Ignition choice for 500hp?
03-22-12, 01:25 PM
#1
Ignition choice for 500hp?
I am currently piecing parts together for my future build on my car. My final intentions are 500hp. I am looking to purchase my ignition system next and I was looking into the hks twin power but i am reading that they cap out at the 500hp mark and I do not want to run it to its max. What would be the best choice for ignition systems for an end result of 500hp? All supporting mods will be done as well but i am just slowly piecing it all together! Thanks in advance!
03-22-12, 01:48 PM
#2
Doing the Ricky Bobby
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I am currently piecing parts together for my future build on my car. My final intentions are 500hp. I am looking to purchase my ignition system next and I was looking into the hks twin power but i am reading that they cap out at the 500hp mark and I do not want to run it to its max. What would be the best choice for ignition systems for an end result of 500hp? All supporting mods will be done as well but i am just slowly piecing it all together! Thanks in advance!
The next step up is a major one. M&W is what replaced the twinpower on my friends 700whp fd and that thing will ignite damn near anything. This converts the system from waste spark to a direct fire ignition setup. Expect to pay $1700 for ignition though... Gotta pay to play.
Many people try to use MSD ignitions but they are no that reliable and are a pretty ghetto way of getting it done. having multiple large boxes is not ideal. MSD finally came out with a digital system that might be ok, but hasn't really been tested out yet in the fd community.
03-22-12, 02:37 PM
#3
Ok perfect. I wanted to stick with the twin power as i know everyone runs it and it works. I am already running the power FC and going to stick with it. What are the best coils to go with? I have a second gen leading but I woudnt mind replacing them with a good aftermarket. Then the next step is sorting out my fuel set up
03-22-12, 05:26 PM
#6
The Twin Power is known for being the little box that could. However, your questions have incomplete back ground information. How are you achieving the 500hp?
With auxilary injection a stronger ignition is needed. Though some have reported of hitting the desired number with the Twin Power, it is likely at its limits when igniting an auxilary fuel mix. As mentioned, E85 is more flexible on the ignition. You just have to find a pump.
I am shooting for 460-500hp with pre-turbo WI within the next 6 months. I will be using a Twin Power, stock coils, and NGK race plugs..... we shall see.
With auxilary injection a stronger ignition is needed. Though some have reported of hitting the desired number with the Twin Power, it is likely at its limits when igniting an auxilary fuel mix. As mentioned, E85 is more flexible on the ignition. You just have to find a pump.
I am shooting for 460-500hp with pre-turbo WI within the next 6 months. I will be using a Twin Power, stock coils, and NGK race plugs..... we shall see.
03-22-12, 08:23 PM
#7
silver ghost
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The Twin Power is known for being the little box that could. However, your questions have incomplete back ground information. How are you achieving the 500hp?
With auxilary injection a stronger ignition is needed. Though some have reported of hitting the desired number with the Twin Power, it is likely at its limits when igniting an auxilary fuel mix. As mentioned, E85 is more flexible on the ignition. You just have to find a pump.
I am shooting for 460-500hp with pre-turbo WI within the next 6 months. I will be using a Twin Power, stock coils, and NGK race plugs..... we shall see.
With auxilary injection a stronger ignition is needed. Though some have reported of hitting the desired number with the Twin Power, it is likely at its limits when igniting an auxilary fuel mix. As mentioned, E85 is more flexible on the ignition. You just have to find a pump.
I am shooting for 460-500hp with pre-turbo WI within the next 6 months. I will be using a Twin Power, stock coils, and NGK race plugs..... we shall see.
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03-23-12, 07:23 AM
#8
I know Brent from Wannaspeed was running the same setup with NGK Race 10.5's, 500cc of water, and made over 500whp with no break-up.
The key here is how much AI you want to run. You can LACE an engine with the mixture and tune for it as long as the ignition will ignite it. There is more of a grey area of how much water, meth or both you need to make power after the safety margin is passed. Some use more, some use a little less. I know Goodfella is making high 400's on 20psi with a mere 300cc of 50/50.
03-23-12, 07:20 PM
#14
Ya i actually have the second gen leading coil. If it is possible to hit 500hp on WMI as well as the twin power Ill totally look into getting the twin power. seems enough people are hitting the numbers I want on it. I will most likely upgrade the coils too just to be sure. So now that is settled its time to start hunting for a good WM kit 
03-24-12, 10:27 AM
#15
I'm actually just about to post a thread showing how simple the IGN-1A coils are to install. I sold my twin power, magnacore wires, and rear toe arm bushing I had left over for the same cost of everything other than materials to fab a mounting bracket to install these coils. This is with an awesome quality harness that only requires the hook up of 4 ignitor wires then just power and ground. I ran into ignition break up on the dyno with just water at 17psi. I had the HKS TP with 8.5 magnacore wires and 10.5 NGK race plugs. I was fine with washer fluid but only want to run water so decided to upgrade once I realized I could sell my stuff used for enough to buy new.
03-24-12, 11:13 AM
#16
Wastegate John
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^ That's exactly what I did however I am using a Haltech. It made more sense to me to sell my new twin power and buy 4 coils and still have money left over. Especially if you factor in the cost of saving a TON of money by not having to buy new factory coils. I have yet to get my car running but time will tell how good these coils are.
The IGN-1A coils are rebadged mercury marine coils, IMHO they must be good if they are trusted to be used in an outboard engine.
I purchased my coils from Chris. He is C. ludwig on the forum, here is his website http://www.lms-efi.com/ he is a great guy and provides excellent customer service even after the sale.
John
The IGN-1A coils are rebadged mercury marine coils, IMHO they must be good if they are trusted to be used in an outboard engine.
I purchased my coils from Chris. He is C. ludwig on the forum, here is his website http://www.lms-efi.com/ he is a great guy and provides excellent customer service even after the sale.
John
03-24-12, 01:48 PM
#18
I'm actually just about to post a thread showing how simple the IGN-1A coils are to install. I sold my twin power, magnacore wires, and rear toe arm bushing I had left over for the same cost of everything other than materials to fab a mounting bracket to install these coils. This is with an awesome quality harness that only requires the hook up of 4 ignitor wires then just power and ground. I ran into ignition break up on the dyno with just water at 17psi. I had the HKS TP with 8.5 magnacore wires and 10.5 NGK race plugs. I was fine with washer fluid but only want to run water so decided to upgrade once I realized I could sell my stuff used for enough to buy new.
03-24-12, 05:28 PM
#20
F'n Newbie...
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(New) stock FD or FC primary coils, coupled with a twin power, should be capable of supporting those levels.
I initially had breakup at higher RPMs on my last build. But once I replaced my old (potentially original) coil with a new one from Malloy I had no problems getting up to 470whp. I stopped there but see no reason why that ignition won't work for more.. And that was with me running an aquamist kit.
I initially had breakup at higher RPMs on my last build. But once I replaced my old (potentially original) coil with a new one from Malloy I had no problems getting up to 470whp. I stopped there but see no reason why that ignition won't work for more.. And that was with me running an aquamist kit.
03-25-12, 09:03 AM
#22
We have found that the OEM coils are fine for well over 600hp.
HKS Twin Power, Magnecor 10mm and NGK race plugs (to prevent housing cracks). There is really no need for an elaborate coil setup especially when using the PFC. With a Microtech or Haltech that has individual coil drivers it is more feasible, but still not a requirement at the posted power levels. We have customers running upwards of 26psi on the stock coils without any igntion breakup. I would suggest cleaning up the tune, what some people think is breakup is most likely an overly rich condition or detonation from too much advance.
Even on my 20B with the LT16 & X6, I still run the HKS universal Twin Power, NGK race 10.5's, Magnecore 10mm and 6 OEM trailing coils.
HKS Twin Power, Magnecor 10mm and NGK race plugs (to prevent housing cracks). There is really no need for an elaborate coil setup especially when using the PFC. With a Microtech or Haltech that has individual coil drivers it is more feasible, but still not a requirement at the posted power levels. We have customers running upwards of 26psi on the stock coils without any igntion breakup. I would suggest cleaning up the tune, what some people think is breakup is most likely an overly rich condition or detonation from too much advance.
Even on my 20B with the LT16 & X6, I still run the HKS universal Twin Power, NGK race 10.5's, Magnecore 10mm and 6 OEM trailing coils.
03-25-12, 10:31 AM
#23
Wastegate John
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^ I think one major advantage of the IGN-1A coils are that they are cheaper NEW than a USED twin power. If your coils are going bad then you need to buy 3 new coils or used low mileage coils which are 171.00 EACH from mazdatrix.
So purchasing 4 AEM coils totals to about 290.00 for all FOUR coils.
Going the twin power way, it would cost approximately $833.00 ( 171.00*3 + 320.00) for arguably less gain.
I just think this a good alternative for someone looking to upgrade their ignition and who is willing to spend some time to make it work.
So purchasing 4 AEM coils totals to about 290.00 for all FOUR coils.
Going the twin power way, it would cost approximately $833.00 ( 171.00*3 + 320.00) for arguably less gain.
I just think this a good alternative for someone looking to upgrade their ignition and who is willing to spend some time to make it work.
03-25-12, 04:29 PM
#24
You are correct it is arguable. The PFC only have 3 ingition output signals so wiring in four coils is by far not a drop in. Not to mention I have yet to see any real data that says these coils perform better than a proven HKS/OEM setup.
We have used the AEM "dumb" coils to replace the Bosch units that some people have purchased with their Microtechs, even with these we have wired in a HKS Twin Power. We have had seen good results with cars over 400whp.
Edit: Additionally, in all my years of working on FDs, I have never had a car come into my shop that has required a full new set of FD OEM coils. I have seen a super corroded leading that needed replacement and few melted trailings caused by people messing with their wiring. I also do not ever used Mazdatrix as a price guide, Malloy is always less expensive.
We have used the AEM "dumb" coils to replace the Bosch units that some people have purchased with their Microtechs, even with these we have wired in a HKS Twin Power. We have had seen good results with cars over 400whp.
Edit: Additionally, in all my years of working on FDs, I have never had a car come into my shop that has required a full new set of FD OEM coils. I have seen a super corroded leading that needed replacement and few melted trailings caused by people messing with their wiring. I also do not ever used Mazdatrix as a price guide, Malloy is always less expensive.
Last edited by Banzai-Racing; 03-25-12 at 04:46 PM.
