twinturboteddy

Here are current Details about my car.

18x8 235/40/18
18x10 275/35/18

R1 stock sway bars.

R1 front strut bar
cusco rear strut bar.

H&R springs (do not know spring rate)
Koni Yellow Adj shocks.

My ride is INCREDIBLY uncomfortable and I am really fed up with it. What's the point in having an adjustable suspension if you can dial it in to accomodate for the rough roads of LA?

The stiff ride combined with a 6 puck, short shifter, and a bad 5th gear synchro is driving me up the wall. Plus my car is a little too low, the front wheels rub the fenders when I throw it into a turn. The mounting purch is on the highest point right now and the car is still a little too low.

I am swapping the H&R Springs for Eibach Springs (i think they only make one brand for the FD). They don't lower the car that much, and the spring rate looks like it is less.

I am even considering swapping the strust for Tokico Adj shocks hoping that they are not as stiff.

God help me, I have JimLab complete bushing kit sitting in my closet for 1.5 years, God help me if I install them. OUCH!



Anyone have experience on the differences


EIBACH - H&R
TOKICO - KONI Yellow

jmseven

Yeah....Koni's are naturally dampened the "hard-way". You might need to use Tok.Illumina's. The softest setting is pretty comfy.

Are you set on just using coil-overs, if not, I suggest you just use the RB performace springs. In regards to the Eibach springs....you are going the same route. I believe that tha rate should be almost identical.

Yeah...if those are upgrade bushings (urethane, etc), get ready to feel every crack in the road. Increable feed back, but the squeeks.....ug.

jimlab

I think the Eibach springs are more forgiving because they're progressive and not linear. Also, the Eibach Pro-Kit springs don't lower the car as aggressively as the H&R springs do.

A friend also had Koni yellows and H&R Springs on his car, and I originally had Koni yellows (same model) and Eibach springs on mine. I was able to run the normal P275/40-17 in the back and P245/45-17s in the front without rubbing. When he was shopping for wheels, we slapped my wheels and tires on his car and they rubbed in both the front and the back. He said his spring perches were on the top notch, and we verified this, yet his car was still about an inch lower than mine.

I'd recommend the Eibach Pro-Kit springs, or get a coil-over setup with a wide range of shock and ride height adjustability, and you can dial in your suspension to suit you better.

alwan16

i have the konis with the eibachs right now and it's a pretty comfortable ride right now. it is definitely because of the progressive nature of the eibach springs. not the best for racing but good for the street. i'm moving away from them though because the progressive shocks are just don't give you the instantaneous feedback that linear rate springs give you. having said that they are fine for street driving though.

i'm going to a 550/450 super r suspension now though. after riding in a friend's car with the tein ha with almost the same spring rate i'm willing to live with the stiffness. if we had smooth roads we could all run such high spring rates...

thatoneguy

Eibach pro-kits are linear springs. Don't let the name fool you. I had Pro-kits on Koni yellows and it was really really harsh driving around LA on the softest setting. Change out the shocks, they're the stiffest part.

jimlab

Well, that's contrary to what Eibach has to say on the subject, and I suppose they'd know...

http://www.eibach.com/prokit.htm (5th paragraph)

While Eibach does make linear spring sets, the Pro-Kit springs are not linear.

Here's an article on the Tire Rack site on Eibach vs. H&R springs...

http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/t...bach_hr_rd.htm

True Choice, a huge distributor of Eibach products, seems to think that they're progressive rate springs also...

http://www.truechoice.com/products/suspension.html

Of course, they could all be worng, and your butt may be the expert on the subject.

pomanferrari

iTrader: (1)

You guys out in California, quit whining about the rough roads... I was out there last week and the roads on 405, 5, 110 are smooth concrete not like the snow damaged asphalt we have back in the northeast. Try driving in D.C. with 550 lbs/in front and 450 lbs./in rear with tokicos. I had the tokicos with stock springs, with high rate springs. Tokicos are not for the high rate springs. It was either too soft or too hard - in fact, I hit a pot hole and cracked a windshield on the #2 setting running the high rate springs. The Konis are great with the higher coil over springs at 1/4 turn rear and none front.

Turboanka

I also have a '93 R1 and if I were you, I would take care of the 5th synchro as soon as you can. Had the same problem but with an addition of the 1st-2rd synchro as well. It was so bad last summer that before the synchro was replaced, a few weeks ago, it barely got into 5th and when it did it did it with this horrible grrrrrinding sound - I sure felt sorry for the gear box. This is a common problem with the '93, as far as I know. The best way to get into 5th was to shift clutchless. The synchros were in 2-3 pieces and if you leave it as is, even though they are held in place by the selector ring, the teeth are constantly being eroded and they generate lots of debris. So be weary before this nuisance screws up the shafts and gears. I was lucky nothing else was effected – but it still cost $1000.
I have the same dilemma regarding springs. Since a lot of you guys think that the H&R are a lower drop and stiffer ride, I’m thinking of going with the Eibach. I don’t want to the increase the rate much, if anything keep it close to stock. How is the handling with the Eibach Pro-kit? I’m concerned of loosing feedback.
Thanks for any input.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

The handling will be fine (better than stock springs). I had a LOT less roll once I got mine installed.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

I have koni yellow w/ eibach pro-kit. I'm not pleased. They don't seem stiff enough to keep the car off the bump-stops during hard cornering on the track, or over major undulations in the road, yet the ride is very harsh nonetheless?even full soft (which isn't really "softer" since its only a rebound adjustment)... sort of a worst of both worlds. I'm at a bit of a loss about where to go... i'm thinking higher rate (GC) setup to keep it off the stops... my guess is the "ride" is mostly the shocks

Turboanka

Mahjik, are you using the stock dampers?

ptrhahn: I am thinking that your problem is more of a damper issue than a spring one. Sounds like you have too much high speed damping, which would make for a stiff ride. Transient turn in should not be too bad though. Also, you may not have enough low speed damping, which is responsible for controlling body movement. A common problem is having too much rebound damping for the spring you use, with which the suspension packs itself down onto the bump stops. You know that this is the case if you end up on the bump stops after you are part way through a turn, but not immediately.
Also, it's really the anti-roll bars' duty to keep the car off the stops in steady state cornering. Mainly the damper handles this in the transients.
Having said that, it is strange that a damper with lots of high-speed damping would allow bump contact due to undulations in the road.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Yes.

matty

Hmm...i am about to buy the koni's...are they really this harsh? Currently, i am running eibach springs with 94 pep shocks and i still get tons of body roll which is my goal to eliminate. How are these cars handling with the koni's other than harsh over bumps? Do they eliminate body roll? I have the pettit front antisway bar that i am going to install this weekend but kind of figured that i need to upgrade the shocks too.
I have read other posts where peolple are selling their current shocks and going koni yellows. Am i about to make a mistake in buying these koni's.

dclin

iTrader: (4)

I've got H&Rs and Konis, and I think it's fine. Then again, I've never tried a different aftermarket shock so can't compare - but my current setup is liveable for my current use, fast street driving...

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

If you're not going to do coil overs, then from all the posts and web sites I read Bilsteins rule.
If you want softer springs, Racing Beat is only 7% stiffer and the front is higher than the rear so that should fix the rubbing problem.

If you have an R1, why did you change springs?

jpandes

DONT go with the Eibach's....

I have them and I am runnig only 17" wheels and my drivers side is Rubbing the fender and ******* up my paint big time! They didn't ride that low at first, over time the drivers side started to sag.

Go with the height adjustable coil overs IMO.

John

jpandes

KevinK2

jimlab,

most of the eibach prokits are progressive, but the FD's are linear. PFS used to sell special Eibach progressives, many liked them, but no more. They now sell H&R's, which are progressive (sleepR1/manny has them). The PFS H&R pic is a progressive set, and the 'linear' description is wrong. Per US H&R rep, normal initial rate then 25-28% stiffer.

Progressive in these cases is actually 2 stage.

Some Front/Rear linear rates:

Stock ,, 275/200
RB ,, 10% stiffer (many say much stiffer)
Eibach ,, 366/274
S.Tech ,, 400/280 ??
HKS ,, 435/313
M2 ,, 550/450 (new)

alwan16

the "pro-kits" are definitely not linear and i'm not just saying that because of the name.

they don't start reacting until the body has rolled quite a bit...that's when they eventually stiffen up. just ride in a car with linear rate springs (ie stock r1) and then switch to one with the eibachs taking the exact same turns and same driving...you'll definitely see a BIG difference.

3rdGenLuvr

Dont you think that ur wheel size and sidewall might have somethng to do w/ the ride being so harsh?

Nathan Kwok

I'm running only on Koni Yellows and stock springs, set to stock ride height on stock tires. I think the ride is actually pretty comfy, especially since I took care of a few rattles. You might want to look into some dynamat as well, you may not realize it but noise plays a large role in perceived "ride quality". I have the dampening curves for the Konis, GAB, R1, and stock shocks in an excel file, just email me at natek@ucla.edu if you want to see them. Although the Konis don't really adjust well for rebound, the setting is almost exactly matched to the stock rebound settings, and adjusting the compression a little past the softest setting can get the entire shock almost exactly like stock. Another strange thing is the R1 shocks actually have less rebound dampening and vastly more compression dampening, so in essence the Konis can be adjusted to mimic either stock R1 shocks or stock touring/base shocks. Although the stock springs aren't as bling bling (your 18" wheels will probably look weird with stock springs), I think they work pretty well with the Konis. Plus, they're nice and soft .

Donovan

Well I think the problem with the rough ride may have a lot more to do with having 18's and no cushion provided by the stock 255/50 tires. My 17 with 275/40s rear are a lot harder on the old *** than the stockers. Also I do not rub any body parts. I actually scrape the 99' air dam on the ground from time to time but no body contact. I have RB's linear springs that lower the car quite a bit and stock R2 susp.
Hey you want to sell me the diff. mounts from the set of bushings?

thatoneguy

There was a debate about the Eibachs a while back and someone actually measured the spring rates and found that the rates were linear. Most Pro-Kit springs are progressive, but the ones for the FD aren't.

BrianK

I have the eibachs on the stock struts (touring). I get rubbing in the front when I hit a pretty quick left (but I can turn lock to lock in the parking lot with no problem) - this is on the stock rims with P-Zeros. The RB springs make the car a bit more level if you're into looks - the Eibachs look like the back is raised slighty (when you compare the two).

GoRacer - all RX7s had the same springs, it was the strut that was different between the R1 and other models.

and I'll agree with everyone else that your stiff problem lies more with the konis that the springs. Everyone in the suspension forum seems to have hard ons for the TIEN coil overs - maybe a set of HAs are worth looking into.

vosko

iTrader: (4)

my FD has tokico illumina's and RB springs and RB F&R sway bars. when it runs i'll let you know how it handles