ludeowner

Hi guys,

I just got done driving back from getting my transmission oil change (did it myself), but now I am having major problems shifting.

The tranny is really hard to shift into gears sometimes. And whenever I try to go from 4th to 5th gear, it will pop out on its own. And the worst thing that happened to me on my way back, I was stopped at a light, and I was going through all the gears clutch pressed the whole time. Somehow it went into reverse even though I didn't select reverse. I had it stuck for a minute or so (the whole time traffic is zooming past me). I waited till it was clear behind me, and I reversed into the center lane. Eventually I managed to force it out of reverse and into 1st.

Now my question is, did I overfill the transmission fluid? I dont see how cause I used the how-to on Rob Robinettes page, and it specified 3 quarts of Redline MTL. and it overflowed after about 2.5 quarts.

I did have trouble locating the proper fill hole. I unscrewed a small 10mm (?) screw which was pretty long and half thread and half unthreaded. I removed another 12 mm (?) screw at the very top front of the dirvers side thinking it was the fill hole (my fill tube was to small for the other hole). I eventually undid the square peg with a 14mm box wrench. And this looke to be the right on, cause I just referenced it to the scuderiaciriani online shop manual.

Now, according to Robs how-to page and the Scuderiaciriani page I did all the right steps. The only tihng I did was remove the that screw at the top-front (drivers side) of the tranny, which I put back. There didn't appear to be anything on the other side of the hole to me.

Could it have been the type of tranny oil I used? (Redline MTL). Is this normal and will it go away? or is there a fix for this? Until I fix this problem, I wont be able to use 5th gear and I risk getting stuck in traffic again, so any help would be appreciated.

thanks

ludeowner

Also, couold it be a synchro problem? I'm not very transmission knowledgable, but how could changing the tranny oil cause this problem?

I did notice that the first bolt I removed from the tranny must have been the small tranny drain (long small screw half threaded half unthreaded). When I removed that screw none of the old oil spilled out.

Will draining out some of the oil temporarily solve this problem? that is until I get the synchro fixed. That's if the synchros really are the problem.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

You should immediately notice the same or better shifting performance. Something isn't right here.

There are two portions of the tranny to drain - did you get them both? See the attached pic from the FSM - you need to empty out both A and B, and refill at the filler plug.

Dave

ludeowner

Yup, I took off the the big plu at the bottom too to completely drain the old fluid. I undid the small bolt I spoke about earlier (which I assume is the small drain plug). Then I undid the big drain plug to let the oil drain.

Then I reinstalled both of those, and started looking for my fill plug. At first I took off a screw which was also on the drivers side but it was a few inches forward and way at the top (well away from the other plugs). Then I undid the large square peg with threads with a 14mm box wrench and started filling from there.

It took about 2.5 quarts till it started overfowing. And from what I've seen 2.5 is the normal amount.

ludeowner

Crap, I just took a second look at the FSM on the ciriani site. Is the 'B' plug also a small square peg that is almost at the very bottom of the tranny?

That was not the one I undid. Will I have to redo the whole tranny thing all over again? I guess I could buy a quart of Redline and reuse the old stuff.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

You could simply drain what's in there, then put in any clean Redline that was left over, and fill up with the stuff you just drained. Should be mostly Redline by then.

See the attached pic. I think you've got your mistake figured out.

Dave

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Be sure you do this on flat ground. If you have one side of the car jacked up, the fluid in the tranny will not be at the right level. If you are jacking with one side up, be sure the jacked up side is on the same side as the fill hole. Fill until it starts to overflow. Do not replace the plug. Lower the car to level ground and let the extra fluid overflow into a drain pan. Now jack the car up again and replace the fill plug. The level will now be correct.

Adam

ludeowner

I just got back from the hobby shop and its still got the same problem. I drained out of the big plug and the small plug, and I filled through the top fill port. I still had the same problem as before. If I try to shift into 5th it will slide right out as soon as I let go. I had to slam it in for it to stay there. Also when I am reversing, it wont let me go into any other gear unless I release the clutch .

Could my problem have anything to do with the fact that I removed to other bolts which I wasn't supposed to? I drew some arrows pointing to the bolts that I took off. The first one you can see, it was the long one which was half threaded and the end of it was smooth. Also the one you cant see is way up at the top. This bolt was about a 10mm head and it was really really short.

Luckily I dont do a lot of freeway driving. I guess if I needed to go into fifth I can always force it in. Does anybody else have any inputs?

thanks

spoolage

iTrader: (2)

definatley those bolts did somthing when you took them out or loosened them... thats the only plausible reason your tranny is going whacky on y ou

EviLPeNeviL

iTrader: (2)

Hey BlueShadow if you're having problems I could help you out. I'll be over in FF this Sat and if you got time hit me up and I'll see what I can do. I've changed my tranny fluid way enough times and MTL was the 2nd grade that I used. I was told not to use MTL because it's too thin, but rather use MT-90 which was a better improvement.

PM me if you're interested.

-Dan


BTW, the 3 red circles that you made are the correct bolts to remove and use during the change. The yellow ones I wouldn't touch.

KevinK2

upper left was likely a bolt that pushed a spring and ball detent for rev/5th location.mabe spring and/or ball was lost? lower right bolt is a pin to position reverse gear shaft.

best find someone very familiar with these boxes for a potential easy fix.

If one does not know exactly what they are doing, then they shouldn't do it!

Wargasm

So many things could go wrong with you messing with those two bolts.

The right hand yellow arrow goes in and holds the reverse idler gear shaft (I think that's what it's called) in place.

The top left arrow probably points to the interlock pins... This is a set of 3 pins plus a spring that keeps you from selecting more than one gear at once (UH OH!).

At any rate, I'm pretty sure your problems come from the incorrect removal of those parts. You should look around and see if you see any small springs or metal pieces about the size of a pencil eraser that might have fallen out.

Brian

ludeowner

I looked at the online FSM and I saw the two screws I was messing with. According to the pics that one up top did have a spring and little eraser head looking thing. But none of that stuff came out when I removed that screw. But I will check the work area just to be sure. The other small small screw looks to be a keeper bolt. I'm guessing that simply putting it back on will not solve the problem. I bet that the tranny has to be opened and the innards have to be put in the right place and then the keeper bolt installed.


If the problem does stay, I'll just get another tranny and I could play around with this one on my spare time. I saw tranny for sale for in my local area for $650. I was gonna be installing a new ACT clutch and flywheel soon anyways, I figure I'll throw in another tranny just for the hell of it.

EDIT: BTW, what's a good price for a used tranny and a rebuilt one? also there is nothing different with the R1 trannies and the others right?

thanks

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

That's definitely the optimistic way to look at it . Well, as long as you learn from your mistakes then you're making progress....hell, I've learned a lot from my blown motors and know not to make the same mistake twice.

Best of luck to ya man.

DamonB

Tranny lube has nothing to do with an obvious shift selector problem. Don't waste your time.

As others have pointed out the bolts you removed have at minimum let the reverse idler go amok inside the tranny. DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR. Get the tranny out and apart right away before you end up in two gears at the same time and blow up the whole mess.

KevinK2

a good fd mechanic might be able to just drop the lower cover and get things right again.

ludeowner

I was thinking the same thing too, I'm gonna ask some of the local tranny shops if they can give it a shot.

ludeowner

Hello again guys,

I've been studying the diagrams on http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/s...ansmission.pdf to see what parts were affected by the removal of the two screws.

I wanted to point something out on http://www.scuderiaciriani.com...n.pdf on page J-50. The figure 37U0JX-136 (4th pic) you'll see a short bolt with a spring and ball.

What function do these serve? I dont recall seeing a ball or spring popping out, but I did recover a spring at the work area. The spring is the length of a quarter, and it is very very hard to compress. I found it in the thing that oil is drained into at the shop, the ball was not found.

I see two sets of the ball, spring and bolts on top of the picture...could each of these be for 1st/2nd gear and 3rd/4th gear. While the one I messed with was for 5th/reverse gear? It looks like the ball and spring is supposed to apply pressure to something inside the hole.

ON the other hand I am still having trouble figuring out why the set bolt could have caused a problem. The bolt was only out for a few minutes and of course the car haden't moved. I dont see how anything inside the center housing could have moved unless the whole assembly in the housing being 'set' was under tension. In which case the screw would have been difficult to remove (it wasn't), there was also no noise after the screw was removed to indicate anything fell out of place, and the screw went back in easily enough.


I am just trying to find out what parts were affected by the ball and spring which I removed. On page J-46 I see that the ball and detent that fell out may have affected the parts numbered 20 thru 27.

Do any of your guys know what role the following parts play?

20 = 1st/2nd shift rod assy
21 = interlock pin (large)
22 = interlock pin (small)
23 = 3rd/4th shift rod assy
24 = interlock pin (large)
25 = 5th/reverse shift fork assy
26 = spring
27 = 5th/reverse shift rod assy

also for numbers 21, 22, and 24 do you guys think removing the ball and spring released the tension on these interlock pins and would they have come loose or were the interlocking pins locked in place?

thanks

ludeowner

BTW the ball and detent spring whici I believe are missing can be seen on http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/s...ansmission.pdf

page J46 next to the numbers 19-25 {1.9-2.6, 14-18}

KevinK2

agree likely ok on setbolt. buy new ball and spring, verify old ball isn't there, but a shift rod is. install ball and spring. go thru pattern, rear wheels off ground, 1st eng off, then on with clutch in ... may be lucky.

ludeowner

Hello again guys,

Just a little update on my tranny situation...it turns out that the ball and spring that were not in the tranny were the cause of my 5th gear and reverse problems. I think my guess was right, when I said that ball and spring exerted pressure on the 5th/reverse shift rod. I was at the hobby shop and getting an oily ball bearing into a hot tranny was no picnic. But as soon as I got it off the lift, I cranked her right up and it slid right into and out of reverse with no problems. There does not appear to be any problems I can see with the set bolts removal, so I think I am all clear.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Good to hear that. I'd hate to see someone go through tranny hell (it doesn't take much sin to end up there) just because of a slipup changing lube.

Dave