how's this for cold air??
01-29-05, 07:52 PM
#101
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Originally Posted by LT1-7
For water to be sucked into the duct and into the turbo, a couple of things have to happen. He'd have to run WOT at high speeds and submerge the whole front end of his car into water. Rain drops and splashes of water is not going to make its way up that pipe and into the turbo. You haven't even seen the whole system yet so to make guesses at it just annoys the hell out of me. Take a vacuum for example. Submerge the hose in a tank of water. It will suck up water, that's a given. Now take that same hose and only expose water to a quarter of the hose. You'll see water doesn't want to go up that hose because there's not enough force pushing it up. Now my point is water will more thank likely puddle up in the box I made on rainy days. But it takes some triple digit speeds as well as some high vacuum to suck water up there. And if it is raining, I boubt Dean's going to be hot rodding his car on flooded streets. So no, this system probably wouldn't be the best for say your daily driven honda accord but we're not talking about the same cars in the same situations here are we?
-Alex
01-29-05, 08:13 PM
#102
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Originally Posted by LT1-7
For water to be sucked into the duct and into the turbo, a couple of things have to happen. He'd have to run WOT at high speeds and submerge the whole front end of his car into water. Rain drops and splashes of water is not going to make its way up that pipe and into the turbo. You haven't even seen the whole system yet so to make guesses at it just annoys the hell out of me. Take a vacuum for example. Submerge the hose in a tank of water. It will suck up water, that's a given. Now take that same hose and only expose water to a quarter of the hose. You'll see water doesn't want to go up that hose because there's not enough force pushing it up. Now my point is water will more thank likely puddle up in the box I made on rainy days. But it takes some triple digit speeds as well as some high vacuum to suck water up there. And if it is raining, I boubt Dean's going to be hot rodding his car on flooded streets. So no, this system probably wouldn't be the best for say your daily driven honda accord but we're not talking about the same cars in the same situations here are we?
Was that towards me or in general?
01-29-05, 08:58 PM
#103
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Originally Posted by iluvmy3rdgen
Was that towards me or in general?
No, it wasn't towards you. You just happen to post right before me and just seemed like it was directed to you.
01-29-05, 10:42 PM
#104
Originally Posted by iluvmy3rdgen
If you think that the heat from the road is a concern I think you should reconsider that.
I thought the same thing but on a nice hot summer day have someone drive a car and stick your hand out the window going about 55 or higher and try and reach as close to the ground as possible. Although the heat radiating off the ground is hot at a stand still, moving it will still cool your hand down. Relative to the air temps in the engine compartment of a rotary or even piston engine even, I would say it's safe to call that cold air.
Last edited by t-von; 01-29-05 at 10:46 PM.
01-29-05, 11:17 PM
#105
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Originally Posted by t-von
No I don't think that the heat is a concern. I'm just saying that the intake will still pull hotter air in that location.
Like I said before, just because the air feels cooler while it's moving doesn't mean that it is. A thermostat will tell you this. Thats where all the confusion comes from. The fast moving air will only cool down the surface areas that the air passed over because it removes the heat. This is completely differant than a car moving over hot air. If the air is 120 degrees and is continualy passing over a surface, guess what the surface will be the same tempurature as the air. The cooler the air get the cooler that surface will be. Thats why heat guns heat up things.
Like I said before, just because the air feels cooler while it's moving doesn't mean that it is. A thermostat will tell you this. Thats where all the confusion comes from. The fast moving air will only cool down the surface areas that the air passed over because it removes the heat. This is completely differant than a car moving over hot air. If the air is 120 degrees and is continualy passing over a surface, guess what the surface will be the same tempurature as the air. The cooler the air get the cooler that surface will be. Thats why heat guns heat up things.
01-29-05, 11:44 PM
#107
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Originally Posted by SDRacer87
very nice setup there. it looks jdm.
-Alex
01-30-05, 12:08 AM
#109
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by TT_Rex_7
Am I missing something here?! Why does everything keep saying it looks JDM?! Theres nothing JDM about it.
01-30-05, 05:53 AM
#111
Originally Posted by jimlab
I believe they're referring to the Japanese tuners who seem to prefer to fabricate their own bends out of several short segments of pipe as opposed to using a nice mandrel bend instead...
01-30-05, 12:06 PM
#112
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by Kevin T. Wyum
Those nifty formerly-straight-tube bends are where JDM meets Fairground circle track racing.
01-30-05, 12:49 PM
#114
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by bcty
lets see some before and after numbers from it
i have mine in the same place (2nd gen) and have seen -7C at points
always colder then outside air
i have mine in the same place (2nd gen) and have seen -7C at points
always colder then outside air
There's no way you're seeing that much difference between ambient air temperature and the temperature at the intake duct. A "cold air" intake does not magically produce air colder than ambient. It simply ingests air cooler than that found under the hood, which is where the term "cold air" came from.
Maybe you should specify where your sensor(s) were located and what ambient air temperature was at the time. Even after the intercooler, your intake air temperature will never be colder than ambient unless you've got an air-to-water IC fed by a tank full of ice water.
01-30-05, 04:30 PM
#115
Originally Posted by LT1-7
For water to be sucked into the duct and into the turbo, a couple of things have to happen. He'd have to run WOT at high speeds and submerge the whole front end of his car into water. Rain drops and splashes of water is not going to make its way up that pipe and into the turbo. You haven't even seen the whole system yet so to make guesses at it just annoys the hell out of me.
I was only left to speculate because you never answered my question. I asked you a long time ago if the pipe was connected to the duct itself or if the duck just directed the airflow towards the intake pipe? You never answered that question.
Last edited by t-von; 01-30-05 at 04:55 PM.
01-30-05, 04:40 PM
#116
Originally Posted by LT1-7
Take a vacuum for example. Submerge the hose in a tank of water. It will suck up water, that's a given. Now take that same hose and only expose water to a quarter of the hose. You'll see water doesn't want to go up that hose because there's not enough force pushing it up. Now my point is water will more thank likely puddle up in the box I made on rainy days. But it takes some triple digit speeds as well as some high vacuum to suck water up there. And if it is raining, I boubt Dean's going to be hot rodding his car on flooded streets. So no, this system probably wouldn't be the best for say your daily driven honda accord but we're not talking about the same cars in the same situations here are we?
Your not taking into account that a vacuum hose isn't moving forward like a car is through water. With a car moving forward, the water will rise higher making it easier to fill that duct. If the water level reaches the top of that duck, you could very well suck up water WOT or not. The engine creates more vacuum than any vacuum cleaner on the market. Your duck has a Ram-Air effect for air. It can also have a Ram-Air effect for the water that actually rises above the front lip.
01-30-05, 04:45 PM
#117
Originally Posted by jimlab
Maybe -7°C colder than outside air temperature in Florida...
There's no way you're seeing that much difference between ambient air temperature and the temperature at the intake duct. A "cold air" intake does not magically produce air colder than ambient. It simply ingests air cooler than that found under the hood, which is where the term "cold air" came from.
There's no way you're seeing that much difference between ambient air temperature and the temperature at the intake duct. A "cold air" intake does not magically produce air colder than ambient. It simply ingests air cooler than that found under the hood, which is where the term "cold air" came from.
Even Jim understands my point.
Sometimes the "Cold Air" isn't necessarily cold either.
Last edited by t-von; 01-30-05 at 05:04 PM.
01-30-05, 05:17 PM
#118
All in all whatever the ambient temps are is what the air temp will be. If air passes over a hot suface, it will heat up to the temp of that surface. If the sun is constantly shinning on the asphalt, no amount of wind is going to remove enough heat to cool the asphalt down because the sun is constantly reheating the surface up again.
01-30-05, 06:04 PM
#119
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by t-von
Sometimes the "Cold Air" isn't necessarily cold either.
Like I said, there's no reason not to pull air from the front bumper if you're able to. Even if the temperature of the air above the pavement is 120 degrees, it's sure as **** going to be a lot hotter under the hood.
01-31-05, 01:07 AM
#120
Originally Posted by jimlab
It will always be cooler than the air under the hood around the engine, and a 10 degree decrease in intake air temperature is worth about a 1% increase in power.
Like I said, there's no reason not to pull air from the front bumper if you're able to. Even if the temperature of the air above the pavement is 120 degrees, it's sure as **** going to be a lot hotter under the hood.
Like I said, there's no reason not to pull air from the front bumper if you're able to. Even if the temperature of the air above the pavement is 120 degrees, it's sure as **** going to be a lot hotter under the hood.
Understood!
01-31-05, 05:58 AM
#122
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Originally Posted by Speedworks
John, how do you feel about me building this in CF?
Go for it my friend. I built this as a favor for Dean and never plan on going into production. If you could produce something like this in cf, more power to you
01-31-05, 07:51 AM
#123
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Just wondering..
Is all this CAI stuff really really really , make that much of a differnce??
With our Turbo charged cars.. the Air still gonna hit the SUPER HOT TURBO,
which wil probably heat the AIR to a certain TEMP regardless of the CAI.
And then to the INTERCOOLER, Which IMO is the most important part of the chain.
Would be interesting to see someone with Temp PROBES that can actually measure
the Before IC TEMPS using Fancy CAI and intake in the engine bay.
Is all this CAI stuff really really really , make that much of a differnce??
With our Turbo charged cars.. the Air still gonna hit the SUPER HOT TURBO,
which wil probably heat the AIR to a certain TEMP regardless of the CAI.
And then to the INTERCOOLER, Which IMO is the most important part of the chain.
Would be interesting to see someone with Temp PROBES that can actually measure
the Before IC TEMPS using Fancy CAI and intake in the engine bay.
01-31-05, 10:28 AM
#124
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by SlingShotRX7
Just wondering..
Is all this CAI stuff really really really , make that much of a differnce??
With our Turbo charged cars.. the Air still gonna hit the SUPER HOT TURBO,
which wil probably heat the AIR to a certain TEMP regardless of the CAI.
Is all this CAI stuff really really really , make that much of a differnce??
With our Turbo charged cars.. the Air still gonna hit the SUPER HOT TURBO,
which wil probably heat the AIR to a certain TEMP regardless of the CAI.
If it didn't make a difference, why do turbo drag cars have inlets in the front bumper or hood for their turbos and some even mount the turbo itself in the front bumper? Because you use every little advantage you can to make more power.
The late Steve Grebeck's record setting Mustang
01-31-05, 01:47 PM
#125
Originally Posted by SlingShotRX7
Just wondering..
Is all this CAI stuff really really really , make that much of a differnce??
With our Turbo charged cars.. the Air still gonna hit the SUPER HOT TURBO,
which wil probably heat the AIR to a certain TEMP regardless of the CAI.
And then to the INTERCOOLER, Which IMO is the most important part of the chain.
Would be interesting to see someone with Temp PROBES that can actually measure
the Before IC TEMPS using Fancy CAI and intake in the engine bay.
Is all this CAI stuff really really really , make that much of a differnce??
With our Turbo charged cars.. the Air still gonna hit the SUPER HOT TURBO,
which wil probably heat the AIR to a certain TEMP regardless of the CAI.
And then to the INTERCOOLER, Which IMO is the most important part of the chain.
Would be interesting to see someone with Temp PROBES that can actually measure
the Before IC TEMPS using Fancy CAI and intake in the engine bay.
And the idea that it isn't worth any effort to get cool air for the turbo because the IC will cool the air back down anyway is complete nonsense. It is worth it to get cool intake air if you can do it.
If you want to play with some numbers for compressor input temps and pressures (i.e. vacuum -- got a restrictive intake?) and the effects on the compressor outlet temps, I posted a spreadsheet in the thread below. If you are intested in turbo performance in a serious way, it is very worth the time to figure out what the inputs mean and what the calculations are.
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/temperature-intake-air-285228/
-Max
Last edited by maxcooper; 01-31-05 at 01:49 PM.