zkeller

iTrader: (47)

I am using the SM2

jetenginedoctor

Okay, here we go again. . . . . .

I'm going to take your response as some attempt at sounding 'informed' or 'educated' or in some other way 'in the know.' Good for you, you're clearly on top of things here, the big internet winner.

Maybe you should do the same. Most people who I hear complain about their cars not running right, blowing up engines, etc. . . . are all schmutzing around with rinky-dink fueling and ignition systems. Most people DON'T have decently modded cars, for your information, and if you DO. . . I consider you an exception to the norm. But it's clear to me that your interest in this discussion is not to prove me wrong (which you cannot,) but to be the voice of dissent who stands upon your little wobbly cool-guy step stool and bellows at me, an admitted lurker, in order to look good for the 'fellas.' Good job, Scooter.

Then what's your argument? The ECU he is using is without a doubt the right management.

Oh, is that right? Is that your EXPERT opinion? How do you qualify that statement? I find it absolutely absurd to suggest that it's inapropriate to use the same size injectors in both primary and secondary positions. It makes perfect sense to use the same size injectors in all four spots if you have the means to control fuel well enough to enable satisfactory low-speed/load fueling and drivability. You're too used to seeing people running small injectors in the primaries and big injectors in the secondary for however many years that you've been reading magazines and listening to how other people do it. If you don't want to be told that you're using an inferior means of controling your fuel, or worse, a lemming for doing things the way everyone else before you has without valid reason, then don't attempt to aproach the concept of FOUR big inectors on a street driven car without some personal experience with the exact same equipment to back it up.

Good advice, I suggest you follow your own preaching. You suggest that four 1600cc nozzles are a bad idea. Back your position with some fact, or kindly shut your hole.

He did it because of the recommendation of his dealer (myself) as well as knowlegable rotary tuners (namely Enzo on this forum.) Once again, you're clearly regurgitating what you've heard from people supposedly in the know for ????? years without stopping for a moment to consider the merit of this type of fueling arrangement. If you knew half as much about the Autronic system as you do about repeating you THINK you know about other systems, you'd understand that it's a completely logical approach to fueling. You'd be on the same side of the issue as I am, and not questioning me for calling the proverbial spade a spade. Others lack of success with this setup is due to less capable equipment, and not because four identically sized injectors is a bad combo. Period. End of story. Nothing personal, just the facts plain and simple. If you have no facts, then you have nothing really worth saying here.

You're trying to talk down to ME by making these half-baked assertions of yours. How about you gather some intelligence on the issue before you try to take a poke at me? Believe me, I've been down other roads, and the fact remains that YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!! If you feel that I'm suggesting that your engine management is sub-standard, I'm sorry. It's not meant to make you or anyone feel BAD about what they may or may not have. The point is simply that superior results are a typical byproduct of using superior products. Makes good sense, no?

And is it your place to tell me what my place is here? Is this your website? Do you feel that owning a 3rd Generation RX7 makes you somehow superior to ????? other car owners? Buddy, I'm not here to solicit your favor, I'm here to represent factual information. I could care less if you like it or not. My statements, though they obviously make you uncomfortable/sad/enamored/afraid/whatever are to give the guy who is contemplating making the decidedly large purchase of an engine management system a fair and complete understanding of what our systems offer that others do not. When all the facts are known and all benefits understood, it's clear that our products offer an undeniable value.

Buddy, I've seen the signatures and mods lists (wish lists) on this forum, and they're as bad as any other. Get over yourself long enough to understand reality and the truth in this discussion. You've shown your opinions and shared your feelings, now please bring the tech.

BK

MakoDHardie

Sorry, I didn't know you'd take it so personally. I wasn't trying to tell you that you were wrong, but you may hurt some peoples' feelings when you tell them that the $1300 unit they just bought for their car is crap.

jetenginedoctor

I haven't taken anything personally. Like I said, I'm not here trying to be cool or popular, I'm here to bring the tech. YOU are the one who's obviously taken offense to the fact that I've called you out on the fact that you clearly don't know what you're talking about. You're trying to manipulate what I said to make you feel better about whatever fueling method you use, and whatever ECU/hardware you happen to have (or can afford?) I asked you to bring the tech to back up your position, so where is it?

Yes, that's exactly what you were TRYING to tell me. . . .

Ya know what? For a little extra money, those people with a $1300 box could have had a much better ECU. But instead of saving a while longer or opting to spend that money on keeping their engine together and really making their car run that much better, they probably bought a couple subs and an amp, some 'dubs,' carbon fiber interior trim, etc. I have no appologies for stating the fact that if you have a lesser ECU, you can expect to achieve lesser results. People often fail to realize that the lower cost product is not always (actually, quite rarely) the better value. This is all too true when it comes to car enthusiasts and the modifications they make on their cars. Sure, cars with other ECUs run pretty good, but that's not the point of why I entered this discussion. I merely chimed in to say that the way Zach is fueling his car IS the right way to do it, and that he WILL have the ability to control his idle mixture and drivability as well IF NOT BETTER THAN the guys with small injectors and lesser quality ECUs.

BK

MakoDHardie

Ok, Jetenginedoctor, you can relax. I understand what you are saying. And yes you are absolutely right. I only posted back first here because I thought you were calling Haltechs and PFC's pieces of crap, since those are what the majority of us are using. I didn't want to start bringing a bunch of tech into here because my point wasn't to argue with you on your own level of knowledge. Since you are marketing Autronic EFI systems, I didn't see a point in even trying.

Motec, Autronic, Haltech.... all those computers represent the top end of performance tuning computers. The only reason so many of us do not go with these units is most likely because the PFC does its job and without having to change out the stock sensors. Just two months ago, we had a T2 at my house getting a new motor and wiring up the Haltech was probably the most difficult part considering all the extra hole tapping required to install the Haltech sensors. For those of us who are not that ambitious with such a project, we find ourselves satisfied with the results of different management system that doesn't require custom wiring. But at least give us credit for going stand alone.

I didn't mean to come across as if I was saying 4x1600's are wrong, I was just saying that the amount of fuel they are capable of putting out is more than is necessary after forum members questioned how well the unit could idle such large primary injectors. Since he does have the right unit, he's kickin *** on his investment. And it's deffinitely way better than going with bored 1300cc injectors or a primary housing that's been machined to fit larger injectors because both have reliability problems. Real 850's and/or 1600's is the way to go. Stock 550 primaries and 1600s is a more reliable way to go than a 1300 comination, especially if the primary rail has been modified. 4 same size injectors is an awesome setup and I'm sure purely capable of awesome results with the right ecu. Zach is deffinitely running the right gear on his car for what he's done with it. I didn't say that 4 same-size injectors is wrong, but the duty cycles of the 1600's in the stock primary locations will be pretty low unless you have some really quick-spooling turbos. They will at least be low enough to show that for the primary induction ports, you could achieve intake fuel saturation with smaller injectors than 1600's. It doesn't mean for any reason that you should or its right or wrong, just that it may be a trade off for the tuner's preferences in some way, ie: taming the car's idle. As for Zach's setup, it will not be an issue given that he has the correct support for it and the tuner does indeed recommend it. I'm sorry if what I said came off the wrong way. This is Zach's thread and there is no need for us to high jack it with this argument.

Zach, you have a nice setup and my intention wasn't to appear negative towards your choices for fuel and management in anyway. I've read back through what I wrote and didn't find anything that may suggest that I do, but just incase, I appologize for starting an argument on your thread.

jetenginedoctor

For the record, I sell both Autronic and Haltech products. So, it is fair to say that my statement is without bias based on brand afiliation with only the Autronic line. However, I will be the first to say that the difference in refinement between the venerable E6 series of Haltech ECUs versus the Autronic ECU that Zach is using is quite shocking. That's not to say that the Haltech ECUs are not good, as they are very good considering their cost. There is a big difference between any ECU you buy for one in the $1000-$1300 range versus one that costs $1800 or more. Zach will now have much greater control of his engine than his old E6K could ever hope to give him.

BK