POM HB

Hi,

Don't think I made it clear on the subject, but here goes...

I'm thinking of getting pretty good A/F meter. Saw a greddy one for about ~270. Wonder if it's good. I know it's not going to be as good as wide-band O2 sensor one. But, anyone knows? I think the wideband would cost about twice as much, right?

I think it also comes with greddy own o2 sensor used with the meter kit. How is the sensor? Is it as good as wideband one? Maybe not, right? But, is it worth da money? How accurate is it...compare to wideband and stocker?

Where do we put the sensor in? Replacing the stock one?

Anyone who know about this stuff, please share your knowledge.

Thanks in advance.

POM HB

skunks

ok, here we go again...

A true wideband O2 sensor cost about 200-400 buck alone while a kit cost 1200 bucks, there is a reason why it cost so much, because it works!!! there are diy kits out there but even they cost about 400-600 bucks. Think about it this way, are you willing to risk a $3-$5k engine on something that will save you about 600-900bucks? i guess its kinda like saying why not fill up with 87 octane instead of 92 or 93 octane, it cost only ~20cents more, how much better could it be???
Think about it, and if you come to the conclusion that the greddy one is worth it, think harder...

There are some things you can build yourself like air sheilds or doing the fan mod cuz they are so cheap and easy, they are no brainers and there are things you should leave up to the pros like building a wideband... If the cost for a Motec is a bit too much for you, get a couple of guys together to pitch in for one or just wait.

BTW: the sensor should go at the end of the DP, right before the main cat (you should not still have the stock DP/precat by now!)

Lastly, please search, this topic has been discussed many many many times before!

POM HB

Mannnn...

Seem like you're getting angry at me. Sorry that I didn't do search. The thought that I decided to post this post is that I feel strongly about help that are available to others from others. Well, I guess I was wrong.

About the greddy one, as I see the price at almost 300 bucks, I just simply thought that it might works----may not be as well, but should beat stocker. Anyway, you're also right. Should you risk saving a little or pay a lot more later. But, well, I'm not too much of performace guy either. I just need one that works OK -- not the best. And, I simply don't know 'anything' about this stuff at all. I have no idea on the different between the cheap one and the accurate one. That's why I post this.

Anyway, I apologize if my post offened you, skunks.

Thanks,

POM HB

RTS3GEN

POM HB,
Don't get too upset, this has been discussed many times on the forum, if your car is only mildly modified you don't really need an A/F meter anyway, spend your money on a good Boost gauge(electrical preferred) and water temp gauge. These will be two tools more geared toward your entry level needs. A typical "cheap" a/f monitor uses the stock o2 sensor or comes with one provided but is only measured on a short band sensor. Meaning the O2 content of the burned exhaust is measured on a sensor with 1 volt or 1/2 volt measurement. This is basically a "guessing" gauge and is relatively slow for higher state of tune cars, by the time the O2 sensor on this type of gauge registers it is already too late or just plain innaccurate. A "wide band" or Lambda O2 sensor/kit reads a much wider voltage range usually 5 or 6 volts(could be more) therefore providing a much more accurate reading and thus allowing more precise tuning of the maps in the computer. Think of the stock/cheap O2 sensor setup as opening your eyes underwater in a pool. You can see shapes and objects but not very well resolved. Put on a face mask and it is crystal clear allowing for precise manuevering underwater. This would be the wide band kits that are much more expensive. So to make a long story long, stick with a couple monitoring gauges like water temp, or/and Boost, and as you become more familiar with the system then you may opt for a wide band sensor/gauge.
Art

skunks

sorry if i came off as mad, im not, just posting the facts.
Stock or aftermarket afr are good for nothing, only wideband/lambda meters can tell you anything.

BATMAN

now does this wideband o2 sensor need to be only used with the motec system? or will a Aem computer work ?.. .. i am guessing this senor gets hooked up to the guage or stright to the computer and you get the info off the labtop in the car
no clue apon this subject..


p.s. dont tell me to search either.
btw. fourms are used to talk to people.. not read previous conversions you had with other people

skunks

Motec is the only brand I trust.

Also, yes, forums are for disscussing but when something has been discussed about 50-100 times, its time to move on!

rxrotary2_7

yeah...you will be wasting your money with a greddy guage. look into some true widebands. i have the FJO and it works great. some other to do a search on are the tech-edge and the DIY.

RTS3GEN

The wideband should be able to be hooked into the AEM unit, I am not that familiar with the features of it, but only suspect that it has that capability. But if it doesn't you can use the stock one for the computer input(which will use the 02 reading for light throttle and cruise conditions, and then you'd have a display specifically for the wideband so you could monitor it like a regular gauge. This will allow you to tune on the street much more precisely than guessing!
Art

SleepR1

FWIW, I also thought about getting the Greddy A/F meter, but was coached against it

Art, I'm going with an Apex Power FC. I'm having Dave Barninger pre-tune the Power FC's base maps to work with the new reman motor Kim Barninger is porting for me.

I plan to replace the 102,500-mile stock O2 sensor with a new stock O2 sensor, but after reading your post, the apt metaphor of a diver's mask for the wide band lambda O2 sensor, I should consider the wide band lambda O2 sensor?

Tell me how to go about getting the right lambda O2 sensor that will work with the Power FC, and fit inside the Bonez DP bung?

How much and where can I order such a sensor?

rallimike

iTrader: (1)

It seems that a wideband gets used for tuning purposes only. If that is correct, why? Is a PowerFC unable to read a wideband O2 sensor? Or do I have this wrong?

rxrotary2_7

its called closed loop.

you use a WB to tune only. you run a normal O2 for your ECU. the WB can be logged in your PFC i think. (this is not your normal O2 reading) it is a spare input. (i am going off of what i know from the haltech) in my DP i have an extra bung welded in that i can plug off when the WB is in another car or i am not doing any tunning. the bung is welded to the very back of the DP. in the haltech you can run the output to a spare A/D input (reads a 0-5v signal) and log it that way....now the value is loged with all the haltech info.
the ecu itself does not rely on your WB.

skunks

you cant use the power fc to rear the wideband O2 sensor.

SleepR1

After a little searching and reading, it seems you are correct. The lambda oxygen sensors cannot be "read" by the Apex Power FC directly through the motor's wiring harness.

The lambda sensor gets hooked up to an analyzer, which hooks up to a FC datalog, which is hooked up to your laptop, and the Apex Power Fc. Only then can the Apex PFC read the lambdas.

For keypad tuning, the Apex Power FC will read its air-fuel-ratio data from the stock oxygen sensor.

In that case, it seems we're better off going with the stock OEM single-wire unit (expensive), or we can go with the Walker O2 sensor (inexpensive)

Here's a link Chuck Westbrook provided for a direct-replacment oxygen sensor made by Walker Electronics. No soldering or crimping. You unplug the old sensor, and plug in the new sensor. The price is $36 plus shipping! http://www.oxygensensors.com/

Back on topic with the air-fuel meters.

They are limited in the information they provide. They can give a rough idea of what's going on with AFRs (air-fuel ratios), but that's about it.

If dyno tuning's your intent, lambda oxygen sensor, with analyzer, FC datalogit software, laptop, and Apex Power FC is the only proper way to do this.

Seat-of-the-pants, road/track-tuning can probably be done with the FC commander keypad, and with the info you get from the stock/AEM O2 sensor. Apparently the Apex Power FC was designed with this intent?

Wankel7

http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/

They sell wonderful DIY kits. And the sensor does not have to be for tuning purposes only. You can leave the sensor in as long as you keep the heat powered up.

The sensor was designed to have a 100000 mile life in the honda civic it was ment for.

James