BoostFrenzy

there should be a "considering the fd" forum and new members should be barred from the 3g section for 30 days heh

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Dave, that's understandable. But everything's about presentation. I'm sure you know that We can have it as a "getting them up to speed" section And I think a LOT of the forums I'm on that have this are privately owned as well (teckademics, dtmpower, etc)

~Ramy

rotorbrain

thank you ramy!!! thats exactly was i was trying to go at in this thread. i think a newbie section is VERY worthwhile. the people that it filters out arent gonna just GET RID of their car. . . theyll still buy parts and theyll more than likely buy parts from whichever shop comes up on google or is close to them. . . if thats the issue.

telling someone with a REAL complaint to just. . . GO AWAY. as ive seen on this thread is childish. . . as childish and intelligent as throwing your last roll of toilet paper out the window just cause its slightly abrasive on your powdered little bobo. . . youll get no aid that way. . . and youll just be sitting on the can as you watch people pass you by.

this wasnt a thread started cause i was bored or being a jerk. . . this IS a problem that MANY have noticed and voiced a complaint about on this forum. a lot of the posts on this forum ARE cluttering the pages. it makes searching VERY hard. . . see the pattern? dont regulate on it. . . and the very option that the vets are trying to get the newbies to use backfires on them and ends up generating MORE occurances because they couldnt find the answer they were looking for on the search.

i dont believe this forum is a "stupid" one or anything like that. i have a good time on it. there is STILL a lot of useful information on it. . . its just that wading through the trash posts makes it a little harder to enjoy.

also, i realize that this thread should have been in the suggestion forum. . . the reason for it to be here is that there is more coverage. . . and i wanted to see what the regular flow thought about it. the thread isnt totally out of context. . . and im not cussing anyone about it. . .

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Well, I can almost guarantee there will be no "newbie" section any time soon or ever on this forum. Hell, we tried the "Advanced Section" last year which failed horribly.

My suggestion, don't post in the threads which you believe are pointless. If you see other members posting in them "just to post", PM them and tell them to knock it off since all it does is bump those threads back up to the top. Everyone has a right to post here on the forum. However, you as users can also help "moderate" by telling the people who do bump these threads back up to stop it.

Posting stuff in those threads like "sell your car and get a Honda" does absolutely NO good aside from keeping the threads on the first page.

rotorbrain

really? man, i totally thought it was a place for moderators to PUT threads that were worthwhile. i thought it was locked out to the common posts that we see regularly here in the 3rd gen section. sorry. . . just didnt know.

good point. i agree that being a jerk doesnt help with these posts. i guess i just felt like id be kinda jerky if i (not being a moderator) jumped in and told a regular to be nice. haha. . . sorry for that also.

oh, and thanks for that picture in the thread. . . it makes it a lot easier to read.

sonix7

First I will say that this site is the "ultimate" information collection and compilation of qualified people with experience for this car. Lets all agree that rotary engines are kind of a cult following so to say, there is not a lot of people out there that know or care. This car is close to extinction in the us, my point is that if you restrict this site more, then you can count on this car dying out, due to the lack of info or help. The newbie threads are sometimes entertaining, sometimes they are incredibly ignorant, just like Rotorbrain said, I was and still am a newbie on a lot of this ****, I have also done every search on every thing I wanted to know and read all threads pertaining too what I wanted to know. I found 80% of what I needed, the rest I asked. You have to, some things that are talked about become opinion based and there validity is now comprimised. That's why I want to know and start a new thread. I fully agree, the redundant questions are getting worse, hardly any useful info on anything within the first 10 threads everyday, I know, I am on here too much. What I have a real problem with is the tolerance for such stupid **** over and over from the same people and nobody just boycotting there thread or don't answer ever. There are always going to be people that are ediots and have no business with this car and will **** it up.One example I want to specifically talk about is a certain forum member that has been throwing threads out there that I have seen hardly anyone say anything to him and set him straight, and now it is worse. Hint "did you order pizza?". When you tell someone something and everyday they fail to listen and aren't really looking 4 help but for us to tell them what to do. Unbelievable!! I make my questions as thorough as possible and ask people theory related questions and there opinion and I get flamed, see what I mean? Last but not least we need to stop the "if you are worried about higher octane gas you need to sell your car", why? because I asked? If you guys that are too good to give help and get upset at people for the slightest redundant question, not aggravated newbism, then start your own forum, don't worry we won't cry. Newbies aren't gonna go away. Thanx to everyone that has ever helped me on here. Wish I could buy you guys a beer!!

sonix7

I also think it is fair to say that some of us don't want to help at all, but discourage. I really hate that ****. When you have done something to your car to make it better, then start a thread to brag about your accomplishment, someone that is in the same boat asks a specific question that will help them and you act like it is a closely guarded military secret and tell them to figure it out. That right there is bullshit. If you want to do that, I really don't give a flying **** about you or your car. I will try just about anything for myself and will continue to do that, but I like to know what I am getting into. Trial and error is not always the best possibility if you can get instructed on how not to screw it up first. Some people are so conceited and stubborn that they think they are RE Amimiya. PLEASE?

RX 4 Speed

although I do like Ramy's suggestion, I also see Mahjik's point.

Mahjik, what about Dave's suggestion of automatically directing you to a FAQ page the moment you join? Is that possible? We wouldn't really be limiting the privileges they would have, but at least maybe we could inform them somewhat and who knows, maybe that FAQ would already answer their question

I do also like Mahjik's suggestion of not bumping a thread that we feel is useless or pointless. It only urges more wasteful responses, and then bumps it up to the top. The mods can choose to respond to them by "politely" pointing them to the FAQ section, Robinette's or Ciriani's site, or having them use the search function...

sonix7

I will try not to bump any dumb *** threads, but that doesn't mean that someone else might think it is useful, conflict of interest. I love the idea of a FAQ page prompt when you sign up. That is a very trivial change that might really help. What do you think Mahjik?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Here's the thing:

Even if all the FAQ threads were sent to the user for the Authorization email, that doesn't mean they'll read it. Chances are: if they won't read it when they come to the forum now, they aren't going to read if it's emailed to them.

Pretty much the same thing as the search function. Every forum has one, this forum is no exception but still people don't want to use it.

The main thing about the "Newbie Section" is: who is going to patrol that area to actually answer questions? No one. People ask their questions in this forum regardless of where they should be so they will get more visiblity. How many threads have you seen with something like this in it:

"I know this isn't the right place to post this, but I want people to read it so please don't move it."

People are going to post here in this section regardless of what rules or anything we have in place. It's the same thing with Newbies; they want to ask their questions where they know people will read it.

While stopping dumb posts is a good goal, it's not a practical one. Concentrating on keeping those "dumb posts" from continuing for days/weeks is an obtainable goal. We have a lot of threads where 4 people post the same answer (and I'm not talking about the people who are posting at the same time, I'm talking hours in between posts). Stuff like "yea, like he said". We have a LOT of stupid stuff going on besides "dumb threads" which we can all work on to help stop.

sonix7

I agree, we will just have to stop bumping redundant threads period, we are all guilty, especially me, I will do what I can do to clean it up, otherwise lets continue to grow and nurture this site all we can. In my opinion is still the best forum out. I am out.

rotorbrain

im not sure if this is something general in form or if its directed toward me. . . ill assume its directed toward me since this is the thread i started.

first of all, the car isnt going to die out. . . well, its already dead. . . mazda helped us with that years ago. . . but as long as the import craze is there and people are still racing. . . rx7s and rotaries alike will live on. . . restricting one forum wont have that kind of impact. if anything, itll help. keeping this forum USEFUL will make owners WANT to come here for information. . . rather than getting on the first time and seeing mindless blowby.

no, i am NOT attacking newbies for their personal being. . . i dont despise these new owners/users whatsoever. . . i simply want to BETTER the forum experience. i was once a newbie. . . as everyone here was at one time (with the exception of a few. . . some actually had the knowledge before getting on the forum. . . but you can tell who those are when you read their posts). keeping the posts and threads knowledgable is key to survival. . . not allowing people to run over the forum with pointless banter. i could care less if someone is a newbie. . . the best example of this is ramy (fdnewbie). he came here to gain knowledge, and he did just that. he didnt come on here talking about putting stripes on his car to add performance or anything like that at all. this is the type of newbie that is APPRECIATED. again, i dont HATE newbies. . . i strongly dislike most of their actions.

ive already pointed this out. . . telling vets to go away isnt going to help your situation at all. . . "go away smart guy. . . but come back when IIIIIII need help. . . please." thats the attitude i see. no, i dont agree with some of the posts by vets who dont seem to help at all, but i definately dont agree with a post from a newbie telling someone WHO IS LOOKING OUT FOR THE GOOD OF THE FORUM/COMMUNITY to go away.

and btw. . . whats the deal with the highlighted/underlined words i see scattered around? guess i missed out on something. . .

BobfisH

rotorbrain, i apologise for telling you to leave - its just that i myself have been an admin of many automotive related forums and it really gets my goat when people do exactly what we are discussing here - bump threads back up to the top with non constructive remarks. Its the people who do this that i want to leave, and they generally have the same gripe as yourself. As i said, had this been my forum - anyone positng in reply to a blatant newbie stoopid question with not useful information, just telling them to search - would be banned.

Sure, point them to the search function politely - because many people arent not searching because they cant be bothered, they arent searching because they dont know its there, so by all means point them in that direction - but when people try and make an *** of some newbie who doesnt know what he is doing, it really pisses me off.

IMO the RX7 isnt a particularly unreliable car, it has a bad rep because a car gets bought, it breaks - owner doesnt know/have the money to fix it, so he sells it. Next owner has NO IDEA about rotaries so sells it on. That short little cycle (which happens every day no doubt) has just created 3 negative opinions about RX7s; and this kind of loop is only perpetuated by the smart *** stupid, unconstructive remarks i see daily on this website (Amongst of course all of the very well informed, extremely helpful posts around too!)

If i see a newbie post, i try to reply to it - answer the guys questions (no matter how stupid) and then point them to the FAQ. This is the way it should be done IMHO. It takes 20 seconds to write a useful reply, 10 seconds to write a smart *** discouraging comment and 0 seconds to ignore the thread.

Which is the least waste of time? I vote the useful reply - because no doubt if you answer the stupid question, its not gonna rear its ugly head again from the same forum member and the thread will die and disappear. Trolling only sparks arguments in threads that keeps all the crap at the top of the forum.

Just my 2p...and again, rotorbrain - i apologise!

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

With all due respect, I think that's apples and oranges. And while I may not have a say in it, I'm just going to put my opinion about it out there (you know me Mahjik, I respect you a lot), but I think that attitude sucks. Really. WHO CARES if it fails? Will you be any less off than where we are now? Absolutely NOT. Is there potential to benefit? Absolutely. Plus, it's not a section where you'll selectively move certain threads. The threads remain where they are. You're just limitng ppl's posting rights to only one section - the n00b section.

Understood, and it's an excellent point...except it's doomed to failure. You know why? And I've seen it happen. The newer generation of guys haven't seen these incredibly repeated questions. They've only seen them a couple of times. So guess what? They're more likely to be patient about it and go ahead and answer the questions. And that's EXACTLY what happens. The forum vets don't touch those threads, but then others who have been on here less time DO go and answer those threads. It's a vicious cycle, and really, there's no solution to it (save for the n00b section IMO).

Sonix, for the record, I'm not an anti-n00b. I just really don't think ppl have enough respect. I SAW how many threads said "SEARCH NOOB!" in them, and a lightbulb immediately went on - from the very first day I was on the forum. I don't think I've ever had someone tell me to search in my early days - although I've caught a quick one to the midgut in the last year or so when I got lazy once or twice haha. So again, this is more of an organizational scheme in my mind than a "lets hate on n00bs" thing.

Absolutely. That's the problem w/ that approach.

I disagree with you wholeheartedly Mahjik. Ppl like me don't know much advanced stuff at all. BUT, I sure got the n00b questions down pat That's where A LOT of my post count comes from (the other half being asking questions in threads more advanced than I am haha). But point is, there are several ppl who still take the time to go to the n00b threads and answer their questions. I do it, Herblenny does it, Rynberg's hanging by a thread, but still doing it nonetheless Alex, Gil, TRex, there's a whole host of guys who do it. And I honestly believe that they'd be MORE than happy (as I would) to use our spare time to hang out in the n00b section, esp. since we'd be so happy to see the 3rd gen section uncluttered and much more useful and user-friendly. Heck, how about giving ppl some credit. A little bit of faith. Set up a thread in the Suggesstions section asking who'd be interested in monderating the n00b section. I'm SURE you'll get a couple of good bites. Just don't shoot down ideas before they even take off b/c you may not see them as being successful - although others do. And again, repeatedly, I'm citing the successful use of such n00b sections in other forums, and it WORKS.

Sorry, I think you're missing my point. They won't be ALLOWED to post in this section - not because someone said so -- but because their forum PRIVALEDGES won't allow them posting rights. The "new post" button won't even appear for them in any section BUT the n00b section. So they have the search button - which they'll be forced to use, and the ability to post as they please ONLY in their n00b section. It enforces itself. It's a user profile with limited privaledges. Much like a user profile on a Windows-based server/workstation etc.

That's cuz the car already had racing stripes when I bought it! I'M JUST KIDDING hahaha. But na for real man...it doesn't take a genius to figure out what ticks ppl off on this forum. I used 2 type like dis all da time yo but I quickly figured ppl didn't like that at ALL. You adapt and survive, or you don't. And the n00b forum would be your adaptation ground. Never adapt, never get full access. Adapt, get verified, and we're all good to go. (and no I don't suggest we hold ppl solely based on their typing skills or lack thereof lol...my main thing is their ability to SEARCH and to limit redundant questions to one section only - NOT the 3rd gen section!)

awww.... feeling all warm and fuzzy inside

~Ramy

BobfisH

hahah i agree with you Ramy, and i know i for one would also be willng to hang out in the newbie forums and moderate. Maybe the newbie moderators could have the ability to revoke the "verified" status of noobs also - because your guarenteed that some will just start posting stoopid questions as soon as they are verified.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

The admins aren't going to create it so you may as well drop it (even if I did believe it would help).

Noob sections don't work. Why? Just because someone has 1 or 2 posts, doens't make them a noob. We have people with hundreds of posts that are still noobs.

There was a thread about 2 years ago when someone came on here asking about CF hatches. It was is 2nd or 3rd post and people jumped all over him. They later found out he was a race car builder.

If I went to a forum (no matter what type forum, cars, programming, graphics, etc) and got restricted into a newbie section where I had to make xx number of posts first, it wouldn't be worth my time to revisit.

It's not me shooting down the idea. I just know hos this forum is run. The damn Club banner hasn't changed in years and you think they are going to up and create a new section just for Newbies?

We also have people joining who aren't posting in any of the generation threads. That would restrict them for no real reason.

Sorry, rynberg and Herblenny are my buddies, but they aren't going to patrol an entirely new section just for newbies. People complain about posting in other sections because they never get viewed, how do you think a Newbie section is going to get traffic when we can get enough traffic in the to Brakes/Suspension/Wheels forum?

This forum does not revolve around the 3rd Gen section. You guys need to realize that.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

My post wasn't directed at anyone. It was directed to the "idea" of a Newbie Section.

Paul, sorry but you can't turn this forum into the image you want to see. Everyone has their own dream of how they want it to be and we can't satisfy everyone.

Have you seen Ramy's car? J/K

What you have to realize is that for a lot of people, the car in stock power form is more than enough. Why is a bad thing if someone likes the power in stock form but wants to add a BOV or change some external body parts?

It's not a bad thing, it's just "different" than what you want to do.

Disliking their actions doesn't make their questions any less important to them.

If the "smart guy" is only here to belittle people who "aren't as smart", then yes I would suggest they go away as this forum has nothing for them. However, if that "smart guy" wants to help other people be as smart, then I would like them to stay because it *is* for teh GOOD OF THE FORUM.

Revenue generating links for the forum.

rotorbrain

i for one. . . am all for a newbie section. . . ill moderate. . . i dont care. . . if it makes the site better. . . im all for it.

im glad the outcome of this thread is finally getting to the point i wanted it to. . . rather than, "go away and let us play"

the newbie section WORKS. it maintains the quality of the forum. . . it would bring it back to where it was about 2 years ago. . . and then some. im some jerk is getting on the forum and posting all sorts of doodoo, then they dont get to play. . . stick em in the newbie section until they learn. i dont think thats mean at all!!! is that the reason for NOT doing it? is it MEAN???? this is already a regulated community and there are plenty of users annoyed what has happened. why NOT make it more pleasurable? it isnt going to hurt anybodys wallet.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

i agree.. newbie section for the 3rd gen would work.

Just like few months back I requested that we should have A/V section. Now we rarely see threads like, "can someone post a sound clip of N1 dual?", "videos of FD!", etc ,etc..

I think Newbie section will eliminate same, repeated, threads..
Its now at a point where if you do a search, you get so many threads to search thru to find something..

Mahjik, I do understand your point. There are ton of very very experienced rotary guys who never post and just scan thru some of posts.
So, limiting the newbs with XXnumber of posts wouldn't be a good idea.
I think get couple of guys who gets on the forum regularly to move and make points to the newbs to post in the new section. My guess is that the newb section will be filled with same ole questions or eventually they will learn how to search.. But when there are so many threads with same topic, I will guarantee, newbs will make yet another thread..

I was a newb back when and I still think I have a lot to learn. I tried to help as others helped me. But its riduculous when some of the posts I've seen really scares me.. My favorite recently was when someone couldn't see the oil thru the filler neck..

Far as FDNewbie.. He now has more posts then I and I think he know more than me now.. He needs to change his SN to "FDExpert".

rajeevx7

iTrader: (11)

This makes the most sense out of the bunch of us, even though JimLab's responses are f**king hilarious!!
I personally would like to see some kind of min. $ donation for membership. It would filter out those few that aren't serious enough about the car to learn about it and would rather sell it in a year. And for the rest of us...well it is our addiction.

Crispy Beef

I've only been here a few months but I do understand the hassle involved with running message boards, it's part of my job developing and running them.

The problem with charging is that you'll greatly reduce the number of members, which I understand is the idea here. The main problem is that I'm guessing there's a certain amount of revenue generated from the ads you see at the top of the page, and if those companies can't get as many people to see their ad as possible they might pull it resulting in less money for the site.

Of course that's assuming the companies with ads are paying for them...

sonix7

gentlemen, I apologize if I sounded like I was directing anything towards anybody, I was just giving up my opinion, I respect everyone that respects me back, I guess I was just venting some of the issues I have seen, I AM GUILTY FOR SOME OF THE STUFF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, I get madd at newbie threads (especially engine swaps) but I have to let that go, I try to help people with stuff I have direct exp. with, not that I know everything, I just try and give my exp. and help. That's what a lot of you guys have done for me. I don't want anyone to leave. Just evolve this site into something better. I respect you unless you can't respect me. I have met some great people on here, even if we weren't talking about the car, feel me? Lets all be friends.

sonix7

members only section, annual registration fee (as little as possible), just like a mag suscription, special forums for advanced and newbie, moderators can maintain it. funded. what do you guys think. Not that they would do it, but I am trying to envoke change. Brainstorming. Ok I give up.

rotorbrain

that statement wasnt meant for you either. . .


im guessing im at fault for my "dream" of what the forum should be. . . only problem is. . . im not trying to step on owners toes. . . im making suggestions.

no, as a matter of fact. . . i havent. . . ramy, whats up with that????

you took my statement the wrong way. . . "their actions" refers to the way they request information or the way they conduct themselves on the forum in general. i could care less what jojo down the street does to his car. . .


i agree with this. . . but there is SO MUCH MORE that can be done. . . a newbie section would be a place for newbies to have their questions answered w/o hurting the integrity of the regular forum. it would give them TIME to do the searches. . . i agree that some people are ahead of the game, but that doesnt mean that they CANT do their time in that section. . . all it takes is a moderator seeing their posts. . . and moving them on. . . its a merit thing.

hmmm. . . thats nice. . . i thought the banners at the top were just that.

rotorbrain

i dont really agree with charging people to get on here. the internet is a great tool for information and learning, and thats exactly what this site is. i dont want to LIMIT people from the learning curve. . . just educate them BEFORE they become a nuisance. feel me there?

again, [enter disclaimer] i dont DISLIKE newbies. . . i want to educate them. . . properly. paying monetary dues is not necessary. . . dues are payed in a newbie lounge. . . and thats something that goes across the board. not JUST in the 3rd gen section. i think that EVERY section should have a newbie board. . . that way they can become custom to the boards customs. THEN they would be able to contribute w/o being labled as a parasite.