M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

I changed my oil & filter to Valvoline VR1 SAE 50 Racing Oil, one day prior to my three (3) day high-speed driving event in the "advanced" class, which equates to approx. 3-hours of flat-out driving and under 100-miles. The oil also looks very clean.

I live in north Florida, so the temps are above 70-F during this time of the year, and are easily between high-80's and mid-90's during the day.

Should I change out my oil & filter again, or would you keep running it for another 1500-miles ?

I heard that "Racing Oil" doesn't have the high-detergents of "normal" oil.

Valvoline VR1:
http://www.valvoline.com/products/VR...otor%20Oil.pdf
Single-weight is also "ashless".

BTW: is a high-quality diesel-rated oil like Delo 400 15-40 OK for use with the twin-turbo rotary ? I would think so, esp. since it can deal with more soot/acid/blow-by than passenger gasoline oil.

TIA,
:-) neil

PS: here's a link to my early apex, off-course adventure (no damage):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-slvUkwMxk

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

We have hot and humid summers here. With that, if it's going to be a while between track days (several months and I will be driving the car), I usually change out the oil for 10w30. If another track day(s) is somewhat near, I keep the heavy stuff in.

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

Since the track is closing down for repaving, I probably won't be hitting the track until October or November 2006.

So I guess, I'll change it out. I have a gallon of Delo 400 15w-40 diesel-rated oil just sitting around. Should be good, correct ?

:-) neil

LUPE

I use 20/50 year round.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

If that's your other option, I would keep the 50 in there. I've not heard good things about the additives in the 40's for rotaries. Generally, people say to stick with either 30 or 50.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i started the following thread a few weeks ago and felt it might be helpful to you re oil choices.... you may search the 3rd gen section for additional responses within the thread.

since my post i have done additional research and have elected to stay w Mobil One. i ran it for 6 full seasons of SCCA GT3 road racing and it served me very well. however Mobil One, like all non racing non diesel non farm equip oils, has a reduced anti wear component. i have chosen to go w GM cam and lifter prelube part # 12345501 $6 for 4 oz to return antiwear to my oil.

of course we don't have camshafts to wear out but we do have turbos and if they are journal bearing the longitudinal thrust bearings take a real beating, if they are ball bearing that's metal to metal, stationary gears are metal to metal, sideseal to cornerseal is metal to metal, various oilpump components and the chain.... etc.

just one additional word of advice. we all have people we listen to. last jan i had my engine out of my car and thought i'd take it apart and measure the clearances. i built it 10 months prior and had put 7800 miles on it. i was very interested to see how the various clearances had opened up. or not. literally everybody i talked to me said don't touch it, it runs great don't mess around. that didn't have any impact on me. until my friend Jose Le Duc said don't touch it. that was it. when Jose talks i listen.

Jose runs a methanol 2 rotor drag car that is turning into a monster. currently it is around 8 seconds but is in the process of getting trimmed out. big time.

in addition to going fast Jose's motors last. he had 34 trips down the 1/4 mile on one of his motors and it was still solid.

one of Jose's pieces of advice to me: run NOTHING but 5-30 weight oil. last year i ran 5-30 and my motor seemed quite happy. plenty of oil pressure running 850/1600 injectors at 85% duty cycle. good enough for me. i pass it on FWIW.

great to see you on the track,

howard coleman




you need to know about REFORMULATED OIL!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the June issue of Hot Rod magazine (p 125) contains an article entitled: "When Good Cams Go Bad." while the report discusses an alarming 3 year trend in camshaft/lifter failures the significance of the primary culprit probably should be considered by all rotary owners. Anti wear is at least as important if not more so for the rotary.

a major engine builder is quoted as seeing more camshaft/lifter failures in the last 3 years than the prior 30.

while a number of reasons are considered one of the key conclusions is the recently reformulated standards for motor oil.

unfortunately i wasn't able to copy the article but here's an executive summary:

approx 4 years ago the auto manufactures, oil companies and the government (always bad to get them together) met to discuss an issue the regulators had re the effects of the PRIMARY ANTI-WEAR ADDITIVES in oil and their effects on catalytic convertor life.

the additives are primarily zinc and phosphorus (referred to as ZDDP) they act as sacrificial items and take the mechanical wear in lieu of the engines components.

due to the fact that todays motors use roller rockers the industry didn't need as much wear protection as in the past and capitulated.

the article features a table showing % of the 2 elements going from .13% in 1996 to .087 in 05 (Zinc) and .12 (Phosphorus) to .08 in 05.

rotary engines NEED these additives. the law going forward removes more ZDDP until there is almost no remaining ZDDP.

Racing Oil does not fall under the restrictions.

Quaker State Q Racing, for example, contains .2 of Z and .18 of P. Over the road trucks are exempt until 07. you can buy Shell Rotella T at Walmart (Truck oil) and it contains .14 and .13. Pennzoil Racing oil is .196 and .18.

i have used Mobil One since 1983 and will be checking w them tuesday to find out what the specs are.

you can tell which oils have reduced wear additives.... a Gold Starburst label and designation ILSAC GF-4. it is safe to conclude all non racing ex-trucks oils now fall into the no no category.

rotary owner had best steer clear of street legal oils.

another option is to add GM Camshaft and Lifter Prelube PN12345501 4 ounces about $6 at the time of your oil change.

i pass this info on, knowing it's importance to the rotary community and of course looking for additional input.

there is perhaps no subject w more written about it than oil. i hope that there will be no posts on this thread about loving some type of oil. let's focus on ZDDP and add additional info here as rotaries need all the antiwear they can get .

going forward i will make my choice of oils based on ZDDP content.

howard coleman

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Interesting comment on the 5w30 oil Howard. 20w50 has been the concensus from all that I have talked to, and a few 'in the know' people have told me it's to protect your bearings. Hmm.

ROTARYFDTT

iTrader: (4)

I've been rockin VR1 for a few years now, I change the oil every 1500-2000. I'd probably change the oil but I think leaving it in would be ok.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil is great stuff. A good friend has used it for ~60k miles on his FD and when his motor was broken down to be ported the internals looked brand new. If I ever have to go away from full synth that will be what I choice for dyno juice

DamonB

I switched back to 5W-30 recently as well. I have seen zero pressure problems in any heat and fact is the bearing journals in our motors are very generous in size. Mainly I went back to 5W-30 because I could see no advantage in running 20W-50.

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

Howard, on another list (Mercedes) I've been espousing that the latest Mercedes oil standards have nothing to do with engine longevity/protection, but for LONG drain intervals, and the potential for less wear on the catalytic converter.

I, too, choose an engine oil with HIGH anti-wear additives (e.g., ZDDP; moly) and good detergents.

I specifically chose the Valvoline VR1 50wt. racing oil because of that (high ZDDP, and it was on sale).

Since I won't be doing another track-day until about October/November, I did change the oil & filter, and decided to use Schaeffers 7000 15w-40 synthetic-blend since I had a gallon jug of this also laying around. Schaeffers also has a straight 30wt and 5w-30, so I'll have to get some of this as well:

http://www.schaefferoil.com/supreme_7000.html

Seeing that my commute is less than 15-minutes, I doubt I'd get a 50wt. racing oil upto temperature any time soon, hence the reason I changed.

BTW: the Delo 400 15w-40 I have, also has MOLY in it as anti-wear additive. Not bad for under $9/gallon!

More reading here:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/oilshear.htm

:-) neil

Aeka GSR

iTrader: (4)

thinner oil is not any less lubricating than thicker. I would only run thicker in track days where the heat can break it down (and even this can be debated to no end).

Run the thinnest oil possible before you burn it or start to make noises. The thicker the oil you run will end up making your clearances wider due to oil starvation on startup, once your clearances are wide then you have to use thick oil.

This is all tricky **** when daily driven is mixed with race, since race clerances are usually set up a bit loose, you would then need to run thicker oil. It all depends on your current clearances and if you are going to be beating the **** out of it.

mdavis

I checked Mobil 1's site, and they don't give specific Zinc/Phosphorus specifications for their "normal" 5w30, but it does clearly state "ILSAC GF-4 (API Certified - Starburst)"

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

I wouldn't use Mobil 1 5w-30 if it has the "StarBurst".

I believe Mobil 1 15w-50 still has some ZDDP, but you should check the virgin oil-analysis here:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...ubb=forum;f=11

:-) neil

Larz

so is their anyway of finding out the zinc content without a lab? I'd like to know what has what.