BLKTOPTRVL

In all your posts you speak of your company as 'we', but not by name. What company do you work for? Where are you located?

BLKTOPTRVL

I'd be curious to get a headcount at this time to see how many are interested in buying...

High Temp Silicone

Sorry everybody, I should have been more clear. My name is Jim Stieben. I am the "second generation" of a rubber family that has been in this fiwld since 1960. I myself have 14 years experience in the rubber industry. I am the president of ElastoFab Technologies Inc. which is a U.S. Government contractor supplying: Silicone hose, gasketing material, rubber sheet, custom molded parts, extruded and spliced profiles and of course extruded silicone. ElastoFab Technologies is based in Las Vegas, NV. We also dba HighTempSilicone which most of you know me by.

When I started visiting these forums I didnt want my name to be present due to some conflicts. For the past 6 years, I personally made silicone vacuum hose for some of they very companies that most people think have the best product on the market. Since that time some very drastic changes were made and we no longer produce the silicone vacuum hose for these companies. We setup HTS and now sell the market direct at deeply discounted rates.

We are currently setting up a webpage for our retail customers. This should be complete by the end of April.

Jim

High Temp Silicone

I said if we get to 10 I would order a small batch of material to make the initial kits. Based on only making 10 kits I cant get to the $242.89 target. The kit will need to be priced at $276.44/ea. This is based on how much material I have to buy. During the extruding process, the waste is nearly 7lbs of material (The material that actually stays within the barrel of the extruder). 7lbs @ $56.00/lb = $392 immediate loss. This is the reason why the longer runs are cheaper.

Right now most people have stated they are in if <$250.00 PER KIT.

1. DaveW
2. Dgeesman
3. Miatrx
4. Rotaryhardcore
5. Wapelhj
6. Sgwin
7. Rx8
8. Blktoptrvl
9. LaRacer
10. ????

Based on the fact that we have hit 9 already, I can make the raw material purchase and start the process. However the only thing I can do with the price is offer the original 10 people a refund from the amount of $276.44 to the target of 40 kits at $242.89 which would be -$33.55. For those original 10 I will also pay the shipping on the kits.

Remember that this kit from MMc is almost $800.00 if you were to build a similar kit by the foot.

If the price is ok with everybody, I will order the compound today.

Jim

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

I wouldn't buy a pre-cut kit. Way too confusing, and too many possibilities for poor fit. I'd rather cut to length at each location (using the hose removed as a guide) and have a continous piece left over.

HTS: does the viton have a better grip on the nipples, so that we may be able to skip the tie-wrap step?

[edit:] I'm cool with the initial run price of $276 with the refund option.

Dave

BLKTOPTRVL

HTS,

I would recommend that you do not order anything untill a FIRM yes is obtained from all involved. I started this thread as research and I stated that I would be in for < $250 based on the opinions and information gathered here.

But the reality is that at this point we have a price of $276.44 compared to a price of $118 for the silicone - with wraps and tool.

I would prefer to get a real head count before any further steps are taken.

High Temp Silicone

I can say that Silicone has a lower coefficient of friction that viton. Will they slip off the nipples? I cant tell you forsure. The ID's I have quoted are siilar to the ID that are in our silicone kits and have been proven over the years. I am not sure what the OD of the nipples are #1. However Viton has a lower compression set than silicone. Meaning that it will still want to return to its original shape even after it has been subjected to heat in a stretched configuration. This is tested by a method we use called ASTM D 395. We compress a specimin 20-30% and allow the sample to remain compressed for a specific amount of time. The amount of recovery dictates the final value. Silicone may recover 75% of the compressed area meaning it has a 25% compression set, whereas Viton will recover 85%-90% meaning it has a 10-15% compression set. This is important when making seals that will see any heat.

High Temp Silicone

I agree 100%. There is no way I want to buy all this Viton to go to waste in a green form. That would have a drastic negative affect on future purchases.

IF everybody signed up agrees with the price, I will order compound. If not we wait a little longer. I am not asking for deposits or anything upfront. I have had excellent dealings with some of the members here in the past and dont believe that a member would intentionally agree to purchase a kit to only back out when they are finished.

High Temp Silicone

Thats HT increasing my price and throwing in a cigar cutter/mail opener with a silk screened logo he buys in China. Does anybody really use this tool? I am trying to think about the end user here. A razor blade cost what .25 cents? The slittler (mail opener) is used to slit the length of the hose to "cover" cables. This better not be done with the Viton! His kit is $118 compared to my $80-90 SHIPPED price for members. BTW its the same silicone.

I am keeping the costs to bare minimums. No custom printed boxes ($$$), no mail opener ($), no cigar cutter ($). However we do provide, more silicone for a discounted rate and more technical support on the rubber/silicone you could ever imagine.

DaveW

Based on the small number of FD's around, you may not find 40 owners who know about this offer willing to pay $250 for a kit. There are too many people out there who either have already done the job with something else, or can't afford $250. However, if I was willing to pay $250, another 10% or so isn't going to scare me off. If I do the job with this material, I know I'm getting the best stuff for the application, and I probably will never have to do it again!

So, I'm in!

WNEC98

iTrader: (2)

I'm in for ~ $277

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

I think the big obstacle is that most FD owners who read this forum have no idea this buy is in the works. I personally wrote off the viton option and stumbled across this thread by accident. I'm not sure how to make this purchase known without being unfair to the other advertisers or breaking forum policy.

HTS: is there any way you can quickly put together a small/simple webpage for this viton buy? Just having an off-forum source of information and an email address would expand your (and the buyers) options dramatically. It wouldn't need to be sexy or fancy.

I can't go word-of-mouthing for a product that exists only in a forum thread, but a web page I can link to.

Which is one reason why hose kits sell best as off-the-shelf items - usually it's new owners or people getting a rebuild who do the hose kit, and that is a steady trickle of sales, not a group-buy kind of thing.

BLKTOPTRVL

You have a lot more faith in people keeping their promises than I do!

RX-8

iTrader: (6)

I'm still in. I need to replace my vaccum hoes and was going to buy the silcon set for 118. But I can scrape up 277ish. If for some reason this doesn't pan out, I'm in for one of your 80-90 dollar silcon jobs. Oh, and please wait on ordering the viton. Try to get some sorta official count or something. I'd hate to see you get burned.

LAracer

$277 is ok for me. I'm still in.

miatrx

277 is ok here too. I'm in for sure.

Tom

High Temp Silicone

Ok I will gamble on only having 6 people signed up. I had to pay a little higher price for the smaller batches, but I wont let that affect the price at all. I only am going to mix exactly enough material for 10 kits. If it grows from there I will mix more.

Right now the forsure buyers are:

1. dgeesaman
2. DaveW
3. WNEC98
4. RX-8
5. LAracer
6. miatrx
7.
8.
9.
10.

First ten get the refund option and will have their kits shipped for free. Expected delivery date is around 4-16-04. No deposits are needed. Could each of you send me a PM with your emails.

Thanks,
Jim

chagar

I would also like to get in on the buy. Have a 93 and will be getting reman engine in next few months. Would like to have it available for that job. Kill two birds with one stone as I planned on getting the silicone job done at that time
Thanks,
Charles

johnchabin

iTrader: (2)

Not a dealer, but a repair shop told me this (Mazda-Honda Shop in the Denver area). He said it was over $400 at the dealer and included all the factory hoses labeled by part number.

Based on your phone calls, it sounds like they either don't exist anymore, or never did.

FWIW, he told me the kit came from McDonald Mazda in Denver.

BLKTOPTRVL

Thanks.

RonKMiller

Not to steal Jim's thunder - since he is obviously an expert in the field - but would it not be easier just to buy some Silastic 25787 in bulk, mark it up - say 500% -then distribute it?

I think Viton is cool stuff, but way overkill when there are products already out there that would FAR surpass our needs...

http://www.dowcorning.com/applicatio...KT&pg=00000854

Keep in mind that Jim has probably forgotten more stuff about tubing then I'll ever learn (or want to learn...)

High Temp Silicone

Well here is the problem with 25787.

This is a general purpose silicone that is catalyzed with Peroxide. The tensile strength of this material is 900 PSI, elongation 262% and tear at 90PPI. When you compare this to our Platinums at: Tensile 1360 PSI, 340-360% elong, and 135PPI tear. We would be using a inferior grade of silicone than we already use in our current silicone kits. When I started making silicone hose I thought about the main objectives. I setteled on trying to produce a quality product that was far superior to anything on the market. Instead of making a quick dollar and producing bulk amounts of the same silicone that everybody else was using, I looked at what the end user disliked about other products. The main complaints were, kinking, collapse, dull appearance, weak material (tear strength), and cracking (excessive heat). We offset some of these issues by going to a Platinum catalyst and complimented the increased physicals with heavier wall thickness's on our products. I would go out on a limb and say that the R.500 radius would not be the tightest our 3.5MM samples could be bent without a kinki issue. I think that number may even get down to .375R!

Furthermore, no matter what chemical company produced it, any grade of silicone you use other than "Flurosilicone" (silicones which contain Fluorine, just like Fluroelastomers, AKA Viton) will be aggresivley attacked by liquid or aromatic hydrocarbons. However, Flurosilicone is even higher in price than Viton!

Can I make cheaper silicone? you bet I can. However the question is why would I? I have very low overhead, have great connections with raw material suppliers (some of which have been calling on my family since the 70's!) and can produce a product superior than the competition at lower cost.

Ultimately I thought the issue was cracking, splitting and tearing due to liquid/aramatic hydrocarbons not heat related issues. The 25787 material has great properties for a "Peroxide" silicone but still doesnt come close to what we are currently using.

RonKMiller

Well, there ya' go! Thanks for the info.

Guess I'll have to put my name on the list for some of your good stuff, since the HT CRAP I put on 3 years ago is starting to split all by itself on some of the larger nipple connections.

Can't believe I spent all that time doing the job only to have it start to fail so soon. I got ripped off even if I DID buy it by the foot.

You get what you pay for....

High Temp Silicone

UPDATED:

1. dgeesaman
2. DaveW
3. WNEC98
4. RX-8
5. LAracer
6. miatrx
7. wapelhj
8. CHAGAR
9.
10.

After 9 and 10 are filled, additional interest will need to wait until we get enough people signed up again.

Thanks,
Jim

High Temp Silicone

What was wrong with HT products? I used to make their hose. But he always was "price first, superior product afterwards" So we did both platinums and peroxides for them. What sizes split on you? what were the colors? how long ago did you buy them? Any indication of oil or fuel contact?

He used to tell me that some of the larger sizes were splitting all over the place. I asked him to send some back for examination. It appeared that some people are using this silicone for PCV hose! big no no. The oil made it swell up and split. You could actually see the oil permeating through the out wall of the tube.

Just remember oil and silicone = disaster waiting to happen.

If you buy anything by the foot over there get ready to pay for it. I will have to say one thing positive though. It has taken him YEARS to accumalate the information in regard to what sizes/quantity go on each car. I dont have the time nor the patience to do this. Therefore our "universal" kits have so much silicone, I have heard that people have bought our larger kits and split the cost between 2 cars!