suganuma

I started intalling my bushings a couple weekends ago. I'm going at it slowly as I have time around other commitments and also b/c I keep running into problems. I am using a sort of home-made air gun press using bolts, metal tubes, scrap flat steel, and sockets. I highly recommend to anyone that does this to go buy Grade 8 bolts and nuts as even those have broken trying to get a few of them out and the lower grade bolts are breaking left and right.

The problem I am having which grants a post is that the metal pins that are supposed to slide freely within the bushing do so before the bushing is intalled, but will not go in all the way (in some cases not at all) after the bushing has been pressed into the arm. I figure this is due to the bushing being a little bit larger on the outer diameter than it is supposed to be. I mean, I don't think it is supposed to be this hard of a press fit just from seeing some of the bushings come out (some are a real b*tch though). I am just wondering if anyone else has had this problem.

The only solution I see right now is trying to sand out the inside until the pin slides freely. I am just worried about maintaining a good centerline on the bushing on the ones that don't go in at all now. Outside of a machine shop, I don't know where to get a set of precision tool bits in that size either....and I need them QUICK. If I had a slightly larger tool bit than the size of the pin and a large assortment of choices in size, I would have already fixed it that way. I just figured that these would be a straight-forward job. I assumed that most people would not want to go through all this effort just to get the pins to fit right. It is definitely doubling my installation time just trying to figure out how I'm going to do this accurately without those bits.

IRPerformance

iTrader: (41)

hahaha its a secret!

suganuma

so was releasing the throwout bearing before I showed you how...

tell the forumites

DamonB

Don't even attempt to get the rear bushings out of the front lower control arms yourself. Those things have thick aluminum sleeves and are IN there.

suganuma

already done

those and the diff were the biggest PITA though.

suganuma

alright so i'm stuck with either trying to sand them out and risking making the hole too big so that the suspension clunks or just hammering them in and risking that it will squeak like all hell no matter if these zerk fittings are put in or not....

and all Ihor has is some ridiculous "secret"

DamonB

PM jimlab

maxcooper

Don't hammer them in.

Be very sure that you are using the right pins in the right holes. Jim's instructions have some warnings and helpful information about matching them up correctly. If they don't go in easily, something is wrong. They should slide right in with little or no resistance.

If you have distorted the nylon part of the bushing to the point that the pins don't fit, you might be out of luck. I think it would be hard to re-cut the holes in a manner that would distribute the load well and not have too much slop.

-Max

suganuma

Max - when putting them in I tested each bushing and pin before and after installation. So far 2/13 pins slide freely, 2 won't go in at all, and the rest will go halfway and can be hammered through. I used the same method to put them all in - not sure why i'm getting mixed results.

Your last point is my biggest source of concern.

DamonB

Did any of your removal/installation involve very heavy hammers or pounding? That will distort the bores of the parts and give you heap of troubles. If the pins slid into the bushings before you installed them you've distorted the bores of the suspension.

The reason I warned about the rear lowers on the front is I had a (highly recommended) shop HAMMER mine out because the press wouldn't budge them.

Upon inspecting my gorgeous cast aluminum a-arms and brand new bushings I noticed the bushings were not indexed correctly, the inner races were bent, and the arms themselves had been neatly peened shut over the tops of the bushings from every time the hammer missed. I pointed out that since the arms were so distorted they could never get a new bushing in there without screwing it up (even if they were to machine the aluminum off so they could even ATTEMPT to press them back out).

Long story short the shop was forced to purchase me a pair of brand new aluminum a-arms from Mazda with the bushings already installed. They ate about $800 on that one.

suganuma

To get a few of the bushings out I used a hammer. On some of them, they would simply not come out unless I tightened the assembly down as tight as possible (where the bolt was about to torque itself apart, strip the nut, or shear and then i used a hammer to bang it out. You can ask Mike Roberts (Scalliwag) about this process we had to use to get a few of them out at his place.

Getting the bushings IN I did not do any banging and that's where I broke many bolts....almost as many as it took to get the bushings out.

I just finished getting all the new ones in. I used the same method on all of them. The upper front A-arm was the easiest to get them in and out of and is also the 2 pieces where the pins slide freely in and out. So 4/16 (i have heim jointed trailing arms) actually went in without any trouble.

I sent a message to Jimlab both through PM and email.

I guess I'll just go play with some other things until I hear something from him....

I need to get the car running to tweak a few other things so I'm not concerned right now about how this happened, but moreso about what I should do now.

1. try to sand out the areas that seem a little higher (this seems to repeatedly be in the center of the bushing) and make the pins fit just to the point that they slide freely and hope that there aren't any unusually high spots.


2. some of the bushings will go in with varying force from a push from my finger, a tap from a ball peen hammer, to not going in at all right now (diff). Max advises not to force the bushings in as does Jimlab in his instructions from the website. The only reason I keep this as an option is my thinking, concern , and reason for doing the damn things in the first place is to avoid having extra slop and if the bushings deformed from the force of installation, wouldn't it be possible that they would form back to their original shape after seeing the loads the suspension sees in day to day driving??? I mean, even in a 3000lb vehicle, those are large loads....and far more than what was seen during their installation.

HELP

Trout2

iTrader: (5)

Myself and one other I know of had this problem. I've only installed the rear and diff. bushings so far. The hole for the pin closes up once pressed in. No hammers or other backyard techniques, the bushings were removed and installed by a professional using a press. The center pin holes were gradually enlarged so the pins rotated freely.

I knew there was a problem a soon as the pins didn't slide in freely as the directions described. I figured this must be why some people had squeaky bushings.

Jack

7racer

crap! i just ordered a set....

letmen know what you find out.

suganuma

have any problems with clunking or anything else?

I got an email back from Jim. He says not to worry about the diff bushings and just do some trial and error on the others. Here's the good word as sent to me.

"Nic, no problem with the differential bushings. The differential doesn't move once it is bolted in place, so the pins don't have to rotate. You can tap them into place with a hammer and bolt them in as-is.

The problem is production tolerances in Mazda's components. One size fits most, but sometimes you'll end up with less clearance than required or a pin that just won't fit. Try swapping same size pins from one bushing to another. The front upper control arms have four pins, for example, so you can try swapping pins from one bushing to another, or swapping them end for end in the same bushing.

The Nylon will "break in" to some extent once on the car and in use, so the tolerances will open up a little, but you shouldn't have to tap in any pins with the exception of the differential bushings."

My diff pins won't even go into the bushings except for the tip.
front upper control arms - all pins move freely
front lower - will move in 1/2 way then get stuck just using my hand.
rear upper - rear moves all the way in with some resistance, front goes 1/2 way, shock mount goes 1/2 way.

I still need to play with swapping them around a little bit more. I haven't had any luck so far.

7racer

can you put the "smurf poo" lube on the pins to help them in?

suganuma

they will go in

the problem is is that they are supposed to rotate freely and some don't do that

hardbodeez

iTrader: (4)

So are these bushings gonna need to be replaced in another 10 years again??

Trout2

iTrader: (5)

I getting squeaking noise but no clunking. I can't say for sure if its the bushings, they were quiet for about 2 weeks then I started hearing noises but I have noticed some oil coming out the top on one of my rear Advanced Design shocks. Won't know for sure until I dig into that project.

I hear no noise rocking the car but it sounds like a loose upper shock mount although everything is tight at the mount.

Jack

jimlab

That part concerns me. They are supposed to be a press fit and not move when installed, but since the Nylon is basically self-lubricating, it takes almost no force at all (when compared to the force required to remove the stock bushings) to seat the new ones when done properly.

It's a shame that you didn't use or have access to a press. It sounds like you may have distorted the bushings and/or suspension components at some point during the process. The fact that you're having problems with several bushings supports this.

poss

iTrader: (5)

I had the exact same problem (although, they weren't jimlab's bushings, they were of similar design made by your's truely) I ended up sanding some of the nylon, like you suggested. Just be VERY carelful not to sand too much off....don't want to ruin your new set of bushings!!

Also, mine slid in better without any grease or lubrication applied. Slide them in dry and then lube them with the grease zerks that are reccomended.

wonder1and

Nic... call me tomorrow afternoon and I'll let you in on the secret...
Ryker

xchaos

Come on guys, if there truely is a secret let the community know.

I will be doing this shortly as well and it would sure be nice to have all the info. I will be using a press though.

suganuma

I tried using a press to start with, but couldn't get the components positioned in there in a way that I felt comfortable. i.e. I couldn't get directly on top of the bushing with the press and with what I had to work with, I couldn't get any sort of "system" arranged in a way that seemed safe to start pressing.

Many of the bushings were very hard to install and this was also a source of concern for me. Some would go in most of the way fine and then that last 1/2" they just didn't want to budge. A couple were a PITA the whole way through though.

Like I said, the front upper control arm went very smooth in and out and those are the ones where the pin fits great.

As far as this "secret"...I'm 90% sure it's nothing myself or someone else here hasn't already thought of as a solution. I'll call you later on today Ryker.

-Nic

xchaos

Yea, thats probably true. Even the little things missed can save someone alot of money. IMO, might as well share.

jimlab

There should have been very little resistance as they were inserted. I've never talked to anyone who had trouble getting the Nylon bushings seated... only to a couple people who decided they should apply a few more thousand pounds of pressure after the bushings were fully seated...

Seriously, they literally should have slid into place like butter, with an appropriate amount of pressure applied. With my 20-ton press, there was almost no resistance whatsoever on all the Nylon bushings I've installed in my own and other's suspension pieces. The main concern has always been keeping a close eye on the flange and slowing down as the bushing approached the point of being fully seated.

I believe the secret is lube-related, not necessarily pertaining to your current problem.