INTERCOOLER the solution to most problems????
01-19-02, 10:53 PM
#26
Re: M2 Large IC Stage 3 NO ECU upgrade, Plumbing fit with R1 Strut brace
Originally posted by SleepR1
A few questions:
Also, do you know if the M2 Large IC plumbing will fit UNDER the R1/R2 strut brace? Every pic I see of an M2 Large IC and its associated plumbing, I see the Cusco strut brace, NOT the factory R1/R2 strut brace (I have an R1). IMO I think the factory brace is so cool with the "Rx7" logo right on it. I'd hate to replace the factory brace with the Cusco. I guess if I had to remove the brace altogether to allow the M2 IC plumbing to fit, that might help with my increased understeer problem with the staggered fr/rr tire setup?
Thanks in advance!
A few questions:
Also, do you know if the M2 Large IC plumbing will fit UNDER the R1/R2 strut brace? Every pic I see of an M2 Large IC and its associated plumbing, I see the Cusco strut brace, NOT the factory R1/R2 strut brace (I have an R1). IMO I think the factory brace is so cool with the "Rx7" logo right on it. I'd hate to replace the factory brace with the Cusco. I guess if I had to remove the brace altogether to allow the M2 IC plumbing to fit, that might help with my increased understeer problem with the staggered fr/rr tire setup?
Thanks in advance!
01-20-02, 03:10 AM
#27
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I might have missed something while scanning the replies, but I expected to see some mention of an increased turbo lag from a larger intercooler. I'd expect it to put more airspace between the turbo and the piston, which would take longer to pressurize from the same pump. Of course the stock car already has an intercooler that doesn't seem to slow things down very noticeably, so I wouldn't expect a larger intercooler to add an intolerable delay between pedal movement and engine output, but maybe it's something to consider.
01-20-02, 08:55 AM
#28
Lives on the Forum
Gordon
So going with a larger radiator will cool things down in the motor, thus decreasing the chances for detonation? How about running 104 Sunoco unleaded? I really don't experience warm motor temps unless at the crooked tracks. I usually run 104 octane, or at the very least, super octane boost in 93 or 94 pump gas...
The medium M2 IC is the same price as the M2 Large. I planned to relocate the battery anyway for better weight balance...just seemed the like the right thing to do?
The water mist injector you're referring to...do you use that with the stock IC? How do I find out more about that water injector. Perhaps, that could serve as a temporary solution until I do the motor and mod build-up?
The medium M2 IC is the same price as the M2 Large. I planned to relocate the battery anyway for better weight balance...just seemed the like the right thing to do?
The water mist injector you're referring to...do you use that with the stock IC? How do I find out more about that water injector. Perhaps, that could serve as a temporary solution until I do the motor and mod build-up?
01-20-02, 08:57 AM
#29
Lives on the Forum
glass man
Thanks for posting the pic...honestly that is the first R1/R2 pic I've ever seen with the large IC and plumbing in place!
Is that Trev's IC ducting and intake? I thought they weren't availabe anymore?
Is that Trev's IC ducting and intake? I thought they weren't availabe anymore?
01-20-02, 09:21 AM
#30
Lives on the Forum
subspace
Yeah, it seems counter intuitive doesn't it...larger intercooler would seem to add more plumbing for the charge air to go before actually making it to the intake manifold, thus increasing the lag in throttle response...in fact the opposite occurs.
I'll give it a shot...
The medium and large AEM (after market equipment) ICs present a much smaller restriction to intake charge air flow, from the turbo impellers and intake system, to the intake manifold because, the larger ICs are more efficient in flowing air (someone else can explain this part)
Because the larger IC decreases air restriction from the turbo impellers (and intake system) to the intake manifold, the exhaust flow out of the turbos, can flow out FASTER, which effectively decreases exhaust back pressure (especially if you have a downpipe, high-flow cat, and catback like I do).
When you decrease exhaust back pressure, then your turbos can spool more quickly and make boost so fast that boost spikes occur. Spiking could possibly lean the air-fuel mixture if the stock ECU cannot keep up with the fuel additions.
So in fact you get a much more immediate throttle response, NOT a lag...assuming you have the proper fuel additions to keep the motor from leaning out!
I'll give it a shot...
The medium and large AEM (after market equipment) ICs present a much smaller restriction to intake charge air flow, from the turbo impellers and intake system, to the intake manifold because, the larger ICs are more efficient in flowing air (someone else can explain this part)
Because the larger IC decreases air restriction from the turbo impellers (and intake system) to the intake manifold, the exhaust flow out of the turbos, can flow out FASTER, which effectively decreases exhaust back pressure (especially if you have a downpipe, high-flow cat, and catback like I do).
When you decrease exhaust back pressure, then your turbos can spool more quickly and make boost so fast that boost spikes occur. Spiking could possibly lean the air-fuel mixture if the stock ECU cannot keep up with the fuel additions.
So in fact you get a much more immediate throttle response, NOT a lag...assuming you have the proper fuel additions to keep the motor from leaning out!
Originally posted by Subspace
I might have missed something while scanning the replies, but I expected to see some mention of an increased turbo lag from a larger intercooler. I'd expect it to put more airspace between the turbo and the piston, which would take longer to pressurize from the same pump. Of course the stock car already has an intercooler that doesn't seem to slow things down very noticeably, so I wouldn't expect a larger intercooler to add an intolerable delay between pedal movement and engine output, but maybe it's something to consider.
I might have missed something while scanning the replies, but I expected to see some mention of an increased turbo lag from a larger intercooler. I'd expect it to put more airspace between the turbo and the piston, which would take longer to pressurize from the same pump. Of course the stock car already has an intercooler that doesn't seem to slow things down very noticeably, so I wouldn't expect a larger intercooler to add an intolerable delay between pedal movement and engine output, but maybe it's something to consider.
01-20-02, 05:28 PM
#31
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by Subspace
I'd expect it to put more airspace between the turbo and the piston,
I'd expect it to put more airspace between the turbo and the piston,
01-21-02, 12:08 PM
#33
Ex fd *****
Our stock ecus only measure intake temp & pressure and then use a fixed value for the restricton of the intake/exhaust tract to determine air flow rate and compute the amount of fuel required. Thus the ecu can not adjust for any change to the configuration of the intake/exhaust tract that reduces that restriction (Increases flow for a given Manifold Press.). However the stock pressure/flow/fuel maps are very conservative and provide a LOT OF EXTRA FUEL, esp. at high intake temps. As you reduce intake temps the ecu uses leaner maps but does not know that because of the mods you have done the engine is flowing more LBS/Sec of air and need more fuel, thats why a larger IC can lead to LEAN mixtures and detonation. also I have read that the M2 Med IC provides 99% as much cooling as the Large and actually flows better (it has the same core cross section flow area but is a little shorter) The cooling capacity of a SMIC will ultimately be limited by how much air you can flow through the duct over the radiator - the M2 med is at or near the limit for the amount of air the stock duct can flow - to get the most out of a larger IC you ned a larger duct.
01-21-02, 12:32 PM
#34
Lives on the Forum
David Mark
Yeah, good explanation.
You all have convinced me to do this right and get an ECU upgrade (M2 Stage 3).
What about CWC's large IC. I understand that has a duct also. Anyone have good results with that versus the M2 Large?
Has anyone enlarged the duct opening for the M2 Large (or ICs as large as the M2 Large)?
You all have convinced me to do this right and get an ECU upgrade (M2 Stage 3).
What about CWC's large IC. I understand that has a duct also. Anyone have good results with that versus the M2 Large?
Has anyone enlarged the duct opening for the M2 Large (or ICs as large as the M2 Large)?
