Thanks, it looks like the IC is situated similar to the CWR and ASP, but they just mount the radiator different. How long did it take HKS to figure this out?
The best question will it ever be available here and for how much?

 

I asked him this same question, and he told me he only buys enough piping to fabricate pieces for the IC kits; he says the piping is expensive and a pain to fabricate, thus he only makes enough to stock the kits. I have an opportunity to buy a used M2 medium, but without the piping; so I guess I'll need to have someone fabricate some custom ones if I want to get the M2.

 

Yes I'll be making a pipe that fits with the air pump, basically as soon as Jason says he has an order requesting it. There will be a small additional charge for it. Unfortunately it will be normal tubing, I haven't been able to find a realistic source for a cast tube. This is very small run stuff, hard to justify $10k setup costs, 5 years ago might have been a different story.

As for the tube and fin design, when the IC was first designed it didn't exist. After it came out the closest size core was compared and the difference found essentially negligible so it wasn't worth redesigning everything for the different sized core to achieve essentially the same results.

I think Glassman hit it on the head. That HKS thing looks like a normal SMIC with a different radiator location, what was the person thinking that said it was so massive?

Kevin T. Wyum

 

"I'm hitting either Blitz or HKS. I've done some research, and with some advice from the local tuner and ended up with these. "

Christian, would you mind sharing this info?

Kevin the only benifit I saw in having FMIC is no heat soak to the intercooler. Are the ASP intercoolers truely designed well enough to match the cooling abilities of the FM's?

 

"I asked him this same question, and he told me he only buys enough piping to fabricate pieces for the IC kits; he says the piping is expensive and a pain to fabricate, thus he only makes enough to stock the kits. I have an opportunity to buy a used M2 medium, but without the piping; so I guess I'll need to have someone fabricate some custom ones if I want to get the M2. "


Close, I just can't make tubing for people that aren't buying an entire kit. The entire kits will be made with air pump tubes if requested. I've never had any interest in selling individual parts of the kits, would make it annoying to stock the right amounts of everything.

Kevin T. Wyum

 

Kevin!!

I requested the M2 medium pipe to clear the airpump from Jason!!! Did he ever get a hold of you

I was the one who purchased the kit through RX-7 store and requested the pipe to clear the airpump....

 

I dont mean to be asking questions asked a billion times, but I hear so many different things and im sure hearing it from the source is better. Hows the ducting work. What about the idea of it blocking more of the radiator air escape route because of the bigger duct? ( Myth Fact?) ?

Im really just trying to fill myself and others in on the certain falseties that exist about SMICs and then of course true readings from both SMICS and FMICS in the form of pressure drops, intake temps etc.

Also Does anyone know of a fmic other then rx-7 fasion that woudl allow some sort of CAI or heathshield design?

 

It probably does restrict the air flow slight but compare that to an FMIC that the outside air has to go through first.....

What fallacies about SMICs do you think there are? The pressure drops for almost all of the SMICs are on the Lightning in a World of Thunder site and have been for years. I've seen intake temps posted several dozen times for different IC setups.

I'll give you my review of the PFS SMIC: Normal intake temps under 13 psi of boost get up to 45-47C. On the road racing track, they got up into the 60sC but we're talking track temps well into the 100s F. When I installed the IC, I gained almost 2 psi of boost over the stock IC (which is one of the best reasons to upgrade from stock IMO).

How many more choices do you need?

 

I made my own custom CAI with a heatshield with my Greddy 2 Row FMIC, works great, not a whole lot of room to work with though, I used the duct on the passenger side since I dont have the second oil cooler to help bring in fresh air.

 

Umm, OK, so are you saying that you'll make IC tubing "kits" to fit the M2/ASP ICs for those who have everything but the tubing/connectors?

 

"Kevin!!
I requested the M2 medium pipe to clear the airpump from Jason!!! Did he ever get a hold of you
I was the one who purchased the kit through RX-7 store and requested the pipe to clear the airpump...."

When was the request made? I have three mediums going out to him now but I haven't heard a request for the air pump pipe. Did you pay extra?

"Kevin the only benifit I saw in having FMIC is no heat soak to the intercooler. Are the ASP intercoolers truely designed well enough to match the cooling abilities of the FM's?"

The heat soak issue is pretty minimal. It only applies to a period of a few seconds after extended periods at a dead stop with high underhood temp conditions. Front mounts will actually also suffer heat soak as well, the difference is they get the heat soak from the charge air
instead of radiant emissions from the radiator as well.
As for the blurb about them being designed well enough to match the cooling abilities of a front mount, are you kidding? Heh.

"I dont mean to be asking questions asked a billion times, but I hear so many different things and im sure hearing it from the source is better. Hows the ducting work. What about the idea of it blocking more of the radiator air escape route because of the bigger duct? ( Myth Fact?) ? "

Myth. Remember the radiator has a fan assembly with a cage on the back that creates an open area. There is merit to the concept that any obstruction behind the radiator will restrict flow though, in the same sense that an FMIC won't flow well because it has the radiator sitting behind it reducing airflow. I would actually guess that at least my ducts probably block airflow through the radiator by about the same amount that the OEM IC, duct, battery connection and airbox assembly does. In an ideal world the radiator would sit on the roof of the car and just happen not to create any aerodynamic issues for the car as a whole : ).

It is a good point to bring up though, most people seem to overlook the flow issues of what is in front and behind. Which is why a V mount should in theory perform better than a front mount, because it doesn't have the radiator behind it blocking flow. Of course in the same big picture my only real concern with V-mounts comes out. After very limited thought on the matter I have some concerns about high speed stability with Vmounts and the possibility of dangerous changes to some basic aerodynamics of the car in the removal of the undertray and directing frontal air downward under the car at the front. I'm willing to bet nobody has been testing these things in windtunnels, nor is the expense really justified so I guess it comes down to educated guesses, of which mine on aerodynamics is not terribly : ). Hrmm while typing this I had a little more thought, in a Vmount configuration wouldn't there be less airflow through the radiator? The air can travel two paths, it will take the path of least resistance as opposed to front mounts or stock mounts forcing essentially all air through the radiator whereas in a Vmount a very substantial amount of air will never pass through the radiator at all, or through the engine bay, meaning less overall air flow around the turbos and exhaust meaning it will also run much hotter... bleh this really can cascade. Anyway just some thoughts.

I've have had a couple beers before bed so factor that in to your reading as well as the standard disclaimer that my opinions are of course not entirely objective on the Intercooler topic despite my attempting to be strictly logical about everything.

Kevin T. Wyum

 

"Umm, OK, so are you saying that you'll make IC tubing "kits" to fit the M2/ASP ICs for those who have everything but the tubing/connectors?"

Kit, as in Intercooler kit. Meaning the whole ball of wax, core, end tanks, duct, tubing, clamps blah blah. Sorry for the confusion.

Kevin T. Wyum

 

Is it worth paying $600 more for an m2 smic,rather than getting a greddy 2 row fmic? I am deciding between these two intercoolers and am leaning towards the greddy because of the cheaper price. Any thoughts?
Aneel

 

Well, if you are having someone else install it, there goes your $600 you saved. Installing most FMICs is a lot of work, including removing the bumper, relocating rad and a/c condenser, modifying power steering pump, etc.

Installing an ASP or Pettit or PFS SMIC will take maybe 1.5-2 hours your first time (about 1/2 hour or less the second time). The only thing of any difficulty will be making the hot side pipe of the ASP IC work with an air pump (since as Kevin has pointed out, it wasn't designed to clear).

 

Kevin,

here is my previous thread.

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...ht=intercooler

On Jason's website I did specifically request for the pipe that clears the airpump, but that was in the comments section. Not verified by the phone. Maybe this slipped by him??

I am still interested in the pipe!