"It's Back" 2016 RX7
#51
Just take the blue pill..
#52
Rotary Freak
It looks like a Jaguar F-Type to me.
#53
Constant threat
yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn.
It
Will
Never
Happen
And, who wants a non-halo car, anyway? Let's face it, PERFORMANCE sells. NO ONE wants to buy a new 'sports/sporty' car that gets trounced by Edna's Ford Escape. Who'd buy a car that you had to slink away from every Camaro or Mustang...the V6 MODELS, lol!
It amazes me that these threads continue to actually build some sort of feeble hope with the masses.
It
Will
Never
Happen
And, who wants a non-halo car, anyway? Let's face it, PERFORMANCE sells. NO ONE wants to buy a new 'sports/sporty' car that gets trounced by Edna's Ford Escape. Who'd buy a car that you had to slink away from every Camaro or Mustang...the V6 MODELS, lol!
It amazes me that these threads continue to actually build some sort of feeble hope with the masses.
#54
Weak, if mazda even produces anything, it should at least be able to keep up with the bigger dogs. Make it blow the doors off an SS camaro or something haha. But really 250hp is not up to peoples standards for a performance car today. Mustang gt's pushing 420, taurus sho pushing over 380 with awd, shelby's pushing 650, etc. a 250hp car is noooot going to impress anyone besides soccer moms. I dont care about my mpg if its worth driving. If i did i wouldnt own an FD, or rx7 at all for that matter. Not saying mazda needs to build a supercar or anything here, just that they should make it worth it. 3 rotor with some ***** in a nice lightweight platform
#56
If I were Mazda exec, and I looked at rx8 sales and compared them with FD sales, in what way would I consider the 8 to be a failure? Throw into the mix glowing reviews from top gear and other journalists...
#60
All out Track Freak!
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I don't consider the late model supra, 300zx or rx7 failures because of sales #s and any exec who's primary concern for building there top tier sports car is sales #s, well with all do respect that's a dude that shouldn't be managing the company. The mission statement for the RX7 should be to build the best possible sports car for the best possible price that's able to compete at an elite level in motorsports and they should race the car and improve it yearly. If the mission statement is to produce an affordable sports car that's fun to drive that everyone will want to own well you have that car and it's called the miata but just like the RX8 you've let it rest on it laurels for far too long.
Bottomline: from what I can tell the mazda exec is doing a good job with his sedans and ecos but I'd advise pulling his head out of his *** when it comes to sports cars because they shouldn't be developed and sold with the same mind set and if his stable of sports cars are really cool he'll sell a hell of lot more sedans.........so stop focusing on sales #s when it comes to your sports cars and have some effing fun.......JACK ***!!!!! You'll make us proud, you'll make your company proud and you may even win some races and make your homeland proud.
#61
The only thing the RX-8 has going for it is it handles well and looks modern. But otherwise its a rusting Ford with an uneconomical engine that has issues and they're being scraped left and right. Who would want a car with no positives? People only bought the RX-8 because it seemed cool at the time and then sales fell like a rock through the years when people realized the car wasn't what it was hyped to be.
thewird
#64
Full Member
My hope is that, if this value of 600cc per rotor has some truth to it, it was chosen due to the flexibility of being able to make both a 2 and a 3 rotor with sensible power output.
My guess is that, while a 2 rotor 16x at 300hp would be a good compromise between performance and sales, a 3 rotor version of that engine would turn out to be too powerful (selling only a handful of units worldwide).
Same thing with a turbo 16x, with all of the additional reliability problems and development costs.
Anyway I agree that having only the 250hp engine would be a mistake.
Andrea.
My guess is that, while a 2 rotor 16x at 300hp would be a good compromise between performance and sales, a 3 rotor version of that engine would turn out to be too powerful (selling only a handful of units worldwide).
Same thing with a turbo 16x, with all of the additional reliability problems and development costs.
Anyway I agree that having only the 250hp engine would be a mistake.
Andrea.
#65
Horses for courses I guess. They are quite popular in Australia on the 2nd hand market, particularly for cashed up new drivers. Licencing laws make it one of the best cars available to new drivers which certainly helps.
I'm not convinced on anything regarding displacement. 1.2 is far more believable than 1.6 though.
I'm not convinced on anything regarding displacement. 1.2 is far more believable than 1.6 though.
#66
Horses for courses I guess. They are quite popular in Australia on the 2nd hand market, particularly for cashed up new drivers. Licencing laws make it one of the best cars available to new drivers which certainly helps.
I'm not convinced on anything regarding displacement. 1.2 is far more believable than 1.6 though.
I'm not convinced on anything regarding displacement. 1.2 is far more believable than 1.6 though.
thewird
#67
Full Member
Actually the 1.6 is a lot more believable since Mazda already went through the trouble of designing a 1.6 specifically for a new rotary platform. Are you forgetting the 1.6X. The new 1.2 value has come from Autoweek which could be speculation or could be someone heard something from an exec. It's entirely likely when that the 1.6 didn't live up to the goals they were hoping for with their design changes. They're goals for that design was 50% more torque and 50% improvement in fuel economy. So they probably failed to hit those targets and decided to go back to the 1.2 instead.
thewird
thewird
Thus the switch to the smaller rotors to allow for a 1.2 2 rotor and a 1.8 3 rotor, possibly replacing the 4 and 6 port versions of the 16x respectively.
As an added bonus, the smaller motor would be much more rev happy (we got words that the 16x was still a 9000rpm engine, so a smaller engine would have no trouble reaching 10000rpm, and maybe even more), and so it would also have an even higher specific power output. 250hp from a 1.2 is more than 200hp per liter, while 300hp from a 1.6 is less than that.
Just speculation, I know.
Andrea.
#68
Guys I know we would all like to see a high HP FD successor, but I’m somehow pessimistic that Mazda can pull it off, not because of their ability, but because of the high emission standards and norms. I don’t know about the US but here in Europe the emissions norms are getting stricter every 4/5 years. In this year Europe is introducing the Euro 6 Norm.
Can Mazda make a 300+ HP rotary and pass the Euro 6 norm? If not right there they are losing a market of a half billion people.
And you can expect that by 2018 Europe will introduce the Euro 7 Norm…so if Mazda would want to sell a high power 300+HP rotary in 2017 in Europe they would have to not only satisfy Euro 6 but also the upcoming Euro 7…meh
Can Mazda make a 300+ HP rotary and pass the Euro 6 norm? If not right there they are losing a market of a half billion people.
And you can expect that by 2018 Europe will introduce the Euro 7 Norm…so if Mazda would want to sell a high power 300+HP rotary in 2017 in Europe they would have to not only satisfy Euro 6 but also the upcoming Euro 7…meh
#69
Actually the 1.6 is a lot more believable since Mazda already went through the trouble of designing a 1.6 specifically for a new rotary platform. Are you forgetting the 1.6X. The new 1.2 value has come from Autoweek which could be speculation or could be someone heard something from an exec. It's entirely likely when that the 1.6 didn't live up to the goals they were hoping for with their design changes. They're goals for that design was 50% more torque and 50% improvement in fuel economy. So they probably failed to hit those targets and decided to go back to the 1.2 instead.
thewird
thewird
#70
Senior Member
I love the FD. IMO, the worst move they made with it (aside from fragile interiors and inadequate cooling and reliability issues) was to not have a lower-priced ~200hp NA version. Even if they'd built that car and no 255hp turbo version, I still would have preferred it over the Z32, Supra, Corvette, etc. as my favorite 90s sports car.
A new 250hp 2800 lb (hopefully less) reasonably-priced 50/50 (or better) fixed-roof rwd sports car would be brilliant, and I'd probably buy one.
IMO, the market needs another SA RX-7 more than it needs a modern FD.
Of course I'm all for a 350/400hp multirotor or turbo version as well!
A new 250hp 2800 lb (hopefully less) reasonably-priced 50/50 (or better) fixed-roof rwd sports car would be brilliant, and I'd probably buy one.
IMO, the market needs another SA RX-7 more than it needs a modern FD.
Of course I'm all for a 350/400hp multirotor or turbo version as well!
#71
SEMI-PRO
iTrader: (2)
I think we have seen the Rotary come to the end of its time
It was an interesting alternative engine design that had its place in history.
Possibly the same as the Steam engine but not nearly as popular or proven. Even that engine design gave way to progress.
Even if it can hold on another model or two I think it is destined to decline further into obscurity and surcumb to emissions and political mandates.
Even if you get another motor it looks to be marginalized and weak substitute for what it's enthusiasts really want.
It was an interesting alternative engine design that had its place in history.
Possibly the same as the Steam engine but not nearly as popular or proven. Even that engine design gave way to progress.
Even if it can hold on another model or two I think it is destined to decline further into obscurity and surcumb to emissions and political mandates.
Even if you get another motor it looks to be marginalized and weak substitute for what it's enthusiasts really want.
#72
Rotary Freak
I hope Mazda will consider an aluminum turbo V4, then.
Porsche is using a V4 turbo hybrid in their 919 LMP1 car this year:
Porsche 919 Hybrid LeMans Racer to Feature 4 Cylinder Turbo, Batteries | The Truth About Cars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_919_hybrid
http://www.carthrottle.com/obsolete-...e-mythical-v4/
Porsche is using a V4 turbo hybrid in their 919 LMP1 car this year:
Porsche 919 Hybrid LeMans Racer to Feature 4 Cylinder Turbo, Batteries | The Truth About Cars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_919_hybrid
http://www.carthrottle.com/obsolete-...e-mythical-v4/
Last edited by HiWire; 02-17-14 at 12:59 PM.
#74
Rotary Freak
iTrader: (5)
rotary is very fuel inefficient because of loss of compression , the engine just does not SEAL as well as a piston engine . thats why Turbo's are not nearly as efficient in rotary's as in piston engines ... if said problem were resolved alot of the rotaries issues would go with it . emissions wise atleast. Then the problem remains being reliable
but if said issue was resolved it would mean much higher HP numbers as well ... and maybe its not a solution which can just be resolved from one day to another maybe it will take generations of the motors to try and refine .
lets look at piston engines in comparison . 20 years ago a V6 and V8s were gas guzzlers but through continuous research they have become what they are today . It didnt happen over night , there was a problem and it took multiple companies R&D to solve. The issue with tons and tons and TONS of backstabbing and Espionage crap. What you think its a coincidence that Direct fuel injection is all the rage now N days you think every car company just Up and came to the same conclusion ???.. No LOL . But the issue is with the rotary its not so easy as only one company is working on it vs 20 all around the globe .
So the rotary is Falling behind , because mazda cant steal other companies ideas ... basically ..
but if said issue was resolved it would mean much higher HP numbers as well ... and maybe its not a solution which can just be resolved from one day to another maybe it will take generations of the motors to try and refine .
lets look at piston engines in comparison . 20 years ago a V6 and V8s were gas guzzlers but through continuous research they have become what they are today . It didnt happen over night , there was a problem and it took multiple companies R&D to solve. The issue with tons and tons and TONS of backstabbing and Espionage crap. What you think its a coincidence that Direct fuel injection is all the rage now N days you think every car company just Up and came to the same conclusion ???.. No LOL . But the issue is with the rotary its not so easy as only one company is working on it vs 20 all around the globe .
So the rotary is Falling behind , because mazda cant steal other companies ideas ... basically ..
Last edited by Tem120; 02-17-14 at 02:53 PM.
#75
Senior Member
VX-7! That would be cool.... See my post #932 here:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...016439/page38/
V4 could give a low hoodline and short wheelbase like the rotary, allow double-wishbone suspension (unlike the FR-S/BRZ flat-4), and would be somewhat novel in the automotive world. If they can't make the rotary meet emissions and/or fuel economy requirements (gov't and consumer demand), then I think that V4 would be a very interesting way to go for them...
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...016439/page38/
V4 could give a low hoodline and short wheelbase like the rotary, allow double-wishbone suspension (unlike the FR-S/BRZ flat-4), and would be somewhat novel in the automotive world. If they can't make the rotary meet emissions and/or fuel economy requirements (gov't and consumer demand), then I think that V4 would be a very interesting way to go for them...