help diagnose? car starts but dies, misfires? blue smoke... fml?
07-30-10, 12:56 PM
#29
^ could be.
sooooooo blocked off the oil feed line and ran it open header....... and HOLY F%@&%&%$*&!$@CK!!!! ITS LOUD. mann i have the ringing in my ear and im shaking still..
soo im kinda leaning towards it being my motor..... it still smokes quiet heavily... wierd thing is it only seems to be coming out of the front runner.... interesting? could this have anything to do with spark plugs?!?! like something with the gap or something??
youtube hates me... so more fb video links... second video shows what i believe to be all the smoke coming out of the front runner of the exhaust manifold.....
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...v=451413335378
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...v=451416700378
if it were the oil control rings, would it smoke from both runners?
sooooooo blocked off the oil feed line and ran it open header....... and HOLY F%@&%&%$*&!$@CK!!!! ITS LOUD. mann i have the ringing in my ear and im shaking still..
soo im kinda leaning towards it being my motor..... it still smokes quiet heavily... wierd thing is it only seems to be coming out of the front runner.... interesting? could this have anything to do with spark plugs?!?! like something with the gap or something??
youtube hates me... so more fb video links... second video shows what i believe to be all the smoke coming out of the front runner of the exhaust manifold.....
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...v=451413335378
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...v=451416700378
if it were the oil control rings, would it smoke from both runners?
07-30-10, 01:00 PM
#30
dorito powered
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 2,839
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
edit: ninja'd, also nice little fireball you got there in the second video, and that sounds like a fairly healthy idle, dunno what you were talking about on the last page.
07-30-10, 03:01 PM
#34
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
Were the oil control rings and/or metal rings replaced on the build? Mileage on the engine internals? I've seen many cases of various shops reusing lots of internals to keep costs down, and that includes the oil control o-rings, which are soft seals. Not saying KD did this as they're a reputable shop but you never know.
I recently tore down a blown engine (improperly installed BC and massive overboost) that was rebuilt by another local (NJ) shop that had barely 1000 miles since it's last build. Guess what? All eight oil control rings broke into pieces as I gently removed them, indicating that they were more than fried when they were reused on the last build.
I recently tore down a blown engine (improperly installed BC and massive overboost) that was rebuilt by another local (NJ) shop that had barely 1000 miles since it's last build. Guess what? All eight oil control rings broke into pieces as I gently removed them, indicating that they were more than fried when they were reused on the last build.
07-30-10, 04:24 PM
#35
im not 100% sure. i am almost certain everything soft was replaced... i gave him the whole rebuild kit by mazda... isnt that in there? also anything addition i ordered from......... (cant rememeber.... ill have to check up with him on the oil control rings..
07-30-10, 04:50 PM
#36
Tenseiga
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,252
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Even a new seal can do this and yes it can most certainly be rotor specific......
There are way to ensure that doesn't happen tho......
I kinda was hoping for the turbo since that's less work/money.
and I must be the only one with out a facebook account..... too bad i wanted to see a fireball.
I've ran a rx7 with out a manifold and yes it is loud. Mostly because it reflects off the fender......
08-01-10, 01:10 PM
#37
here comes another long post......
so ive been talking to Jim @ JPR Imports and Dave @ KDR Rotary. both awesome knowledgable guys and kind enough to help me.
Fuel wise: after speaking with dave he told me to check my fuel pump o-ring as hes said something like "hes changed more o-rings from fuel pumps and injectors? in the past year than he has in the past 26 years" with those odds, i figured id give it a look for my mysterious problem.
pulled it out o-ring looked perfect, no problems what so ever looked a little more and didnt like the wiring i previously did so i figured lets re-do it now since its out. as i was unbolting the FP from the cover, what do you know, one of the wires came out of the crimp. PERFECT! this makes sense and gives and explanation to why i was having low fuel press. rewired it all, re assembled, key on the on position, jumped the fp>grnd in the diagnose box and whaaalah! 30psi, fuel is back in business.
now back to the oil leak.... (dont quote me on everything, me and daves knowledge are on COMPLETELY different levels so this is how II understood it as im not nearly as knowledgeable as him) speaking with dave again he told me to check the spark plugs again. as per request they came out looking brand new. he said if the oil control ring were to leak then you would see oil in the grooves/cracks of the spark plugs, and since there wasnt any, it gave me a sign of relief as i dont think its the motor or the turbo.
BUT further tests needed to be made. he suggested 2 more things. remove the manifold and have it down to the block. pull the egi fuse, place a paper towel by the exhaust ports and crank the car. if the oil seals had went bad, there would be fresh oil on the paper towel.
so here are my results..
as you can see all the oil was coming from the front rotor... and u can see how much dripped out the front rotor from the spill on the floor... gasket was soaked manifold was wet.. etc..
so ive been talking to Jim @ JPR Imports and Dave @ KDR Rotary. both awesome knowledgable guys and kind enough to help me.
Fuel wise: after speaking with dave he told me to check my fuel pump o-ring as hes said something like "hes changed more o-rings from fuel pumps and injectors? in the past year than he has in the past 26 years" with those odds, i figured id give it a look for my mysterious problem.
pulled it out o-ring looked perfect, no problems what so ever looked a little more and didnt like the wiring i previously did so i figured lets re-do it now since its out. as i was unbolting the FP from the cover, what do you know, one of the wires came out of the crimp. PERFECT! this makes sense and gives and explanation to why i was having low fuel press. rewired it all, re assembled, key on the on position, jumped the fp>grnd in the diagnose box and whaaalah! 30psi, fuel is back in business.
now back to the oil leak.... (dont quote me on everything, me and daves knowledge are on COMPLETELY different levels so this is how II understood it as im not nearly as knowledgeable as him) speaking with dave again he told me to check the spark plugs again. as per request they came out looking brand new. he said if the oil control ring were to leak then you would see oil in the grooves/cracks of the spark plugs, and since there wasnt any, it gave me a sign of relief as i dont think its the motor or the turbo.
BUT further tests needed to be made. he suggested 2 more things. remove the manifold and have it down to the block. pull the egi fuse, place a paper towel by the exhaust ports and crank the car. if the oil seals had went bad, there would be fresh oil on the paper towel.
so here are my results..
as you can see all the oil was coming from the front rotor... and u can see how much dripped out the front rotor from the spill on the floor... gasket was soaked manifold was wet.. etc..
08-01-10, 01:20 PM
#38
here are the test results cont...
Left = front Right = rear
manifold/gaskets
all results are with the egi fused removed, and cranking the car on for 5 seconds
the initial trial was the "clean up" trial
here are test 1,2, and 3
test 1
soaked with fresh oil
next test results are on the right. after the test i cleaned it and the results are on the left.
test 2
less oil slightly smoked
test 3
practically clean and slightly smokey
test 4
cant see anything, little smokey
so i concluded my oil seals are still good
i THOUGHT i over filled my oil as the dipstick read above full so i emptied some out and got it to full. but when i checked the oil level and it was half full.. Idiotodically i saw it was "over filled" and leveled it to "full" when the car was on jack stands. so i believe those results are incorrect.
next test, reassemble motor w/o dp and have someone crank the car to see if oil leaks out of the turbo...
Honestly i think everything is up to par, i just feel like somewhere along when i had fouled spark plugs a lot of oil got into the motor and just been having trouble burning it out.. cleaning the parts now and will test again.
Left = front Right = rear
manifold/gaskets
all results are with the egi fused removed, and cranking the car on for 5 seconds
the initial trial was the "clean up" trial
here are test 1,2, and 3
test 1
soaked with fresh oil
next test results are on the right. after the test i cleaned it and the results are on the left.
test 2
less oil slightly smoked
test 3
practically clean and slightly smokey
test 4
cant see anything, little smokey
so i concluded my oil seals are still good
i THOUGHT i over filled my oil as the dipstick read above full so i emptied some out and got it to full. but when i checked the oil level and it was half full.. Idiotodically i saw it was "over filled" and leveled it to "full" when the car was on jack stands. so i believe those results are incorrect.
next test, reassemble motor w/o dp and have someone crank the car to see if oil leaks out of the turbo...
Honestly i think everything is up to par, i just feel like somewhere along when i had fouled spark plugs a lot of oil got into the motor and just been having trouble burning it out.. cleaning the parts now and will test again.
08-01-10, 03:35 PM
#40
did the test again, there isnt any oil spitting out, but the battery seems like its running out of charge... does would that matter?
also i spun the motor by hand and you can clearly see one of the points on the rotor is quiet covered in oil... can i run the car no header instead of constantly putting on/taking off the manifold?
also i spun the motor by hand and you can clearly see one of the points on the rotor is quiet covered in oil... can i run the car no header instead of constantly putting on/taking off the manifold?
08-01-10, 04:10 PM
#43
Hey benny, i had a bad oil control ring on my last engine. Just do what you're about to do, start it up with no manifold, give it time to burn off the smoke that's already there, if it doesn't stop smoking after a while then idk what else it could be. After I removed my engine, i turned it over by hand and oil would just pour out of the rear exhaust port. The good thing about a bad oil control ring is that usually your engine is fine, it just needs to be taken apart and put back together with new seals, no where near as severe as a broken apex seal.
08-01-10, 04:17 PM
#44
0bsndog idk what to do, mixed with being loud as ***** and fire shooting out, i got nervous lol.... it if i look at the fire pulses it seems to be misfiring?... the rear rotor fire shoots constantly while the front is like on an off.... how long should i let it idle for? i think im gonna put the manifold back on and then try it...
but i did do the test and hooked up another car to mine like mahjik said and nothing spits out...
another thing that jsut started happening.... my injectors would cut in and out? it sounds like the motor revs and and inj duty is like 13-14% and drops to 0 back and forth on a poor idle.. is that the pfc reconizing theres too much fuel or something and hitting fuel cut?
ps fp issue is not resolved, its still at 26ish psi at idle...
but i did do the test and hooked up another car to mine like mahjik said and nothing spits out...
another thing that jsut started happening.... my injectors would cut in and out? it sounds like the motor revs and and inj duty is like 13-14% and drops to 0 back and forth on a poor idle.. is that the pfc reconizing theres too much fuel or something and hitting fuel cut?
ps fp issue is not resolved, its still at 26ish psi at idle...
08-01-10, 04:22 PM
#45
It's going to need to run for a while to burn all that oil off, you could try bolting up the manifold and then using that flexible tubing to route it to your downpipe or midpipe, that way it will go through your exhaust and not be so loud, and then you can let it run for a half hour or so and not worry about anoying everyone in a 5 mile radius haha.
I had smoke coming from my engine bay, thought it was my turbo oil feed, replaced the banjo fitting and it smoke for another half hour even though it didn't look like there was oil on it, so I was worried at first and thought it was the turbo itself, then the oil finally burnt off and now it doesn't smoke anymore. So oil can linger for quite a while.
I had smoke coming from my engine bay, thought it was my turbo oil feed, replaced the banjo fitting and it smoke for another half hour even though it didn't look like there was oil on it, so I was worried at first and thought it was the turbo itself, then the oil finally burnt off and now it doesn't smoke anymore. So oil can linger for quite a while.
08-01-10, 05:48 PM
#47
I had smoke coming from my engine bay, thought it was my turbo oil feed, replaced the banjo fitting and it smoke for another half hour even though it didn't look like there was oil on it, so I was worried at first and thought it was the turbo itself, then the oil finally burnt off and now it doesn't smoke anymore. So oil can linger for quite a while.
08-01-10, 07:15 PM
#48
It turned out to be the oil pump feed line (bad copper washer on the banjo bolt) so that was a relief.
When I first got the car it came with the bad oil control ring, I bought a rebuilt engine and then sold my block to DJ Seven. I would think an oil control ring means a full rebuild (except you can probably re-use the apex seals.
When I first got the car it came with the bad oil control ring, I bought a rebuilt engine and then sold my block to DJ Seven. I would think an oil control ring means a full rebuild (except you can probably re-use the apex seals.