"It's Back" 2016 RX7
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: West Coast
Originally Posted by the internets
The Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona is the first race of the new TUDOR United SportsCar Championship, and the series has opened the door for a variety of alternative fuels and ideas in the Prototype class. One of the most written-about green race cars on the 24 Hours of Daytona entry list is the 2014 Mazda Prototype race car, operated by Speedsource and driven by the same four drivers who gave Mazda nine wins in the short-lived Grand Am GX class.
The Mazda Prototype racer will compete in the LMP2 class, and will utilize a production-based 2.2 liter turbodiesel engine making some 450 horsepower and 580 ft-lbs of torque. It’s worth noting that Mazda is the only diesel competitor thus far, despite the inherent advantages that come with the torque-heavy, fuel-efficient motors. With a 186 MPH top speed and an unwavering commitment to motorsports, I have high expectations for Mazda’s diesel race car this weekend, and all season in general.
The Mazda Prototype racer will compete in the LMP2 class, and will utilize a production-based 2.2 liter turbodiesel engine making some 450 horsepower and 580 ft-lbs of torque. It’s worth noting that Mazda is the only diesel competitor thus far, despite the inherent advantages that come with the torque-heavy, fuel-efficient motors. With a 186 MPH top speed and an unwavering commitment to motorsports, I have high expectations for Mazda’s diesel race car this weekend, and all season in general.
Mazda could make a flex fuel rotary and market it as a green alternative 
more aggressive tuning for better performance running on ethanol but with flex capability for gasoline ethanol blends in any ratio.
don't rotaries run on anything? they could market it as multi fuel, gas/diesel/ethanol... NG? Propane?
more aggressive tuning for better performance running on ethanol but with flex capability for gasoline ethanol blends in any ratio.
don't rotaries run on anything? they could market it as multi fuel, gas/diesel/ethanol... NG? Propane?
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 682
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From: Pawtucket, RI
Before anybody goes on about how diesels won LeMans, you have to take into account that the rules were structured to ensure that they would.
Diesel = the ANTI-rotary!
Rotary Freak
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 250
From: Toronto
Yes, your post got me thinking. Obviously, Porsche thinks there is potential with the V4, too. The Subaru boxer-4 design might achieve similar design objectives, but a modern turbo V4 might make an even smaller, lighter package.
Mazda has been experimenting with the hydrogen rotary for a few years. I hope they are making good progress.
Mazda RX-8 Hydrogen RE - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hynor
I'm tired of the negativity and squabbling in the other thread... funny/sad because we mostly want the same thing in the end
Mazda RX-8 Hydrogen RE - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hynor
I'm tired of the negativity and squabbling in the other thread... funny/sad because we mostly want the same thing in the end
Last edited by HiWire; Feb 17, 2014 at 05:40 PM.
TT LS1 in the works
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: MN
I try to keep an open mind, but honestly diesels do not appeal to me. For a given power level, they will be heavier and more expensive and much lower-revving than a gasoline engine. They will get much better fuel mileage, though... But for a lightweight minimalist sports car, gasoline engines are a better overall solution IMO.
Before anybody goes on about how diesels won LeMans, you have to take into account that the rules were structured to ensure that they would.
Diesel = the ANTI-rotary!
Before anybody goes on about how diesels won LeMans, you have to take into account that the rules were structured to ensure that they would.
Diesel = the ANTI-rotary!
Actually the diesel should be about the same weight as a rotary (maybe less) All aluminum, plastic valve cover and intake manifold, racing version goes one step further with a compacted graphite block, Id take the compound turbo 450hp,580ft/lbs 5200rpm Diesel over a rotary that that spins to 9000rpm makes 250hp an pathetic torque.
hydrogen/propane/cng needs additional/different fuel tanks which add weight complexity and reduce interior space.
flex gasoline to e100 with appropriate tuning makes more sense with "green rotary" marketing
flex gasoline to e100 with appropriate tuning makes more sense with "green rotary" marketing
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 682
Likes: 4
From: Pawtucket, RI
Actually the diesel should be about the same weight as a rotary (maybe less) All aluminum, plastic valve cover and intake manifold, racing version goes one step further with a compacted graphite block, Id take the compound turbo 450hp,580ft/lbs 5200rpm Diesel over a rotary that that spins to 9000rpm makes 250hp an pathetic torque.
But still, at the 250 or at the 450hp level, I'd rather have a 9000+rpm rotary than a 5000rpm diesel in my sports car. For an over-the-road truck, diesel all the way!
Last edited by ZDan; Feb 18, 2014 at 09:30 AM.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Same tech vs. same tech (if the diesel gets to use lightweight materials, so does the rotary), same power vs. same power, the rotary will almost certainly be lighter-weight and less expensive. Of course it will also consume a LOT more fuel and have a much shorter lifespan!
But still, at the 250 or at the 450hp level, I'd rather have a 9000+rpm rotary than a 5000rpm diesel in my sports car. For an over-the-road truck, diesel all the way!
But still, at the 250 or at the 450hp level, I'd rather have a 9000+rpm rotary than a 5000rpm diesel in my sports car. For an over-the-road truck, diesel all the way!
The lotus isn't that car. In my opinion the Elise and Exige are way over priced. I'd rather build a kit car or buy something else.
If more and more companies continue to focus on weight and removing the BS and replacing it with track BS it could happen sooner rather than later
I wouldn't be surprised if Ford has another badass track only mustang in a couple of years.
As said before it's a wonderful time to be a car guy
Kia may design this one: Detroit Auto Show 2014: Is Kia Entering The Sports Car Market With The GT4 Stinger?
Rotary Freak
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 250
From: Toronto
I saw the new Mustang prototype at the car show... the 2015 Mustang is certainly a candidate, with its independent rear suspension and 3 engine choices. After it's stripped for the track, it should be competitive.
I hope the next version of the Camaro sheds some weight and bulk.
I hope the next version of the Camaro sheds some weight and bulk.
Last edited by HiWire; Feb 18, 2014 at 11:18 AM.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 31,796
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From: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
no need to build a racecar, ford sells a Grand Am legal car (full cage, special engine, suspension, and fuel tanks), its on page 2 of the motor sports catalog.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Dodge also does this with the viper and of course Porsche, fingers crossed on chevy jumping aboard with the c7
I might buy a new FD chassis to throw my swap into over the 20 year old cars we are left with.
If Mazda won't build a better Sports car at least let me.
Read this:
I Just Don't Even Believe Reports About A New Mazda RX-7 Anymore
On top of this the automotive industry has gone in different direction. I think Mazda can build another RX7; it's as easy as putting a gutless but environmentally friendly rotary engine in and sticking an RX7 emblem on one of their upcoming coupes. However making it as legendary and as competitive as the old ones is almost impossible in today's standards and in Mazda's current financial situation. Maybe if they decided to take on the Lexus approach (read: LF-A) and make no money on each car they sold...
I Just Don't Even Believe Reports About A New Mazda RX-7 Anymore
On top of this the automotive industry has gone in different direction. I think Mazda can build another RX7; it's as easy as putting a gutless but environmentally friendly rotary engine in and sticking an RX7 emblem on one of their upcoming coupes. However making it as legendary and as competitive as the old ones is almost impossible in today's standards and in Mazda's current financial situation. Maybe if they decided to take on the Lexus approach (read: LF-A) and make no money on each car they sold...
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Read this:
I Just Don't Even Believe Reports About A New Mazda RX-7 Anymore
On top of this the automotive industry has gone in different direction. I think Mazda can build another RX7; it's as easy as putting a gutless but environmentally friendly rotary engine in and sticking an RX7 emblem on one of their upcoming coupes. However making it as legendary and as competitive as the old ones is almost impossible in today's standards and in Mazda's current financial situation. Maybe if they decided to take on the Lexus approach (read: LF-A) and make no money on each car they sold...
I Just Don't Even Believe Reports About A New Mazda RX-7 Anymore
On top of this the automotive industry has gone in different direction. I think Mazda can build another RX7; it's as easy as putting a gutless but environmentally friendly rotary engine in and sticking an RX7 emblem on one of their upcoming coupes. However making it as legendary and as competitive as the old ones is almost impossible in today's standards and in Mazda's current financial situation. Maybe if they decided to take on the Lexus approach (read: LF-A) and make no money on each car they sold...
Rotary Freak
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 250
From: Toronto
I have no problem with the rumor mill. If Mazda executives want to publicly speculate about their ongoing rotary R&D project, that is fine. I don't really care when Mazda releases their next RX-7, if ever, but if they do, it better be good. Driving enthusiasts aren't going to be suckered into buying another RX-8 again.
The power guys are right – you can't fool yourself into thinking you've got a performance car when minivans and mid-range sedans are beating you off the line every time.
The power guys are right – you can't fool yourself into thinking you've got a performance car when minivans and mid-range sedans are beating you off the line every time.
I have no problem with the rumor mill. If Mazda executives want to publicly speculate about their ongoing rotary R&D project, that is fine. I don't really care when Mazda releases their next RX-7, if ever, but if they do, it better be good. Driving enthusiasts aren't going to be suckered into buying another RX-8 again.
The power guys are right – you can't fool yourself into thinking you've got a performance car when minivans and mid-range sedans are beating you off the line every time.
The power guys are right – you can't fool yourself into thinking you've got a performance car when minivans and mid-range sedans are beating you off the line every time.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 682
Likes: 4
From: Pawtucket, RI
250hp and 2600 lb. => 105mph in the quarter. Not exactly minivan territory...
I'm all for a 350-450hp variant, but IMO there should be a reasonably-priced base version.
If acceleration performance from a stoplight is critically important, there are plenty of cars on the market that do that well. What the market lacks is small, simple, reasonably-priced, reasonably-lightweight sports cars.
The best sports cars to me have never been about 0-60, 1/4-mile, or stoplight drags. Do you think the typical 1st/2nd-gen NA RX-7 owner gave a rat's **** that a contemporary Corvette would kill it in a straight line?
Keep it small, keep it simple, keep it light. Then add turbo(s) and/or rotor(s)...
I'm all for a 350-450hp variant, but IMO there should be a reasonably-priced base version.
If acceleration performance from a stoplight is critically important, there are plenty of cars on the market that do that well. What the market lacks is small, simple, reasonably-priced, reasonably-lightweight sports cars.
The best sports cars to me have never been about 0-60, 1/4-mile, or stoplight drags. Do you think the typical 1st/2nd-gen NA RX-7 owner gave a rat's **** that a contemporary Corvette would kill it in a straight line?
Keep it small, keep it simple, keep it light. Then add turbo(s) and/or rotor(s)...
The R3 got renewed praise and was named one of the best handling cars under $100k by C&D beating some serious cars.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...rx-8-r3-page-6
I've driven it several times and I love it, the only reason I don't own one is for the same reason I drive a 250k miles 2000 protege... can't afford it yet. I will get one eventually, even if there's a new 7 out there. Hopefully by then I can afford both.
Rotary Freak
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 250
From: Toronto
I actually like the RX-8. But it's a camel car – if they had made it as a 2-door, 2-seater, with the attendant rigidity and weight reduction advantages, it would have made a better sports car with more attractive proportions and better performance.
Faced with a choice between an FD or an RX-8, I didn't hesitate for a moment to buy my FD.
The RX-8 is not 2,600 lbs.
Faced with a choice between an FD or an RX-8, I didn't hesitate for a moment to buy my FD.
The RX-8 is not 2,600 lbs.
I'm not dissing anyone's desires, but you are not going to get 350 hp to the asphalt in a 2700-2800 pound car. And a manufacturer would be insane to put that in the hands of the average motorist. I think 300 hp in a 2700 pound car is the outside with some form of launch control, and Mazda could build that if the economics ever made sense.