Compilez

iTrader: (3)

Nice work. Looks like time was put into it.

TT_Rex_7

Thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard, think about it man, any oncoming air is going to cool down the heat thats coming off of the asphalt dramatically so it wont make a damn bit of diffrence. If all that turbo is going to suck up is hot air from the asphalt then only hot air would be passing through a front mount because its just as low. Example: Alot of cars that have an AEM CAI are that low to the ground and I'm sure AEM ran many tests to where they've located their CAI's and I'm sure they dont suck up hot air. I don't give a **** where you live, its not going to suck up 120-130 degree air from the asphalt, theres so much oncoming air rushing through the front of your car it will probably just flow that heat from the asphalt right under the car. Even IF it did, the air would still be cooler then if he left a filter in the engine bay so it would STILL be better!! Also, Kevin Wyum runs his filters close to the same area and I'm sure he could chime in to assure hes not sucking up hot air because I dont think he would have went through the trouble of running those pipes like he did if thats all it was going to do.

-Alex

TT_Rex_7

Although its possible to suck up water from where he put the duct, as long as theres a hole somewhere that it can drain in the duct then it will probably just drain out. Water finds the easiest path to travel, and going up isnt the easiest. It would have to miss the drain hole, travel up, and then go through 3 filters!! Thats definitly not the easiest path for it to travel. Although it is possible because this has happened with CAI, just not likely.

-Alex

ijneb

I dont see what there is to argue about this setup. Some water isnt going to kill the motor, and I'd rather have the 120 degree air being sucked into my turbo than the 180+ degree air coming from my radiator. I dont think huge puddles will be a problem either, because how many of you drive these cars in the rain?

And about the lowest place to pull cool air, where else would you like him to do it- thru the hood? These cars dont have very many openings to choose from.

jeremyb

I'd write like 2 paragraphs about the whole "heat from asphalt on a summer day blah blah" but I'm lazy sooooo

... sup ben

Jeremy

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Really? Show me any manufacturer that has ever put a cold air intake that low on any high perfromance car.


So then tell me how how fast the wind would need to blow to cool down the asphalt dramatically? A little breez isn't going to cut it. This is completely differant than a car moving through air. You fail to understand that the air will be the same temperature whether it's moving or stationary. It just feels cooler when it moving.

Ahhh yes it can and will.


You mean being forced through. Also your not going to be very convincing by using the word "probably".


I'm not saying that this isn't an improvment. That location does have some advantages. For one the air is less restricted and at speed will be forced through "Ram-Air effect". IMHO it's just a bad location. Also think about the brake rotors. The air flow has been cut dramatically to the rotors. He will eventually have warping problems.

And your point? As I said before, LT1-7 picked the lowest place to pull in cold air which is not the best place. However it's the most convient spot to do so. Ask Kevin if he had a chance to engineer the perfect set-up. I bet you he would choose a higher location. Also I'm am aware that not everyone is going to go through all the trouble and expense just to engineer the perfect cold air set-up. By perfect, I mean something fully functional and doesn't hinder the other performance aspects of a vehicle.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

I understand your point about the path of least resistance. You have to realized how fast a turbo is able to suck in air or water. A hell of alot faster than any vacuum cleaner. You know what? Pretty much any vacuum cleaner is capable of sucking up water. A turbo will do the same and at a much higher rate. Simply having a hole isn't going to drain fast enough. Besides, I'm not talking rain drops. Anyways LT1-7 never mentioned if the pipe was actually connected to the duct. That will make the biggest differant when it comes to the rain and flooded areas.

Crash Test Joey

iTrader: (1)

I think some folks are a little too worried about this. The level of protection an air filter provides is being underestimated. Take for example my air cleaner, which is a K&N Extream. I do what I can to avoid rain, but it's been caught once or twice - in downpours that were pretty bad. No harm has come to the motor from the rain - and that was with it coming straight on, as close to being poured on the filter as it's going to get. I realize it's not a turbo but the point is the same - a quality filter does a lot more than keep out dirt.




If you drive so fast in the rain that a filter (or 3) won't stop rain from traveling into that turbo (enough to do damage) remind me not to be anywhere near you when you're behind the wheel. I think it's going to turn out fine.

SkylarNeedsParts

[QUOTE=If you drive so fast in the rain that a filter (or 3) won't stop rain from traveling into that turbo (enough to do damage) remind me not to be anywhere near you when you're behind the wheel. I think it's going to turn out fine.[/QUOTE]

agreed....all that stuff you are saying about a turbo sucking at high power...is well...dumb..whos going to be giving enough gas in a rainstorm to really spool their turbo up? if they are then refer to top

Kevin T. Wyum

The primary point to mine was that the opening I used, the former combo lights, is the forward most part of the car, so the least disrupted fresh airflow. I do actually have one significant downside to my location, I have some heat from the oil coolers radiating upward, something that will have to be resolved by heat shields on top of the oil coolers. We used the same location as LT1 for Kevin Tan's blue RX7 years back, I think he had a Knight sports front clip, and it seemed to work pretty well.

There is merit to the asphalt heat issue but your options are really limited and to be honest most of my racing was done in the dark, where it's not an issue. As someone else also mentioned regardless it's a vast improvement over a filter stuck on the end of the turbo.

Kevin T. Wyum

TT_Rex_7

It doesnt matter if they tested it that low on an Rx7 or a damn Civic, it'd either suck up hot air or cold air. Whether they tested it on a performance car or not is irrelevant. Many cars have CAI as low as Johns duct. One example is on my 240, I have an Injen with CAI extension, and its just as low. I've seen an AEM CAI on a Cavalier and it was just as low and i've also seen one an a Civic and guess what, it was just as low!


It will change the temp. dramatically by constintly changing the air by introducing new. It won't change the temp. of the air that was there until its introduced by cooler air, but by bringing new air in that specific location the temp. there will be diffrent. All it will take is a little breeze to move the air to a diffrent location. By that simply happining the air will never be right above the asphalt long enough to heat it up to over 100 degree's. Now I will say that sometimes there really isn't a breeze and you can actually see the heat coming off the asphalt, in that situation I would see a problem while sitting in traffic or stop light, but in those situations it wouldnt matter how high up on your car the duct was it'd still suck in hot air, unless it was on top of your hood like the picture posted above. Your theory about it only feeling cooler is really only true when new air isnt being introduced. For instance shut the door of your room and let the temp. get up to 100 degrees. When you turn on the fan all its going to do is blow around 100 degree air. Open up your door and let it bring in new air. It will lower the temps in your room.



No it wont!

Now that is correct, being "forced through." Probably may not have sounded so convincing but hopefully I've provided enough information this time. I can't state for sure whether or not any hot air from the asphalt will be forced underneath the car but I'm fairly confidant. If all this air is being forced through your car then more then likley it's either all going to mix together and change the temperature, or it will stay in its current location and pass under the car, while the cooler air above it will go through the openings of your front bumper, and the air above that will pass over your car.

The only way those rotors are going to be effected is if you do some serious time at the track. Normally an oil cooler would be there so the air would be hot once it reached the rotors so it wouldn't make a bit of diffrence. If the rotors warping are of concern then get a lower lip and use the brake ducts. Besides your wheels will be bringing in gobs of air so any air that will go through that oil cooler duct and make it to the wheel well would never make it to the rotors anyways. I'm not sure what type of Rx7 you have but the tourings have a peice of ABS that blocks the duct since theres no oil cooler so that must not have been a concern of Mazda so I really don't think it should be for anyone else either.

I'm sure he gave it some thought to go through all of that trouble. The fact is, as you've stated, it is the most convient spot, and pretty much one of the only spots. Whether it sucks up some hot air or not, its still better then in the engine bay.

-Alex

TT_Rex_7

I know vacuums are capable of sucking up water, like a wet vac. Go spill a little bit of water in the garage and go suck it up with the vacuum and watch how its resistant to go up the tube. Unless you stick the tubing into a sink full of water its not going to suck up easily. If you have drain holes on the bottom of the duct water build up will simply drain out and whats remaining will be water droplets wich would have to travel through 3 filters. Put back in the filter on a wet vac and watch how much harder it is to suck up a spill on the garage floor. For that to be a concern you'd either have to drive through a flooded area, wich im sure no one does in their rx7 or be going WOT through puddles and in a rain storm, do you do that?! I'm not saying its impossible, just saying its unlikley, and wouldn't be something to keep me from putting a duct there.

-Alex

SpoolinRX

iTrader: (6)

wow this is just gettin dumb now

t-von

iTrader: (8)

I'm not worried. My point was blown way out of proportion.


Your situation is a little differant. Your car isn't going to scoup up water like the one with the intake in the passenger brake air duck. I don't think he will have a problem with just the rain. It's the low lying areas that flood (intersections) that may cause a problem.

You don't have to drive fast to suck up water. By the way I drive very responsibly.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Did I ever say anything about a turbo sucking in at HIGH POWER? I don't think so. I guess you don't realize that turbos do a great deal of sucking even at idle. Put your hand over the inlet and see if it doesn't damn near suck your hand into the compressor. The vacuum from the engine and the turbo itself will be more than enough to suck in water expecially in a slightly flooded area(intersection). Think about it, he drives over a slightly flooded area and with water high enough to rise over the front lip and into that scoup. You don't he isn't going to suck in water as well? Also don't forget how low the bumper sits above the ground espesially if the car is lowered.

TT_Rex_7

I see where the problem is now, in a previous post (like 2 up from this) you stated it being in the air duct for the brakes, this is in the oil cooler duct not down in the air duct for the brakes.

-Alex

t-von

iTrader: (8)

I asked for performance vehicles for a reason. Not Cavaliers or Civics. Those vehicles aren't designed with performance being the top feature.




You made some really good points. Don't forget I said radiant heat. That comes from the sun and that is what heats up the asphalt. Not the hot air. Like I said before, go outside when it's 100+ degrees and put your hand near the asphalt (windy or not) and tell me that it's not that hot.


Yes it will



Yep I have a touring with 89K original miles. That black ABS does block the brake ducks on my passenger side. My car has never been tracked but the rotors have warped. If the wheels were able to bring in enough air, don't you think I wouldn't have warping problem? I also have a 91 vert that has over 140k miles. The brake ducks on this car aren't blocked. Guess what these rotors have never warped.


Damn we both agree on something.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Thx for your reply Kevin. In some ways you proved my point. Also do you know if LT1-7 actually connected the pipe to the lower duck? Or does the duck just direct the air flow upwards towards the fabricated intake pipe?

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Bingo! See my other post about water being scouped up by the duct. Same thing!

t-von

iTrader: (8)

No it isn't just pay close attention. You might learn something. Sometimes you have to have constructive criticism so that everyone can understand someones point of view.

TT_Rex_7

Thats true but AEM and Injen designed their CAI's with added performance in mind. If their CAI's sucked up hot air they wouldn't have much of a benefit.

I know what you said. BUT, the radiant heat coming off of the asphalt has to heat up the air to make a diffrence. I know it will be hot, but take a temp. reading of the asphalt and then take a temp reading of the air 12 inches above it, they will be drasticly diffrent. When wind is brought into the equation though, the air will never be directly above the asphalt long enough to heat up to 100+ temps. With no wind, and no air being forced through the car (like in traffic) it will create a problem, but so will any intake.

I stated in a post right before your last one that we're referring to the oil cooler duct, not the brake duct on the lip under the front bumper cover. What my point was about the gobs of air coming in the wheel well from the tires is that any air that made it to the wheel well from the oil cooler duct would flow around the tire/wheel and never make it to the rotors anyways. I wasn't stating that the gobs of air from the tires would keep the rotors cool. If thats a concern though, you can always run ducting from the brake ducts on the lower lip to the caliper/rotors.




For those who think this is stupid, then you really must not grasp on to anything. This is what creates people to think and come to a common conclusion about what things will come into effect. Its called a constructive argument with a common goal to bring forth a correct answer so someone doesnt read the post and get the wrong idea about what this will or will not do!

-Alex

Edit: I've thought of a GREAT example. Picture a toaster oven (not a microwave) it uses radiant heat to cook the food in a inclosed area. Now if you was to take the toaster oven and remove its housing and let it sit outside and have food held 12" above it. It will take alot longer to cook because it has to heat up the air between the gap while the breeze is bringing in new air between the gap! Hell, it probably wont even cook!

TT_Rex_7

I don't think its actually connect. I'm sure he'll chime in soon and answer that though.

-Alex

TT_Rex_7

Yea but with drain holes, it probably wont hold the water long enough to suck up gobs of it. Think about this, go take a plastic bowl or paper bowl whatever, drill some holes along the ring that would be on the bottom. Rest the bowl against something and with the part of the ring with holes along the ground. Now throw some water at it, first there will be back lash or whatever and it will come right back out from the opening, the remainder will drain out, and whats left is just droplets. I can see how that will happen if it was raining and you drove through a pothole filled with water, just doesnt happen very often thats all

-Alex

t-von

iTrader: (8)

I can also see a little confusion here. In my case I don't have an oil cooler in the passenger oil cooler duck. Thats why I call it the brake duck. LOL



For being such a young guy, you are very intelligent. You just kinda pissed me off when you made this quote here: "Thats is the stupidest thing I've ever heard". Don't worry it's all good.

TT_Rex_7

LOL yea I went to edit that back out but it wouldn't let me edit the post. I wanted this to be a constructive argument! I appoligize!

-Alex