Intercooler Choices
05-06-03, 06:58 AM
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Intercooler Choices
After much discussion, I have chosen to go ahead with an upgraded (higher flow) stock turbo set-up (BNR's/M2). My set-up should produce in the ball-park of 350-400rwhp (with all the other exhaust, porting..etc. mods). This car will be used for occasional track days (rare drags, more tracking) and as a daily driver.
My next question is what intercooler should I choose? I have read endless threads comparing FMIC vs SMIC. My main concerns are the pressure drop, and operating temps. I looked at some size/temp comparisons between various intercoolers, but was unable to really decide which one would be best for me. I keep hearing FMIC is for dragging, and SMIC is for touring/everyday driving. However, the boyz on here with the greddy FMIC say otherwise. It seems as though it gets tricky when a person tries to exceed 14-15 psi boost levels. I have read that some IC's are better at handling high boost applications opposed to others. Perhaps I can't get a definite answer, but I would like to hear what you veterans have to say before dropping my life savings!!!
From all the post I have read, it seems as though the M2 SMIC's and Greddy FMIC's are the products of choice. For my applications, would a med or large M2 IC be more suitable? Further, which Greddy would be better, 2 or 3-row? Plus I am still open to any other suggestions.
I'll stop before this thread becomes a novel! Thx for all the help everyone.
My next question is what intercooler should I choose? I have read endless threads comparing FMIC vs SMIC. My main concerns are the pressure drop, and operating temps. I looked at some size/temp comparisons between various intercoolers, but was unable to really decide which one would be best for me. I keep hearing FMIC is for dragging, and SMIC is for touring/everyday driving. However, the boyz on here with the greddy FMIC say otherwise. It seems as though it gets tricky when a person tries to exceed 14-15 psi boost levels. I have read that some IC's are better at handling high boost applications opposed to others. Perhaps I can't get a definite answer, but I would like to hear what you veterans have to say before dropping my life savings!!!
From all the post I have read, it seems as though the M2 SMIC's and Greddy FMIC's are the products of choice. For my applications, would a med or large M2 IC be more suitable? Further, which Greddy would be better, 2 or 3-row? Plus I am still open to any other suggestions.
I'll stop before this thread becomes a novel! Thx for all the help everyone.
05-06-03, 07:12 AM
#2
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
I'm no veteran but I can tell you that the greddy FMIC will make you run a bit warmer (few °C warmer). It really isn't a problem if you have your fans set to come on at a lower temp, or you have the fan mod. the thing about the FMIC is that the install is a bit challenging. I am totally satisfied with my FMIC and I don't regret doing the install...However, if I were to get another FD I would do the SMIC mainly becasue of laziness and not wanting to mess with the install.
Since you are sticking with the BnR twins the M2Medium or the 2 row will work for you...the 3 Row is used for the big single turbos guys...For stock twins I have read that there is some noticable pressure drop but not sure if it's the same for the BnR twins.
Considering you are in BC I don't think extreme high temps are a concern for you...What kind of temps do you see in the summer? I have still yet to run my FMIC in the 110°F summer temps of Oklahoma so I don't know how it will do. My guess is it'll do fine but we will see for sure soon.
Since you are sticking with the BnR twins the M2Medium or the 2 row will work for you...the 3 Row is used for the big single turbos guys...For stock twins I have read that there is some noticable pressure drop but not sure if it's the same for the BnR twins.
Considering you are in BC I don't think extreme high temps are a concern for you...What kind of temps do you see in the summer? I have still yet to run my FMIC in the 110°F summer temps of Oklahoma so I don't know how it will do. My guess is it'll do fine but we will see for sure soon.
05-06-03, 07:28 AM
#3
You also have the option of a V-mount intercooler, which in my opinion is pretty much the best way to go. Everything gets plenty of air....the intercooler, radiator, and intake. If you would like to check it out go to www.rotaryextreme.com
05-06-03, 09:25 AM
#5
Waiting for the RX-9
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have the Greddy FMIC. Installation was a PIA.
Plan on upgrading your radiator at the same time. Also, some intakes dont fit with the Greddy. I am having to do a lot of custom chopping to try to get my Apexi in and cleaned up. I am considering desiging an intake to go behing the FMIC and in front of the radiatior. Would anyone be interested. Remember, the air would be cool, because the IC is cool until you get on it, and by then there mega air flow.
Plan on upgrading your radiator at the same time. Also, some intakes dont fit with the Greddy. I am having to do a lot of custom chopping to try to get my Apexi in and cleaned up. I am considering desiging an intake to go behing the FMIC and in front of the radiatior. Would anyone be interested. Remember, the air would be cool, because the IC is cool until you get on it, and by then there mega air flow.
05-06-03, 09:52 AM
#7
Full Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Rafael, CA
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
apneablue: The V-mount is not really that much more. You're going to $2300 vs. $1900-$2100 ($1500 IC, $400-$550 Radiator). It comes with new hoses, clamps, etc. Most people end up with CAI and a greddy elbow anyway. and either go to a mini battery or relocate. If you're starting from scratch, it may seem like alot of money but if you add it all up, it's not that much more. You get a matched system that works better than any other combo available IMHO (and I have one so I think I am qualified to make that statement). Tom
Trending Topics
05-06-03, 10:07 AM
#9
Lives on the Forum
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Lorenzo, California
Posts: 14,716
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
I agree, Rotary Extreme's V-mount is THE set-up right now.
I would have gone with it myself but it is a large sum of cash all at once, instead of buying each individual piece over time. Not included in the $2300 cost is $450 for the V-mount intake (or you can use your own CAI-box style) or $250 for a mini-battery and case (or relocation).
That said, in the future, I will be selling my radiator, intake, and SMIC to get the V-mount.
I would have gone with it myself but it is a large sum of cash all at once, instead of buying each individual piece over time. Not included in the $2300 cost is $450 for the V-mount intake (or you can use your own CAI-box style) or $250 for a mini-battery and case (or relocation).
That said, in the future, I will be selling my radiator, intake, and SMIC to get the V-mount.
05-06-03, 12:12 PM
#10
Originally posted by tmiked
I have the Greddy FMIC. Installation was a PIA.
Plan on upgrading your radiator at the same time. Also, some intakes dont fit with the Greddy. I am having to do a lot of custom chopping to try to get my Apexi in and cleaned up. I am considering desiging an intake to go behing the FMIC and in front of the radiatior. Would anyone be interested. Remember, the air would be cool, because the IC is cool until you get on it, and by then there mega air flow.
I have the Greddy FMIC. Installation was a PIA.
Plan on upgrading your radiator at the same time. Also, some intakes dont fit with the Greddy. I am having to do a lot of custom chopping to try to get my Apexi in and cleaned up. I am considering desiging an intake to go behing the FMIC and in front of the radiatior. Would anyone be interested. Remember, the air would be cool, because the IC is cool until you get on it, and by then there mega air flow.
05-06-03, 01:22 PM
#11
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Originally posted by tgriesel
apneablue: The V-mount is not really that much more. You're going to $2300 vs. $1900-$2100 ($1500 IC, $400-$550 Radiator). It comes with new hoses, clamps, etc. Most people end up with CAI and a greddy elbow anyway. and either go to a mini battery or relocate. If you're starting from scratch, it may seem like alot of money but if you add it all up, it's not that much more. You get a matched system that works better than any other combo available IMHO (and I have one so I think I am qualified to make that statement). Tom
apneablue: The V-mount is not really that much more. You're going to $2300 vs. $1900-$2100 ($1500 IC, $400-$550 Radiator). It comes with new hoses, clamps, etc. Most people end up with CAI and a greddy elbow anyway. and either go to a mini battery or relocate. If you're starting from scratch, it may seem like alot of money but if you add it all up, it's not that much more. You get a matched system that works better than any other combo available IMHO (and I have one so I think I am qualified to make that statement). Tom
Elbow $110
Koyo Rad $360
Lawn Mower Battery
$ 45Grand Total $1414
Plus a whole weekend to install it
That's a $886 difference compared to the horizontal mount...I am not saying GET the Greddy FMIC...I am just saying that I am totally happy with the FMIC and totally happy with the price I paid and don't think I would go with the horizontal mount unless someone gave it to me.
05-06-03, 01:44 PM
#13
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Originally posted by tgriesel
apneablue: You have a beautiful car indeed! And I agree, there are less expensive choices. Where exactly is "The Flemish Cap."? Tom
apneablue: You have a beautiful car indeed! And I agree, there are less expensive choices. Where exactly is "The Flemish Cap."? Tom
I actually live in Ok
05-06-03, 01:55 PM
#14
Waiting for the RX-9
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shinobi
For the upper intake, I just used an aluminum tube and silicone connectors. The filter is up high right in front of the strut bar.
The lower (front) intake, I havent found a place for. Right now I have it curled around in front of the motor using stock accordion tube. I have ordered some 45deg 2.5 in silicone elbows and may try shortening the Apexi body and mounting it direct to the front intake.
Long term, I would like to run a 3" tube (posssibly oval?) over the radiator and install a flat paper element at the top of the area between the radiator and the FMIC. I dont think K&N or Apexi filters really filter anything except possibly rocks and small children.
The lower (front) intake, I havent found a place for. Right now I have it curled around in front of the motor using stock accordion tube. I have ordered some 45deg 2.5 in silicone elbows and may try shortening the Apexi body and mounting it direct to the front intake.
Long term, I would like to run a 3" tube (posssibly oval?) over the radiator and install a flat paper element at the top of the area between the radiator and the FMIC. I dont think K&N or Apexi filters really filter anything except possibly rocks and small children.
05-06-03, 02:03 PM
#15
tmiked,
The upper intake is the easy one, and I had the same plan in mind. However, I was curious about the lower one as well. If anything, it may come down to a variation of your plan. Would you be able to post some pics of your current setup?
The upper intake is the easy one, and I had the same plan in mind. However, I was curious about the lower one as well. If anything, it may come down to a variation of your plan. Would you be able to post some pics of your current setup?
They've been posted in the lounge many times under the best woman threads. 
So my end is done...now...about your end...let's see those intakes mr.
05-06-03, 03:23 PM
#21
Rotary Freak
Originally posted by Cihuuy
jpandes: the M2 large intercooler, does it include their own ducting?? from the pix it looked like it does not cover all the opening!?!
jpandes: the M2 large intercooler, does it include their own ducting?? from the pix it looked like it does not cover all the opening!?!
Yeah, it does come with a nicely made fiberglass duct. The reasone why mine is "offset" by an inch is because I didn't want to relocate the battery to the rear. The mini battery is crammed in there, as you can see from the pic. Normally, you have to relocate your battery to the rear when you use the ASP/Pettit/M2 large SMIC.
BTW, I bought the Large Smic and the Mini battery kit used from "Alaskan 7"
05-07-03, 05:18 AM
#24
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The temp in summer in Vancouver get to about 32 celsius tops...so not too worried about overheating. I just strted to learn more about the v-mount now. Has anybody put out any numbers (temp, pressure drop...etc.) with this IC??? It looks good in concept, just curious if it's an over-kill for me. Do the M2 IC's support boost over 15 psi?
Thx for all the help thus far everyone!
Thx for all the help thus far everyone!
05-07-03, 06:04 AM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Myanmar
Posts: 658
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by jpandes
Yeah, it does come with a nicely made fiberglass duct. The reasone why mine is "offset" by an inch is because I didn't want to relocate the battery to the rear. The mini battery is crammed in there, as you can see from the pic. Normally, you have to relocate your battery to the rear when you use the ASP/Pettit/M2 large SMIC.
BTW, I bought the Large Smic and the Mini battery kit used from "Alaskan 7"
Yeah, it does come with a nicely made fiberglass duct. The reasone why mine is "offset" by an inch is because I didn't want to relocate the battery to the rear. The mini battery is crammed in there, as you can see from the pic. Normally, you have to relocate your battery to the rear when you use the ASP/Pettit/M2 large SMIC.
BTW, I bought the Large Smic and the Mini battery kit used from "Alaskan 7"