tcb100

I'll have to do it. I think Chucks 25 row duals ought to be sufficient.

I would have expected something more than a 5 degree coolant temp drop though.

Why wouldn't those two additional little "radiators" have more of an effect I wonder?

John Magnuson

Well for starters the oil and coolant cool different areas and aspects of the motor. While they both remove heat they don't necessarily remove heat from eachothers systems in a super direct manner. An oil cooler cools your oil and a radiator cools your coolant. Putting on huge oil coolers reduced engine temperatures a little bit since the cool oil pulls more heat off of the bearing etc.. hence the 5 degree difference Rynberg noticed.

In my opinion oil coolers are more to keep your oil in a good operating temperature range under extreme conditions so that you don't cook your oil to death and reduce it's ability to properly lubricate. As long as you're able to keep a sufficient constant flow of oil to the vital areas of your engine and the oil is at a temperature that allows it to function well I don't think you have a problem. If keeping your engine temps down is your focus you should focus on your engine COOLANT system.

But I'm neither an engineer or an engine builder so if someone disagrees with the above statement let me know. I'm very open to flames.

I beat the poop out of my car at the track with the stock dual oil coolers and have not had any problems YET.

-John

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Well to clarify, My car already ran nice and cool with ported water jackets and a fluidyne, provided I was cruising... 80-85 C. That's virtually where the thermostat regulates it, so no amount of "extra" cooling will drop it much... it'll just at some point close the T-stat.

However, in instances where the system is tested, i.e. sitting still, bumper to bumper with the A/C on, or on the track, you may see WAY more difference than 5 degrees. My car rarely caps 100 C (water temp), even on track now... I just ran two days at VIR in 80 F degree, humid weather and never saw over 95 C, even in 30 minute sessions.

I've never had an oil temp guage, but data from other friends indicates that on track in extreme conditions, they can lower oil temps from 245-250 to 225 or so over the R1 duals. That's right, on a hot day at Summit, guys were seeing those kind of oil temps (250)... I can't imagine what mine was that day with a single cooler. I think all of us rang up Duane within weeks of that event.

rynberg

Haha, I remember the first track event I ran after I got an oil temp gauge. It was a 50F day and I was seeing 250F. Scared the **** out of me on a cool day like that. I got the dual 25-rows 6 months after...

Trevor, are you planning on tracking the car this year? It's not THAT far over to Willow Springs/Streets of Willow or California Speedway...

Trevor

I would love to open track the car but I'm a little leary that I would end up pushing it too hard and damage the car. Not engine wise...I know how to keep a motor healthy....more body and suspension damage from me making an off track excursion. That's why I drag race...much safer!

The 34 rows are slight overkill but as I've seen today they're not that far from being optimal when its this hot outside. On my 104F 10.6 mile drive home with the A/C blasting oil stayed between 179-190F. That wasn't in a traffic jam either...that was the normal 3-4 minute wait at lights but mostly driving at 49-54MPH.

I'm defnitely happy with them...now I've gotta figure out my coolant side of the house. The Koyo radiator, new mazda stat, and the 12.5% antifreeze & water wetter mix didn't do much for my coolant temps. I ran 214-218F all the way home. Not good at all. I need to figure out the next step to try and keep it at or below 203F. I don't want to lean on the fans either. Fans are for idling at lights...when you're moving they should be completely off if the system is designed correctly.

rynberg

You need to seal the radiator completely, you can use closed-cell heat-resistant foam for this purpose. The stock radiator was sealed to the undertray and sides, your aftermarket radiator is no longer sealed, so it will help a bit. Also, just make sure the system is fully burped.

To be honest with you though, your temps don't seem that high to me, given your ambient temps and running the A/C. I see 210F all the time when it's 90F out and I'm running the A/C.

maxcooper

Also, as others have pointed out, the temps on an easy cruise don't necessarily tell us much about the capacity of the system. If I had a cooling system that ran 210F when cruising on a cool night, but then ran the same temp boosting around a track for 30 minutes in the high desert in 115F degree ambient temps, I would be happy.

My temps are a very low ~140F oil and ~170F coolant when cruising on the highway at night (I've got NPG+ coolant, holes in my thermostat, ceramic coated rotors, and just about every other cooling trick I could think of). But I pretty much expect both to be well over 200F and maybe as high as 250F on a hot track day.

I feel lucky to have driven my car on both Summit Point and the SoCal tracks. And I drove the car the whole way in between!

-Max

TT_Rex_7

What oil coolers (not kits) have drain plugs? I tried looking at Summit and Jegs, but neither listed whether x brand oil coolers had drain plugs.

-Alex

maxcooper

I think the CWR kit uses 19-row coolers. I think having the fittings at the top should be safer as you are more likely to break a hose off with them coming in from the bottom. But I've had my CWR kit installed for a long while now and haven't had any trouble with the connections being damaged.

-Max

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

If you drive mostly on the street or track your car at weather not exceeding 115F, I will recommend the twin 25 row oil cooler kit. I haven't sold a lot of dual 34 row kits becuase it's an overkill in most situations. Most people who bought the dual 34 row kit used them on track only FD's. The dual 34 row oil cooler is really for competition use only or when the ambient temp can go above 115F. Yes, it's the biggest bolt-on oil cooler kit you can buy and no, not everyone needs it. Hardcore users only.

As for Trevor, if you want to keep your water temp and air temp low as the oil temp, your next mod should be the Rotary Extreme Monster Vmount. It works perfectly in hot weather. You know our products are good at keeping temps low no matter what it is.

Chuck

jimlab

Let's be honest. If you drive mostly on the street, a single stock oil cooler is sufficient. A single 19- or 25-row upgrade is more than enough for occasional (even hard) track use, and probably overkill for drag racing. Dual 25-row oil coolers should handle any situation, including extended high-boost scenarios like the Silver State Classic Challenge. Dual 34-row coolers is just ridiculous, especially if you don't have a bumper with openings large enough to take full advantage of the larger surface area.

Before you need to worry about dual 25-row oil coolers not cooling your oil sufficiently, you'll probably have other more important issues to worry about. Personally, I think dual oil cooler kits are a waste of money for 99% of the people on this forum.

Trevor

First off nowhere in any of my posts was I trying to convince anyone that they need coolers this big. Even Chuck is discouraging people from buying them.

On the other hand a stock single oil cooler is not sufficient in my local temps. While putting around town I was staring at 240F at the cooler outlet. Who knows what the temps were at the inlet. I'm sure you already know with conventional dino oil 240F is pushing things pretty hard...not to mention that was only while putting around running errands. When my oil is that hot I switch from (possible) fun mode into drive like Gramma Trevor mode. I don't like that. Yes the 34 row coolers are overkill for people in most locations that don't have to play in 108-110F temps like I do. 25 rows would do just fine for places that only see the 90's. The thing is I've still seen 190-193F maxing out while daily driving in the heat during the last couple days. Obviously the coolers are doing some (light) work...you can't argue with that point. If the thermostat is full open then they're being utilized.

Personally I like to know that if I wanted to I can blast 5100' up my local mountain on the hottest day of the year without worrying about oil temps. I paid extra for the piece of mind. Hardly anybody needs that or would pay extra for that.

jimlab

There's no need to get defensive, because nowhere did I say that you were.

Then welcome to the 1% of people that do need dual oil coolers. But to be fair, you don't know that a single 25- or 34-row oil cooler wouldn't have been sufficient for your needs, because you went straight to two 34-row coolers.

Like I said... welcome to the 1% of people who do need dual oil coolers.

rynberg

Personally, I think that EVERY FD should have at least the stock dual coolers. I saw 220F frequently in the summers with my stock single cooler and that's just too hot, at least for me.

The problem is upgrading to the stock dual coolers isn't any cheaper than the aftermarket larger kits, unless you can find a used set -- which doesn't happen very often and even then, you are buying old used lines and beat up coolers.

As far as your point goes though...most of the mods I see people putting on their cars are a complete and utter waste of money.

jimlab

220°F is not excessive. Temperatures in excess of 240°F for long periods of time is cause for worry with conventional oil, but synthetic oils can withstand higher temperatures, obviously. If you track the car and beat the **** out of your oil, change it afterward.

Agreed. If your car wasn't equipped with dual oil coolers stock, upgrading to dual OEM oil coolers is a huge waste of time and money. A large single aftermarket oil cooler is a better choice, and leaves one side free for a cold air intake.

True, but there's no point in encouraging people to waste money.

rynberg

Don't forget, that 220F is post oil cooler! And we're just talking normal street driving, forget the track. Just one more reason to run synthetic IMO.

All that said though, my engine showed no oil-related wear upon tear-down, after 75k or so miles with the single stock cooler (and 10k more with the dual 25-rows). I still feel better with the cooler temps now though.

cloud9

iTrader: (4)

if your coolers are working "too" well then just take some heavy duty tape and lay it across some of the fins and that will help brings the temps up a bit