Gas Prices and FD ownership
08-09-06, 09:29 PM
#51
2/4 wheel cornering fiend
Originally Posted by fsae_alum
I haven't completed the cost/benefit analysis to see what's cheaper. 
Originally Posted by fsae_alum
I'm just trying to offer up ideas to counteract spending a damn fortune on gas. If you're not working to solve then problem at hand, then don't complain about the results of the problem.. 
08-09-06, 09:39 PM
#55
2/4 wheel cornering fiend
Originally Posted by Sgtblue
...there is also the issue with the shape of the rotary combustion chamber, which doesn't lend itself to efficiency. It's elongated shape makes it difficult to efficiently ignite (hence leading/trailing plugs) and complete combustion is harder, if not impossible, even on a properly tuned car.
Add to that the fact that leaner a/f ratios are actually more difficult to ignite, which requires either very high compression ratios, very efficient combustion chambers, properly located plugs with serious ignitions, and extremely efficient/fine mist injectors, or (usually) a combination of all three, and you've got a good reason to not try and outdo the Mazda engineers in one fell swoop just to save a little fuel.
08-09-06, 09:50 PM
#56
All this talk of AFRs is kinda missing the point.
FDs get around 20mpg when traveling, on a good day. It cruises with AFRs closer to stoich than under boost, but still if you manage to lean it out from 12:1 to say 14:1, you'd make your fuel economy by 16.7% to a, wow, whopping 23.3mpg. That won't solve ANY fuel economy problems.
Larz, man, traveling that far will always kill the wallet. Even if you trade up for a less piggy car that gets 30+mpg, you'll still be spending a big chunk on fuel. People have been spending significant amounts of money on gasoline for years and largely ignoring it. Now with prices being higher it's finally getting their attention. At least you're not towing the car, where 13mpg is doing very well.
I know this isn't a very productive post, except that I want to underline the fact that HP and size cost money at the pump. The FD isn't big, but the engine is thirsty, and you can't change that much more than you can make it into a bicycle.
Dave
FDs get around 20mpg when traveling, on a good day. It cruises with AFRs closer to stoich than under boost, but still if you manage to lean it out from 12:1 to say 14:1, you'd make your fuel economy by 16.7% to a, wow, whopping 23.3mpg. That won't solve ANY fuel economy problems.
Larz, man, traveling that far will always kill the wallet. Even if you trade up for a less piggy car that gets 30+mpg, you'll still be spending a big chunk on fuel. People have been spending significant amounts of money on gasoline for years and largely ignoring it. Now with prices being higher it's finally getting their attention. At least you're not towing the car, where 13mpg is doing very well.
I know this isn't a very productive post, except that I want to underline the fact that HP and size cost money at the pump. The FD isn't big, but the engine is thirsty, and you can't change that much more than you can make it into a bicycle.
Dave
08-09-06, 11:19 PM
#57
Potato Love
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by dgeesaman
All this talk of AFRs is kinda missing the point.
FDs get around 20mpg when traveling, on a good day. It cruises with AFRs closer to stoich than under boost, but still if you manage to lean it out from 12:1 to say 14:1, you'd make your fuel economy by 16.7% to a, wow, whopping 23.3mpg. That won't solve ANY fuel economy problems.
Larz, man, traveling that far will always kill the wallet. Even if you trade up for a less piggy car that gets 30+mpg, you'll still be spending a big chunk on fuel. People have been spending significant amounts of money on gasoline for years and largely ignoring it. Now with prices being higher it's finally getting their attention. At least you're not towing the car, where 13mpg is doing very well.
I know this isn't a very productive post, except that I want to underline the fact that HP and size cost money at the pump. The FD isn't big, but the engine is thirsty, and you can't change that much more than you can make it into a bicycle.
Dave
FDs get around 20mpg when traveling, on a good day. It cruises with AFRs closer to stoich than under boost, but still if you manage to lean it out from 12:1 to say 14:1, you'd make your fuel economy by 16.7% to a, wow, whopping 23.3mpg. That won't solve ANY fuel economy problems.
Larz, man, traveling that far will always kill the wallet. Even if you trade up for a less piggy car that gets 30+mpg, you'll still be spending a big chunk on fuel. People have been spending significant amounts of money on gasoline for years and largely ignoring it. Now with prices being higher it's finally getting their attention. At least you're not towing the car, where 13mpg is doing very well.
I know this isn't a very productive post, except that I want to underline the fact that HP and size cost money at the pump. The FD isn't big, but the engine is thirsty, and you can't change that much more than you can make it into a bicycle.
Dave
08-10-06, 08:27 AM
#58
development
Originally Posted by windom
You dont cruise under boost
Originally Posted by fsae_alum
That may be the case, but that also doesn't mean that we have to contend with an A:F of 10 either.
WHY do they like to run rich? Please elaborate.
WHY do they like to run rich? Please elaborate.
why do they run rich, characteristic of the motor (no way around it)...I don't have the time to get into it, but a key factor is the ports and the way fuel is injected...and the way compression is made (As mentioned above) much much different than a piston engine...
I do run 12:1 -12:3 in some rpms under 17psi of boost...I do this with a water/meth mix, but let me tell you with that much boost I still only get 13-15mpg with a heavy foot. I can cruise close to 15:1 as well...the car is a little more jerky so I normally cruise around mid 14's.
I do have a WB oxygen sensor feeding back to my Haltech and have managed 23.9mpg on a 650mi trip. (of course you can search this entire forum and won't find me complain about a single cost of this car...except the one time I paid a shop to build a motor, which I'll never do again)
08-10-06, 08:45 AM
#59
What's your point ?
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by bajaman
Once again....to those in the 'cheap seats'......
IF YOU WORRY ABOUT SPENDING MONEY ON FUEL, YOU SHOULDN'T DRIVE A ******* CAR THAT GETS SHITTY MILEAGE!
IF YOU WORRY ABOUT SPENDING MONEY ON FUEL, YOU SHOULDN'T DRIVE A ******* CAR THAT GETS SHITTY MILEAGE!
I have to agree here, I used to think Harley parts were up there, garunteed to throw a hundred at everytime I even though about putting something new on it, well the FD is or seems to look at a $500 bill for the least little thing. Gas is such a drop in the bucket compared to anything else on this car, if you can't aford to pay don't play. I figure most of the kids that own these will be getting back into the Civic's scene. (-:
08-10-06, 07:09 PM
#61
Originally Posted by Nuvolari
Heat at the pump, my response was ...go single turbo.
Hell with it 850 primary, 1600 secondaries ...Yummy 440 hp and 10 mpg
Save your FD, eat PB&J
Hell with it 850 primary, 1600 secondaries ...Yummy 440 hp and 10 mpg
Save your FD, eat PB&J
LOL! I think any car you track with a turbo is going to eat gas up. The FD isnt that bad on the highway if you are not in the throttle. the Miata would be a little better on gas but not by much. Not enough to justify selling my FD for one.
08-10-06, 07:54 PM
#62
Originally Posted by FD3S2005
then just buy a pos to drive around town or buy a hybrid and use that as a dd n keep the fd for track n maybe sometimes for weekends seriously man just keep the fd ull prob sell it to some one who wouldnt love it as much n prob do something stupid n crash it
Also I feel for our friends in England. After Tiger18 said he was paying over $8.00 a gallon I almost **** my pants. Last time I was at Road Atlanta for a NASA track event I sent about $100 in race fuel. It was $7.50ish a gallon for 100 octane. But I did average 12 mpg even though I never went WOT...still learning the car since I've modded it from my last PCA event.
Tim
08-10-06, 09:08 PM
#63
Originally Posted by iceman4357
LOL! I think any car you track with a turbo is going to eat gas up. The FD isnt that bad on the highway if you are not in the throttle. the Miata would be a little better on gas but not by much. Not enough to justify selling my FD for one.
Thats more than a little better for sure. I highly doubt the cost savings alone would justify selling the FD though as you say.
