jimlab

Cut your head off and put it in your lap...

Seriously, how much effect do you think moving the alternator has on the overall center of gravity of the car? I'm sure it has some impact, but I wouldn't do it just for that reason.

I'd weigh them both before claiming a weight loss benefit. The stock water pump isn't exceptionally heavy and a reasonable sized electric motor usually is.

More importantly, what's the effect on the rate of coolant flow? An electric pump typically outflows a mechanical belt-driven pump at low rpm, but at higher rpm, you can't get any more flow out of it than it's already delivering.

And replacing it with more electrical load. You still have to power the pump and if your alternator is already borderline because you've added other electronic devices, you may not be gaining as much as you think you are, especially if you have to go with a higher output alternator.

That is one benefit. On the other hand, the electric water pump may stop functioning and the first indication you'll have of it is when your temperature gauge immediately heads north.

This is one reason why I'm not planning on using an electric water pump any longer. They're great for trailered race cars, lousy for the street. Make up the ~5-10 horsepower you'd gain some other way.

Mr. Stock

It may work to decrease the center of gravity in your case...since your ego is huge.
But for me it would not make such a big difference. I would still contemplate it if it were possible.

I agree with your assessment. The effect may be minimal. But similar to yourself, I tend to be ****, at least about certain things involving my car. And I am **** about lowering the center of gravity of the engine/car.

Blake

Hey guys. I was told you might be interested in an FD version of our alternator relocation brackets. I'm willing to try it if you're willing to buy it.

Someone asked about mounting it lower? Don't know what pictures you're looking at, but any lower and it would be under the car!

Reliability with the electric water pumps is, if anything, as good as mechanicals. The Davies Craig EWP has won the Le Mans 24 Hour race (GTS class, in a Ferarri 550) which speaks volumes for its reliability, not to mention a favorable trade-off between mechanical and electric load. Another thing I think is easily forgotten is that water pumping speed is NOT ideally matched to engine speed...at high RPMs you don't want that mechanical pump spinning so fast (cavitation) and once the radiator is maxed-out, faster coolant flow is detrimental to cooling. What you want is the *right* speed of coolant flow, which is independant of engine speed. I'm not saying EWPs are necessary nor are they the best thing for all people and applications, but in the world of car mods, it's not remotely in the realm of stupid things people do in the sake of performance. Race cars see real benefits, at any rate, so those people who like to make their street cars into race-like vehicles can't be faulted for wanting to emulate a sucessful setup. Just my $0.02.

I won't take deposits yet, but I will start some pre-production work, such as making a CAD file and getting some blanks laser-cut for test fitment. If you are happy with mild steel and powdercoating (or nothing), then the price will be similar to the other brackets ($50-85). If you want Cadmium coating or something else, it may go up. Same if you want 4130 Chromoly or Titanium or Inconel or... One thing is certain, however. They must all be the same because the quantity is so low. Perhaps unfinished is best, so you can all do your own thing? Let me know what your thoughts are and try to reach a consensus.

--
Blake Qualley
Pineapple Racing

G's 3rd Gen

iTrader: (11)

Im interested if it can work w/ 200 amp alt..

Kento

Well, I'd have to disagree, because in some cases, there's a difference between good performance under typical street situations and good performance under race conditions with regards to certain components.

I have no qualms regarding the reliability aspect. However, the "favorable trade-off between mechanical and electrical load" is using the context of a 600-hp racing machine that is usually at full throttle most of the time (and doesn't have much of the additional electrical loads of a street car) versus a 300-350hp street car that is seldom at full throttle for long periods. There's a big difference there.
But you also want the right coolant flow for the speeds that you're usually traveling at. The same detrimental effects of coolant circulating before it can shed enough heat can be said for traveling at slower speeds as well, which is why most street cars are designed with engine-driven water pumps.
I agree, probably not, but for street cars driven on the street, I don't see a whole lot of payoff for the additional complexity and labor to install one.

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

I love the idea in principle of relocating the Alt but IMO it's a heck of a lot of effort AND expense (bracket, epump, block outlet, hoses, fittings, wiring, alternator(?), etc.) for not a whole lot of gain, and added potential for failure (The OEM mechanical pump is dead reliable and rarely prone to catastrophic failure, ie. it doesn't just STOPS working). Not that my opinion counts for much these days anyway.
Pure race car/track car maybe but for a street driver, nah.
Crispy

jimlab

Not to pick a fight (honestly), but 24 hours of operation during a race isn't comparable to what an electric pump would go through in a street car. The Meziere and CSI electric pumps are rated for 2,000-2,500 hours of service, but people have had them fail far sooner, and they go without warning. People have tried to create LED indicators that light when the pump stops flowing, but I haven't seen a satisfactory "early warning" solution yet, and once the pump is gone, you're done. With a mechanical pump, at least you can usually limp to where you were going.

Just fair warning for anyone considering this swap. This isn't something to go into without a full set of facts for consideration. In fact, this is one reason why I sold my 396 short block. I no longer had the option of running a mechanical pump with that configuration.

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

My water pump only weighs 2 lbs. You can read more about specifications listed here.
http://daviescraig.com.au/main/display.asp?pid=8
I haven't weighed the water pump with the water pump/thermostat housing, but can safely say it weighs significantly more than the water pump and aluminum housing adapter.

KaiFD3S

iTrader: (37)

I'm with jim on this one, why would you want to spend money on this mod and have the worry of the pump going out with no warning and the chance of overheating your motor and spending more money on a rebuild, also not many people would want to take their p/s and a/c just to do this mod when the stock water pump is fine.

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

That's fine if you feel that way, but could you guys put it in another thread and please keep this one on topic? 0

rx7tt95

You know, I don't have my 200A alternator installed yet....I'd be willing to send it out to Pineapple if they'd be willing to fab a bracket for those in need!

SPOautos

Got a question glassman....does it bolt up to the ps/ac bracket or to the actual engine?

I would like it to bolt to the actual engine and be down around the ac location.

I dont know what they have in mind, but that is my preferance. Let me know the details when you find out. I need this for my water pump conversion. I havent had time to fab my own.

Stephen

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Stephen, it attached to the actual engine where the PS, A/C bracket used to be. Fear not.

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

We've got another person interested who wants to use one with a 20B with an FD front cover.

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Just another bump. Just to confirm most of you guys are happy with a powder coated mild steel setup correct?

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Bump, hopefully we will get the details straightened out in the next few days regarding prices, fitment, options, etc... if I don't get sidetracked and buy an SRT-4 instead. :\

Swolbynos

any updates?

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

I'm still waiting to hear back from Blake regarding the prototype. When I hear something back, I'll let you know.

aarroneous

iTrader: (5)

I'm definitely interested in the bracket, I hope that Blake gets back to you soon with a prototype.

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Still no news.

87GTR

iTrader: (61)

add one more.

any updates?

aarroneous

iTrader: (5)

I'm good for at least two brackets, if production ever starts!

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Sorry I was out of town on a business trip, let me see if Blake has any updates.

Swolbynos

bump

anything new?

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Nothing new yet, I sent a PM. If I don't hear anything in the next few days I'll let you guys know.