rotorbrain

the garfinkle brace isnt a solid mount. it has rubber inserts at the ends of the link. it is in a rubberized suspension.

flyebye, i figured your car wasnt a daily driver. . . well, i was hoping so since youll have solid mounts. yowza!!! your setup is fine, of course, for your situation, but as phil stated. . . this is a streetcar in my application. i like to DRIVE my car. . . i like to be somewhat comfortable in it. there is THE reason for a good ETB.

paul

jimlab

God, that hurt. Of all the people on this forum, I so wanted to retain your respect...

Are you? Evidently, I wasn't talking about you. I said that I wondered how many people actually checked the status of their motor mounts before installing a torque brace. If that doesn't apply to you, then I wasn't talking about you, was I? Are you paying attention?

No, my candor gave people something to talk about... and apparently ruffled a few feathers, as the truth usually does.

Perhaps you'd care to explain what that has to do with the current discussion? Oh, sorry, my mistake. Weak attempt at a personal insult noted and dismissed...

And no buyer ever bought anything they didn't really need... is that your point? Or was it that no one has ever sold anything that provided nothing more than a perceived benefit? Wow, the engine stopped shaking after you installed a rigid brace at the top... shouldn't the point have been to find out why it was shaking in the first place? After all, these rotary engines run so smoooothly... anyone will tell you so...

Make whatever excuses you feel necessary.

Well, he certainly sounds like a wonderful candidate for Sainthood. Keep your fingers crossed.

Actually, if I have made "blind slander" against anyone, it is any manufacturer of torque braces, or perhaps it was against those who install them without checking the condition of their motor mounts first, and after all, what's a little blind slander between friends?

No, you're just babbling. Uncontrollably.

Once again, ouch.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Where is this week point?? are you refering to Garfinkle's brace.. I would like to know..

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

I would also like to point out that Garfinkle is a great man.. very helpful and his explaination on things acturally make sense..

Flybye

I could have told you that
Yes the main purpose of stock motor mounts, other than holding the engine to the car , is absorbing as much vibration as possible for the yuppies I've been in a 500hp stang with solid mounts. With all the horror stories I have heard, it was no where NEAR as bad as people made it out to be. More vibration, sure, but nothing I would loose my nerves over. The car felt like one solid piece of machinery.

One nice example is Jim's bushings. I remember some people's biggest fear was "Will it make the car vibrate more? "

It's just a matter of preferance I suppose. I know people where their BIGGEST concern is vibration. There is no such thing as a Forumla 1 car taking a 5g turn while feeling like your *** is riding on a Rolls Royce. Everyone has their limits, and vibration is not one of mine

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

True.. but friends wouldn't make blind slanders at each other to start with..

rotorbrain

once again, you point out how "above us all" you are, jim. that last post was nothing but blabber. . . and you even commented about mine being uncontrollable. hmm. all i did was make points. yours has no basis. tell us whats wrong with the stock mounts if you know. . . and you speak as though you do. why is it that a man came from out of state with 6k (or something) old motor and mounts. installed the brace and said, "wow, i wish i had gotten it sooner." is there a reason for that? did mazda sell him a bad set of mounts? no, all we have been stating is that the stock mounts could use a little help and this garfinkle brace is the cheapest, easiest, and definately most comfortable fix you can buy. is my point clear to you? oh please let it be lord of all that is knowledge!!!! i hate to disappoint you with my rudeness oh king of the mountain. i will now drop to one knee and begin cleansing your feet for i have been a bad, bad person in labrecks kingdom.

paul

Flybye

If you're comparing a metal bar against rubber mounts, what do YOU think is the weak point?

rotorbrain

the garfinkle brace is suspended in rubber, flyebye.

paul

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Maybe you told me this.. I don't know.. I guess I should start calling myself yuppy.. since i don't want vibration and clunking noise..

Do most 7 owners what vibration and clunking noise??

jimlab

Since you're the second one to bring that up, I'll ask again... What does that have to do with whether or not a torque brace should be installed before checking the condition of the motor mounts?

Actually, since it's in print it would be considered libel, not slander, and only if I were making statements trying to damage "Garfinkle's" reputation... which I'm not.

Jesus, I love all the armchair lawyers on this forum... people trying to be too smart for their own good. "Blind slander"? What the **** is blind slander?!? Some **** Paul made up while his mouth was running faster than his brain, evidently...

rotorbrain

i know i dont. . . im even thinking about getting rid of my hks hyper carbon/ti catback cause of that.

paul

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Flybye.. I'm not trying to dis respect you.. but have you seen Garfinkles brace in person?? Is this something against, Garfinkle or just torque braces in general?? or your Loyalty toward Jimlab??

I still don't see why its such a bad thing to have this brace?? pointing out weak points and such.. Sure, Rubber isn't as strong as metal.. But also absorbes shock.. If it was solid metal to the fender, I would be more concerned..

So, let me put it this way..

You guys are all knowledgeable in this field.. And i know you wouldn't put a torque brace on your car..

BUT! if you did decide to put one on, which one would you get??
And why??

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Jim,

I respect your opinions.. And I understand your frustration..

So, in your opinion, if you had to suggest which torque brace to get, which one would you recommend.. I know you say get the engine mount.. but if they have a good mount and all, which of few torque braces out there in your opinion is superior than others.. And why??

I'm asking you this, because, Ultimately, there are people respect your thoughts.. and might disagree with you in some.. In this case, I just want to know "IF".. you had to make a recommendation..

Flybye

I'm telling ya, it's not as bad as you think.

You guys almost make it sound as if shifting a solid mounted drivetrain will feel as if someone is hitting you in the head with a sledge hammer, and the vibration will feel like someone stuck you in a paint mixing machine.

It doesn't feel like a kart where the ENTIRE thing is solid. Solid suspension, solid mounts, solid steering, etc. It's not like that at all. I mean, I don't expect you to take my word for it, either. But try driving a car with solid mounts. Granted, if you use it as a daily driver, and are constantly stuck in traffic, then I can see it as possibly hurting ride comfortability just a bit. But it still isn't as bad as people make it out to be. If you have the engine bridgeported and idling at 1500rpm, going brrrrrrrrrrap........brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrap........... ..brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrapm, then yes, I can see some ride qualitly possibly being affected

You guys should try it, and let us know how it felt to you. Try to get in a tuned car with solid mounts. Tuned as in, I don't expect you to get in a solid mounted engine car with the damn idling going haywire! I'm just sharing my experience with it, and my experience was not turned away from it at all. To be honest, I was actually amazed at how smooth that 500hp stang felt with the solid mounts. I expected to feel more vibration but I didn't. It was my friends car, and I was in it a good number of times.

I can only think that perhaps the suspension and tires help absorb some of the vibration.

rotorbrain

you make a valid point about the suspension flyebye. didnt think about it. im sure it is amazing. you should let me ride in your car.

paul

DCrosby

Rubber mounts = weak, and cheap, Metal mounts, Harsh and rough on the entire car (vibration)


These are Polyurathane, and are
1) more resistant to heat
2) absorb more vibration than solid mounts
3) don't tear or wear out within 60K like the stocker do.

I won't say how long they'll last as I have had them for 1K mi @ this point (Jan 2004) and I can't tell you that they're 5000% better, but I built them for myself since I saw the fault of the stockers, and they are harsher @ 800-1500 rpm than stock, and I would immagine better than solids, but after that the only difference is stability, the engine feels like it's glued to the car, as good as the brace I had on my '94 if not a heck of a lot better.

Since even if your stockers are'nt busted yet, they're worn after 10k and don't hold the motor as solidly.

This mod is not for people who love the stock suspension, and would never think about changeing it since they like the feel of the 7, just the way it is... this is a mod for those that want a racecar that they can drive on the street....

-DC

Flybye

No

I have nothing against torque braces or Garfinkle.

My question is simply "Why add something else to the car, when you can easily replace a stock component with a part that will do the same job just as good or better as the added component. No where have I said anything degrading about the engine brace. I just simply stated that the solid mounts do the same job, and at the same time, you replace the stock mounts with a much higher quality piece which will never wear out like the stock ones.

Jeesh! You make it sound like he's my bed buddy!
Jimlab's argument is "You guys are using it as a band aid"

Mine is "I think I can replace something else which can do the same job as the engine brace and not bother having the engine brace"


I was talking about the stock motor mounts...which are filled with goo...and are probably not as rigid as the rubber bushings the engine brace comes with. Their job....to ensure your butt doesn't feel vibration.

I don't think it's a bad thing to have the engine brace. I just think..... I can replace something else which can do the same job as the engine brace and not bother having the engine brace.

With solid motor mounts, the tranny brace, and Jimbo's diff Nylon bushings............I wouldn't need an engine brace

See my point yet? I hope so cuz my fingers are starting to hurt
I'll have something ELSE on the car eliminating the need for the engine brace.

rotorbrain

thankyou flybye, for making an arguement that makes sense. no more of this "im saying so" junk. you raise a valid point. . . the only thing i can point out is that davids had his brace on for SEVERAL miles. . . ill ask him how long hes had it on there tomorrow. if i were making a 500+ hp car then id have more solid mounts. my car isnt gonna do that with my lowly to4e. . . haha. maybe later, after i rebuild my engine and upgrade to a larger turbo.

kudos, flybye. . . thanks for making the thread worthwhile again.

paul

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Flybye,

I know your point.. Like I said before.. I appreciate your opinion and experience.. but like I asked before, I would like to know, if you had to choose, One torque brace vs. other, which one would you choose.

jimlab

Probably Garfinkle's brace, believe it or not. Contrary to what Paul thinks, I do respect the attention to detail and the quality I see in the work that David does.

You can pick whichever damper style (shock, spring, bushing) you like the most (although I think the springs and shocks are a waste of time and money), but the size of the bracket which attaches to the fender support is probably the most important aspect, in my opinion. It should be large enough to spread the load over the greatest possible surface area. Hopefully, that will help keep the sheet metal from fatiguing over time, if at all.

The bracket in David's kit seems to be one of the best constructed and largest. And that's all I have to say about that...

jimlab

Apparently he hasn't seen any of the threads where I've given you grief...

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Jim,

I'm very glad to hear that.. especially coming from you.. I now feel like at least I bought the best brace out there..
I agree with you about the mounting brackets.. Garfinkles have the largest surface area and mounting bolts than anyone else's..

Maybe when I get my engine rebuilt, I'll put some polyurethane or solid mount.. I'm at it, can I ask you what your urethane bushings cost??

Flybye

I haven't researched them so I don't know who's got what, but.......

I'd pick a solid piece like Garfinkle's. The solid ones will completly prevent any roll from the engine. The shock types would simply act like a long bushing. IMO, the purpose of a torque brace is to prevent engine roll....not act like a 3rd stock motor mount.

$150FC

jim, is everybody at microsoft like you?