Importing Spirit R idea if money was no problem...
06-15-12, 09:38 AM
#1
Importing Spirit R idea if money was no problem...
If I had tons of money and did this, would it be legal?
Buy 93-95 USDM FD roller for cheap, strip it to just the chassis/frame.
Buy Spirit R in Japan or Australia or wherever
Ship the empty frame there and transfer all the Spirit R parts into it
Ship the completed car back to the US, register it as a 93-95.
? Well?
Buy 93-95 USDM FD roller for cheap, strip it to just the chassis/frame.
Buy Spirit R in Japan or Australia or wherever
Ship the empty frame there and transfer all the Spirit R parts into it
Ship the completed car back to the US, register it as a 93-95.
? Well?
06-15-12, 09:43 AM
#2
Wastegate John
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It would make more sense to just ship all of the Spirit R parts to you where you put the parts on. Why ship a USDM car then ship it back?
It seems foolish to ship a car twice.
If you just transfer the parts and make it RHD using the USDM chassis it should be "legal".
It seems foolish to ship a car twice.
If you just transfer the parts and make it RHD using the USDM chassis it should be "legal".
06-15-12, 10:37 AM
#7
hahaha I've read them all, been here long enough. Besides, it's not a "I want to import" thread, it's a "would it be legal to do this" thread. And I just wanted to see new comments and entertaining posts so far it has been a success!
I rather ship the empty chassis (1 part) have it sit next to the donor Spirit R in the shop to have the parts swapped carefully and properly with no risk of them getting lost or damaged in transit. Then ship the completed car back.
It's much more convenient and safe than shipping all the parts including hood/doors/hatch, etc. even if it costs more. Remember, in this hypothesis money is no issue.
It would make more sense to just ship all of the Spirit R parts to you where you put the parts on. Why ship a USDM car then ship it back?
It seems foolish to ship a car twice.
If you just transfer the parts and make it RHD using the USDM chassis it should be "legal".
It seems foolish to ship a car twice.
If you just transfer the parts and make it RHD using the USDM chassis it should be "legal".
It's much more convenient and safe than shipping all the parts including hood/doors/hatch, etc. even if it costs more. Remember, in this hypothesis money is no issue.
Last edited by neit_jnf; 06-15-12 at 10:40 AM.
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06-15-12, 10:39 AM
#8
I don't really understand why you would do it though. Short of touting that you have a Spirit R, what is the real point. If you are looking for a mint car, a low mileage FD can be bought in the US. If you want power, you can easily build a 4-500whp single turbo FD on pump with no issues.
I absolutely don't understand the want for JDM cars....
06-15-12, 10:49 AM
#9
Pretty much a +1 on everything RenesisFD said. However, I do understand the shipping as a whole concept.
I don't really understand why you would do it though. Short of touting that you have a Spirit R, what is the real point. If you are looking for a mint car, a low mileage FD can be bought in the US. If you want power, you can easily build a 4-500whp single turbo FD on pump with no issues.
I absolutely don't understand the want for JDM cars....
I don't really understand why you would do it though. Short of touting that you have a Spirit R, what is the real point. If you are looking for a mint car, a low mileage FD can be bought in the US. If you want power, you can easily build a 4-500whp single turbo FD on pump with no issues.
I absolutely don't understand the want for JDM cars....
Because if money was no issue then it doesn't need to have a point. Just because it can be done, or because newer car instead of older car or as a collectible in it's original form as the last RX-7 built or just to take it to shows, or whatever.
06-15-12, 11:03 AM
#12
Technically it's not a rhd conversion though, it's a new-car-in-old-chassis-so-it-can-be-registered conversion.
And if we never created new threads because someone already did then there wouldn't be new single turbo conversion threads, or engine swap threads, or in our forum basically no new threads at all because on RX-7's someone somewhere already did it anyway.
And if we never created new threads because someone already did then there wouldn't be new single turbo conversion threads, or engine swap threads, or in our forum basically no new threads at all because on RX-7's someone somewhere already did it anyway.
06-15-12, 11:28 AM
#16
Assuming you have to follow the rules of the US, short answer, it would not be legal. Could you get away with it? Maybe, depending on what type of inspections you have to go through.
To actually be legal you would have to keep the USDM long block with all emissions and stock ECU.
Lights (headlights, taillights, turn signals) would need US DOT markings.
Would need to keep all US crash structures (bumper, door crash beams, etc.)
Things like the hood, rear hatch, rear wing, wheels, interior should all be legal to swap, with the possible exceptions of seats/seatbelts.
Not sure about bumper covers; I think as long as the underlying crash beams are intact it should be okay.
Now realistically, the only thing that an inspector would notice would be the engine.
To actually be legal you would have to keep the USDM long block with all emissions and stock ECU.
Lights (headlights, taillights, turn signals) would need US DOT markings.
Would need to keep all US crash structures (bumper, door crash beams, etc.)
Things like the hood, rear hatch, rear wing, wheels, interior should all be legal to swap, with the possible exceptions of seats/seatbelts.
Not sure about bumper covers; I think as long as the underlying crash beams are intact it should be okay.
Now realistically, the only thing that an inspector would notice would be the engine.
06-15-12, 12:18 PM
#17
Step 1- cut Spirit R in half.
Step 2- legally import both halves.
Step 3- carefully transfer all the parts from your Spirit R front and rear cuts to USDM FD.
Step 4- realize that though it is still illegal to put DOT parts on USDM FD at least you have succeeded in destroying 1 Spirit R and 1 USDM FD and found a way to illegally register 1 modified car that is neither of the aforementioned cars.
Step 2- legally import both halves.
Step 3- carefully transfer all the parts from your Spirit R front and rear cuts to USDM FD.
Step 4- realize that though it is still illegal to put DOT parts on USDM FD at least you have succeeded in destroying 1 Spirit R and 1 USDM FD and found a way to illegally register 1 modified car that is neither of the aforementioned cars.
06-15-12, 12:31 PM
#18
Assuming you have to follow the rules of the US, short answer, it would not be legal. Could you get away with it? Maybe, depending on what type of inspections you have to go through.
To actually be legal you would have to keep the USDM long block with all emissions and stock ECU.
Lights (headlights, taillights, turn signals) would need US DOT markings.
Would need to keep all US crash structures (bumper, door crash beams, etc.)
Things like the hood, rear hatch, rear wing, wheels, interior should all be legal to swap, with the possible exceptions of seats/seatbelts.
Not sure about bumper covers; I think as long as the underlying crash beams are intact it should be okay.
Now realistically, the only thing that an inspector would notice would be the engine.
To actually be legal you would have to keep the USDM long block with all emissions and stock ECU.
Lights (headlights, taillights, turn signals) would need US DOT markings.
Would need to keep all US crash structures (bumper, door crash beams, etc.)
Things like the hood, rear hatch, rear wing, wheels, interior should all be legal to swap, with the possible exceptions of seats/seatbelts.
Not sure about bumper covers; I think as long as the underlying crash beams are intact it should be okay.
Now realistically, the only thing that an inspector would notice would be the engine.
If anyone doubts this, feel free to call the NHTSA and ask for yourself.
NHTSA Import and Certification Division: (202) 366-5291
The whole "kit car" route doesn't work either:
http://www.epa.gov/oms/imports/kitcar.htm
"Motor vehicles" must comply with the Clean Air Act and may not be disassembled nor purchased in a disassembled form for the purposes of evading the Clean Air Act or the Imports regulations. In these situations the kit car body/chassis combination must be certified by the manufacturer, must be in a configuration which was previously certified by EPA subject to the guidelines discussed at "2" above or, in the case of an importation, an EPA form 3520-1 must be filed at the port of entry and the vehicle imported by an eligible ICI who must ensure that the kit car body/chassis complies with all applicable emission requirements. At the present time, there are no ICIs eligible to import kit cars.
"Motor vehicles" must comply with the Clean Air Act and may not be disassembled nor purchased in a disassembled form for the purposes of evading the Clean Air Act or the Imports regulations. In these situations the kit car body/chassis combination must be certified by the manufacturer, must be in a configuration which was previously certified by EPA subject to the guidelines discussed at "2" above or, in the case of an importation, an EPA form 3520-1 must be filed at the port of entry and the vehicle imported by an eligible ICI who must ensure that the kit car body/chassis complies with all applicable emission requirements. At the present time, there are no ICIs eligible to import kit cars.
http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resour.../engswitch.pdf
Another situation recently brought to EPA's attention involves the offering for sale of used foreign-built engines. These engines are often not covered by a certified configuration for any vehicle sold in this country. In such a case, there is no way to install such an engine legally (into a USDM car).
Another situation recently brought to EPA's attention involves the offering for sale of used foreign-built engines. These engines are often not covered by a certified configuration for any vehicle sold in this country. In such a case, there is no way to install such an engine legally (into a USDM car).
Is it legal to import a JDM motor? Of course. But it's not legal to use most JDM motors in a USDM chassis on public roads.
Read up: http://www.epa.gov/oms/imports/documents/420b11015.pdf
Here's the EPA form you have to fill out when importing a motor http://www.epa.gov/oms/imports/documents/3520-1.pdf
The only way you can import a car/motor from another country & install it in a USDM chasis is if:
1) code B - U.S. certified - unmodified vehicle bearing a U.S. EPA emission control label in the engine compartment
2) code EE - identical in all material respects to a U.S. certified version, with proof (e.g. a letter from manufacturer's U.S. representative on letterhead stating that the vehicle is identical to a U.S. EPA certified version with respect to emissions.
3) code E - vehicle is at least 21 years old and in original unmodified configuration
4) code L - racing vehicle as determined by the EPA and may not be registered or licensed for use on or operated on public roads or highways.
Anyone running a JDM motor (whether it be a 13B, or 20B) got their motor because they (or someone else) filled out this form when importing the motor. There is nothing illegal about importing the motor - however they do break the law the minute they install the motor into a USDM chassis that is registered and driven on the street.
Whether or not they get caught is another story...but most people assume they'll never get caught or they don't know what they're doing is illegal in the first place.
I've heard some guys try to claim that their JDM swap is legal...they've convinced themselves of that, but to date I have yet to see anyone post any sort of documents or letters from the NHTSA or EPA saying it's a-okay.
ALL THAT BEING SAID... Can you do as you described in post #1? Yes of course. Will it be legal on state & federal levels? Not likely. Will you ever get caught? That's for you to decide.
06-15-12, 12:51 PM
#19
Step 1- cut Spirit R in half.
Step 2- legally import both halves.
Step 3- carefully transfer all the parts from your Spirit R front and rear cuts to USDM FD.
Step 4- realize that though it is still illegal to put DOT parts on USDM FD at least you have succeeded in destroying 1 Spirit R and 1 USDM FD and found a way to illegally register 1 modified car that is neither of the aforementioned cars.
Step 2- legally import both halves.
Step 3- carefully transfer all the parts from your Spirit R front and rear cuts to USDM FD.
Step 4- realize that though it is still illegal to put DOT parts on USDM FD at least you have succeeded in destroying 1 Spirit R and 1 USDM FD and found a way to illegally register 1 modified car that is neither of the aforementioned cars.
06-15-12, 01:45 PM
#20
if the usdm chassis to be used is currently registered then after all the spirit r parts are swapped it doesn't need to go through inspection does it?
now, from theorie's post above then all 13B cosmo and 20B swaps and replacement jdm motor swaps are illegal? what about LSx or 1jz, 2jz swaps, illegal as well? Reman motors other than factory remans? 4-rotors? PFC or any other non factory ECU?
single turbo conversions and emission elimination illegal?
so basically most of us are driving illegally registered cars?
as I understand, the only way to be fully legal is to be 100% stock or modded only with carb approved parts, right?
now, from theorie's post above then all 13B cosmo and 20B swaps and replacement jdm motor swaps are illegal? what about LSx or 1jz, 2jz swaps, illegal as well? Reman motors other than factory remans? 4-rotors? PFC or any other non factory ECU?
single turbo conversions and emission elimination illegal?
so basically most of us are driving illegally registered cars?
as I understand, the only way to be fully legal is to be 100% stock or modded only with carb approved parts, right?
Last edited by neit_jnf; 06-15-12 at 01:47 PM.
06-15-12, 02:27 PM
#21
If money was no object, you'd have to pay well over $100k because the DOT, NHTSA, or US Customs will want to wreck 3 or 4 cars.
One for head on, one for side impact, and one for rear impact and maybe one for an angled collision.
Then they'll have to analyze the data collected and have you make the modifications of what they want done to make the car safe and legal.
Not to mention they might have to make you have the car meet certain emissions regulations.
Oh and all the changes need to be performed by a Registered Importer, NOT you.
Thats the general gyst of what needs to be done as far as what I can remember
One for head on, one for side impact, and one for rear impact and maybe one for an angled collision.
Then they'll have to analyze the data collected and have you make the modifications of what they want done to make the car safe and legal.
Not to mention they might have to make you have the car meet certain emissions regulations.
Oh and all the changes need to be performed by a Registered Importer, NOT you.
Thats the general gyst of what needs to be done as far as what I can remember
06-15-12, 02:41 PM
#23
Basically yes. Federal regulations are not quite as strict as California, but any removal or tampering of any emissions components is illegal.
06-15-12, 03:08 PM
#24
Yup.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/7522
"Federal law makes it illegal for ANYONE to tamper with, disconnect, remove or otherwise render inoperative ANY emissions-related control device. The Environmental Protection Agency and most states have actually been rather lax about enforcing this rule on motorists, but they haven't hesitated to nail professional service facilities that have been guilty of tampering. Even so, the fines can be hefty. A violation may make you liable for up to a $2,500 fine."
Remove the air-pump? Illegal. Even installing a downpipe is illegal. According to the EPA:
Yep.
Yep.
Like I said before, just because you don't get caught, doesn't mean it's not illegal. The question is, do you think you'll ever get caught? Chances are, no you won't. lol
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/7522
"Federal law makes it illegal for ANYONE to tamper with, disconnect, remove or otherwise render inoperative ANY emissions-related control device. The Environmental Protection Agency and most states have actually been rather lax about enforcing this rule on motorists, but they haven't hesitated to nail professional service facilities that have been guilty of tampering. Even so, the fines can be hefty. A violation may make you liable for up to a $2,500 fine."
Remove the air-pump? Illegal. Even installing a downpipe is illegal. According to the EPA:
http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resour...hsysrepair.pdf
Under federal law, catalytic converters may not be removed and replaced with "converter replacement pipes' by any person. The 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments even prohibit private individuals from installing "converter replacement pipes" on their own vehicles. Anyone who installs such pipes would violate section 203(a)(3)(A) and (B) of the Clean Air Act (Act).
In addition to federal law, forty-five out of the fifty States also have statutes or regulations which prohibit tampering with the pollution control equipment on motor vehicles or driving or selling such vehicles. Thus, vehicle owners who tamper with their own vehicles may be subject to substantial penalties under both federal and State law.
Under federal law, catalytic converters may not be removed and replaced with "converter replacement pipes' by any person. The 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments even prohibit private individuals from installing "converter replacement pipes" on their own vehicles. Anyone who installs such pipes would violate section 203(a)(3)(A) and (B) of the Clean Air Act (Act).
In addition to federal law, forty-five out of the fifty States also have statutes or regulations which prohibit tampering with the pollution control equipment on motor vehicles or driving or selling such vehicles. Thus, vehicle owners who tamper with their own vehicles may be subject to substantial penalties under both federal and State law.
Like I said before, just because you don't get caught, doesn't mean it's not illegal. The question is, do you think you'll ever get caught? Chances are, no you won't. lol
