side of the same end.
In a V-Mount, the radiator is at an angle just like stock, but the high end is to the back, roughly laying on the core support, and the low end is down to the nose of the car. On the stock setup, there's a long hose that goes from the inlet by the filler neck, under the intake box, to the rad inlet on the high end, it goes through the rad once to the bottom, and out the other end. Since the rad is laying the other way in a V-mount, there isn't a really convenient way to reach the further (now low) end of the rad, so it's best that the inlet/oulet of the rad are both on the same (high) end... necessitating a two pass (at least) config where it enters one side, goes down through half the rad, cuts a "U" at the lower end tank, comes back up the other half, and out the other side of the same end.
i wish someone can explain this in further detail. The car is usually moving forward at highspeed, if driving force is pushing everything towards the back, its only logical to have the water flow from the front nose of the bumper towards the engine. Eventhough the way its designed allows the water to flow from bottom to top instead of stock mount's top to bottom due to the angle v-mounts are designed, essntially the water is still flowing the same direction.. towards the engine and hot air exiting out the back.
01-08-08, 01:19 PM
#60
i haven't sealed any of the gaps yet, been tied up a bit due to the holidays. I hope i can at least get some plates fabricated to seal off those gaps before my next tune. my water temp now w/out any ducting is the same as my Fluidyne that i had.. average steadly around 84-ish with ambient temp of mid 50s. intake temp on pfc is around 21-ish average. ofcourse that should drop a lot after i get all the holes covered.
i think the water flow direction is the same on most vmount radiators. probably real comparison would be those threads for SMIC vs VMIC. both setups get fresh air to the radiator, so there shouldn't be much difference in water temps. vmount setup is more wanting to get FMIC air temp w/out sacrificing the water temp.
the draining was real quick... probably didn't last more than a minute.
you are right, the water is pumped so regardless of the driving force the water will still be flowing. it does seem more like a design issue not to far route the radiator hose to keep the cooling efficient. if you look at the HKS vmount setup using a regular radiator, its flip'd upside down using the back side of the radiator to get fresh air. keeping the same water flow direction as any other vmount setup with modified rads. i can't elaborate too much on driving force effecting the water flow, but it does seem like all vmount kits are setup the same way
And someone has tested the difference? The reason that im asking, is that i made my v-mount differently.
Radiator is angled top towards the rear of the car, and water is flowing towards the front of the car.
Well my car is mostly going side ways so it would't make much differece.
Radiator is angled top towards the rear of the car, and water is flowing towards the front of the car.
Well my car is mostly going side ways so it would't make much differece.
Thanks for the quick reply Link. I'm kind of in the same situation as you were in. This is my DD and I'm getting rides from my co worker to get on base. I already started the tear down, and I can't just reinstall everything because I sold my I/C, and my rad is broken. I might do just what you did. How long did it take to vent? I'm also sorry to offend anyone also. I understand the legality of even touching the system since I'm not a certified a/c guy, and it is hazardous to our ozone, BUT that is not my concern. My concern was the hazard towards me really. Just wanted to know how Link did it.
-Jeff
-Jeff
It'd be easier with a diagram, but suffice to say that "driving force" doesn't really have much to do with it... water is pumped.
In a V-Mount, the radiator is at an angle just like stock, but the high end is to the back, roughly laying on the core support, and the low end is down to the nose of the car. On the stock setup, there's a long hose that goes from the inlet by the filler neck, under the intake box, to the rad inlet on the high end, it goes through the rad once to the bottom, and out the other end. Since the rad is laying the other way in a V-mount, there isn't a really convenient way to reach the further (now low) end of the rad, so it's best that the inlet/oulet of the rad are both on the same (high) end... necessitating a two pass (at least) config where it enters one side, goes down through half the rad, cuts a "U" at the lower end tank, comes back up the other half, and out the other side of the same end.
In a V-Mount, the radiator is at an angle just like stock, but the high end is to the back, roughly laying on the core support, and the low end is down to the nose of the car. On the stock setup, there's a long hose that goes from the inlet by the filler neck, under the intake box, to the rad inlet on the high end, it goes through the rad once to the bottom, and out the other end. Since the rad is laying the other way in a V-mount, there isn't a really convenient way to reach the further (now low) end of the rad, so it's best that the inlet/oulet of the rad are both on the same (high) end... necessitating a two pass (at least) config where it enters one side, goes down through half the rad, cuts a "U" at the lower end tank, comes back up the other half, and out the other side of the same end.
Last edited by RX7LINK; 01-08-08 at 01:30 PM.
01-08-08, 02:35 PM
#61
fwiw, i've been running my custom Vmount completely unducted for about 4 months now. During this time ambient temps have fluctuated from 90s during the San Diego summer to current 60s (day time). Here are a few data points:
My coolant temp typically stays at 85-87 C as long as the car is moving. This is with ambient temps between 60-90 F. Air temps typically average in the 20 C range as long as the car is moving.
When its below 50 F outside, the coolant temp is usually around 83 C. Air temp is around 20 C iirc.
On the occasions that I get stuck in rush hour traffic for 30+ minutes, the car will get as hot as 89 C coolant temps. My Fan 1 setting is set to engage the low fan at 89 C. Air temps start to rise in stopped traffic and eventually get to 30 C range. In dead stopped traffic, air temps have gotten as high as 40 C and once to 50 C.
I have yet to get higher than 89 C water temps.
I'm running Evans coolant which is supposed to run hotter than traditional Water + Coolant and stock twins.
The above temps do not change if I get on it hard for a while. I even took a few long boosted mountain runs and water temps have not gotten higher than 87 C running 10-12 PSI boost and beating on it.
Another thing that I noticed is that underhood temps are way down. And as a result of that, cabin temps are way down too so I don't need to use the A/C as much.
Vmount is a great setup for delivering combined low coolant and air temps.
My coolant temp typically stays at 85-87 C as long as the car is moving. This is with ambient temps between 60-90 F. Air temps typically average in the 20 C range as long as the car is moving.
When its below 50 F outside, the coolant temp is usually around 83 C. Air temp is around 20 C iirc.
On the occasions that I get stuck in rush hour traffic for 30+ minutes, the car will get as hot as 89 C coolant temps. My Fan 1 setting is set to engage the low fan at 89 C. Air temps start to rise in stopped traffic and eventually get to 30 C range. In dead stopped traffic, air temps have gotten as high as 40 C and once to 50 C.
I have yet to get higher than 89 C water temps.
I'm running Evans coolant which is supposed to run hotter than traditional Water + Coolant and stock twins.
The above temps do not change if I get on it hard for a while. I even took a few long boosted mountain runs and water temps have not gotten higher than 87 C running 10-12 PSI boost and beating on it.
Another thing that I noticed is that underhood temps are way down. And as a result of that, cabin temps are way down too so I don't need to use the A/C as much.
Vmount is a great setup for delivering combined low coolant and air temps.
01-08-08, 04:03 PM
#64
99 twins and all associated bolt ons
to give you an idea of power levels fwiw, @13 PSI, I dyno'ed ~335 rwhp 2-3 years ago
I'll probably be doing an HPDE session soon unducted to test some more (and b/c I've been too busy with work to fab ducting).
to give you an idea of power levels fwiw, @13 PSI, I dyno'ed ~335 rwhp 2-3 years ago
I'll probably be doing an HPDE session soon unducted to test some more (and b/c I've been too busy with work to fab ducting).
01-08-08, 04:43 PM
#65
fwiw, i've been running my custom Vmount completely unducted for about 4 months now. During this time ambient temps have fluctuated from 90s during the San Diego summer to current 60s (day time). Here are a few data points:
My coolant temp typically stays at 85-87 C as long as the car is moving. This is with ambient temps between 60-90 F. Air temps typically average in the 20 C range as long as the car is moving.
When its below 50 F outside, the coolant temp is usually around 83 C. Air temp is around 20 C iirc.
On the occasions that I get stuck in rush hour traffic for 30+ minutes, the car will get as hot as 89 C coolant temps. My Fan 1 setting is set to engage the low fan at 89 C. Air temps start to rise in stopped traffic and eventually get to 30 C range. In dead stopped traffic, air temps have gotten as high as 40 C and once to 50 C.
I have yet to get higher than 89 C water temps.
My coolant temp typically stays at 85-87 C as long as the car is moving. This is with ambient temps between 60-90 F. Air temps typically average in the 20 C range as long as the car is moving.
When its below 50 F outside, the coolant temp is usually around 83 C. Air temp is around 20 C iirc.
On the occasions that I get stuck in rush hour traffic for 30+ minutes, the car will get as hot as 89 C coolant temps. My Fan 1 setting is set to engage the low fan at 89 C. Air temps start to rise in stopped traffic and eventually get to 30 C range. In dead stopped traffic, air temps have gotten as high as 40 C and once to 50 C.
I have yet to get higher than 89 C water temps.
i forgot to mention too, my temps so far are very similar if not exact reading as yours in same ambient temp. ofcourse i haven't tested this setup at the track, but even 60-90+ degrees ambient temp, i've never seen anything higher than 89 degrees on the PFC. Even sitting in heavy traffic, if it gets that high, it drops down to 84-85ish as soon as i start driving. my fan is set to turn on at 87 and i run water wetter + 50/50 mix.
01-08-08, 10:35 PM
#67
I drained my R12 today the way you suggested Link, and it was quick, and easy. It's just gas, and the only liquid that came out was the leak test dye(green coloring stuff). I did some cutting for the radiator to fit, and amd about 30% into the install. This vmount is pretty time consuming to install. I wonder what my temps will be since I will be ducted.
-Jeff
-Jeff
01-09-08, 12:49 PM
#68
I drained my R12 today the way you suggested Link, and it was quick, and easy. It's just gas, and the only liquid that came out was the leak test dye(green coloring stuff). I did some cutting for the radiator to fit, and amd about 30% into the install. This vmount is pretty time consuming to install. I wonder what my temps will be since I will be ducted.
-Jeff
-Jeff
What did u cut for the radiator?? I'm anxious to see temp changes after ducting too. difference should be significant.
01-09-08, 02:18 PM
#69
The RE vmic requires some cutting of the black bar that the ast lines are ran along. It's just so the upper part of the rad (the returning pipe for the lower rad hose) can clear. Also, the RE vmic doesn't require cutting of the ps line, but they have a bracket to lower it. Your kit seems a whole lot more install friendly, but doing the extra work feel kind of good too. Feels more custom haha! About the R12, my uncle has some he can put in later. I just now need to worry about bending the lines...
01-11-08, 03:20 AM
#70
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ok, im in the process of doing my own v-mount but found that my intercooler will only fit when upside down (maybe its right side up but all the pics ive seen are opposite of what i have). my intercooler is like the one in the first pic.
i have the inlet/outlet towards the front of the car rather than towards the engine (as shown in second picture) this is the only way it will fit because of my intake mostly. i just wanted to double check to see if having my current setup will be ok (with proper ducting and all) before i finalize everything.
thanks guys and here is a pic of what i have got so far. dont mind the relay box and zipties...this is not final.
i have the inlet/outlet towards the front of the car rather than towards the engine (as shown in second picture) this is the only way it will fit because of my intake mostly. i just wanted to double check to see if having my current setup will be ok (with proper ducting and all) before i finalize everything.
thanks guys and here is a pic of what i have got so far. dont mind the relay box and zipties...this is not final.
Last edited by FDdragon; 01-11-08 at 03:38 AM.
01-11-08, 04:04 AM
#71
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I have archived this into a printable .doc file, with all credit given to author, for easier use during the project. if the author would like this file deleted please pm me, and if you would like a copy of this file for use please pm me your e-mail and write-up requested
01-11-08, 01:50 PM
#72
TRISPEEDFD3S: when you're bending the lines, you can use a wider diameter pipe or can as leverage while your bending around it, that way you won't get any sharp bends that blocks the flow.
FDdragon: i think your setup's nice and clean. seems like it fits perfectly right now. flipping the IC around isn't necessary because you're not using a FMIC core and your intake would get in the way. I really don't see the need for your setup to change. only reason to have shorter pipes is to increase boost response but any vmount setup is already shorter than all FMIC setup. by flipping the IC around and modifying your piping it won't really make too much noticeable difference. As long as you have a well vented hood, having the pipes crossing over the intercooler is totally fine. shouldn't heat soak the pipes much if any.
RotorDream: thanks for archiving. i think its a great idea. another one stop site to pull how-to's is always handy.
FDdragon: i think your setup's nice and clean. seems like it fits perfectly right now. flipping the IC around isn't necessary because you're not using a FMIC core and your intake would get in the way. I really don't see the need for your setup to change. only reason to have shorter pipes is to increase boost response but any vmount setup is already shorter than all FMIC setup. by flipping the IC around and modifying your piping it won't really make too much noticeable difference. As long as you have a well vented hood, having the pipes crossing over the intercooler is totally fine. shouldn't heat soak the pipes much if any.
RotorDream: thanks for archiving. i think its a great idea. another one stop site to pull how-to's is always handy.
01-25-08, 12:52 AM
#75
Just an update with my vmount. I've noticed pretty similar temps as gracer. I've just been watching temps for the past two days. Right now is it's pretty cold in the bay area, and raining a bit. Yesterday I noticed my water temps were around 81-85C. I need to raise my fan engage. I have this setup at 85 when my car was having cooling problems (changed out the thermostat and I was good, but havent changed the settings). Today had the same water temps.
As of air temps, I notice during the day I was averaging 20-24C. At night I averaged 15-18C. My car is still NOT DUCTED, and from the looks of it I might not need it. Though that might change in the summer, but I don't know until summer does come along and my temps get significantly higher (hope not).
Also, I wanted to mention that my vmount install has changed my whole view of this setup. before I had a Pettit Coolcharge II old version, and my engine bay would still be really hot. I touch the intake side of my intercool and it's hot. With the vmount, I touch the intake side of my intercooler, and it feels cold like it's been hanging out with frosty the snow man. I now chuckle everytime I park my car in the garage and open my hood after a long drive. Unbelievable is all I have to say about the vmic setup. Just curious to know if the bigger smic also notice this cold piping after a long drive (not meant as a sarcastic question. I'm serious to know since I've never had a ASP/M2 medium or large)?
-Jeff
As of air temps, I notice during the day I was averaging 20-24C. At night I averaged 15-18C. My car is still NOT DUCTED, and from the looks of it I might not need it. Though that might change in the summer, but I don't know until summer does come along and my temps get significantly higher (hope not).
Also, I wanted to mention that my vmount install has changed my whole view of this setup. before I had a Pettit Coolcharge II old version, and my engine bay would still be really hot. I touch the intake side of my intercool and it's hot. With the vmount, I touch the intake side of my intercooler, and it feels cold like it's been hanging out with frosty the snow man. I now chuckle everytime I park my car in the garage and open my hood after a long drive. Unbelievable is all I have to say about the vmic setup. Just curious to know if the bigger smic also notice this cold piping after a long drive (not meant as a sarcastic question. I'm serious to know since I've never had a ASP/M2 medium or large)?
-Jeff
fwiw, i've been running my custom Vmount completely unducted for about 4 months now. During this time ambient temps have fluctuated from 90s during the San Diego summer to current 60s (day time). Here are a few data points:
My coolant temp typically stays at 85-87 C as long as the car is moving. This is with ambient temps between 60-90 F. Air temps typically average in the 20 C range as long as the car is moving.
When its below 50 F outside, the coolant temp is usually around 83 C. Air temp is around 20 C iirc.
On the occasions that I get stuck in rush hour traffic for 30+ minutes, the car will get as hot as 89 C coolant temps. My Fan 1 setting is set to engage the low fan at 89 C. Air temps start to rise in stopped traffic and eventually get to 30 C range. In dead stopped traffic, air temps have gotten as high as 40 C and once to 50 C.
I have yet to get higher than 89 C water temps.
I'm running Evans coolant which is supposed to run hotter than traditional Water + Coolant and stock twins.
The above temps do not change if I get on it hard for a while. I even took a few long boosted mountain runs and water temps have not gotten higher than 87 C running 10-12 PSI boost and beating on it.
Another thing that I noticed is that underhood temps are way down. And as a result of that, cabin temps are way down too so I don't need to use the A/C as much.
Vmount is a great setup for delivering combined low coolant and air temps.
My coolant temp typically stays at 85-87 C as long as the car is moving. This is with ambient temps between 60-90 F. Air temps typically average in the 20 C range as long as the car is moving.
When its below 50 F outside, the coolant temp is usually around 83 C. Air temp is around 20 C iirc.
On the occasions that I get stuck in rush hour traffic for 30+ minutes, the car will get as hot as 89 C coolant temps. My Fan 1 setting is set to engage the low fan at 89 C. Air temps start to rise in stopped traffic and eventually get to 30 C range. In dead stopped traffic, air temps have gotten as high as 40 C and once to 50 C.
I have yet to get higher than 89 C water temps.
I'm running Evans coolant which is supposed to run hotter than traditional Water + Coolant and stock twins.
The above temps do not change if I get on it hard for a while. I even took a few long boosted mountain runs and water temps have not gotten higher than 87 C running 10-12 PSI boost and beating on it.
Another thing that I noticed is that underhood temps are way down. And as a result of that, cabin temps are way down too so I don't need to use the A/C as much.
Vmount is a great setup for delivering combined low coolant and air temps.