Zatzy

iTrader: (3)

Alright I have been reading thread after thread and they all seem to be scattered with different info. So here is what I am wondering; I am just putting my motor all together and am just about to get the fuel all together. As of right now I am sitting with a supra TT pump already in tank and stock fuel lines to the front. My end goal will be 500+ hp on a 90 trim turbo. I have the FFE primary and secondary rail installed with 725cc/2000cc ID injectors. I am wondering if I should run my setup as parallel or series into the rails and if I am to choose parallel would I need to upgrade the stock fuel lines from the back of the car? Also at that hp range should I still hook up the vacuum line or just let it bleed to air? I have read mixed reviews with what to do with the vacuum line at that hp range.

Ceylon

iTrader: (3)

No, you would not need to run two fuel feed lines from the tank, you would simply use a V fitting to split the rail feeds in the bay, same for the return. You would probably want to upgrade your fuel pump for your power goals as iirc the supra TT pump is good for around 450rwhp.

HTH.

oyvindjs

iTrader: (4)

Y-block from fuel feed line, run parallel, remove stock FPD and FPR, fit aftermarket FPR like aeromotive, sard etc. The FPR will act as the collecting Y-block before return line.

Zatzy

iTrader: (3)

Sorry I didn't mean run parallel lines from the back I meant at what point do I have to upgrade the stock lines. I read a few times they can handle up to 500hp but I don't want to have a flow problem once I split the front into two -6 lines. I already have a FPR that I would use as the return Y. What would be a good single in tank fuel pump for the time being? I do eventually plan to remove the factory has tank and have a new one built with internal baffling and surge tank so I could go for a much bigger pump then.

As for my other question does anyone know if I should hook up the vacuum bleed line (3rd hard line) or just let it relieve pressure into the atmosphere on it's own?

Mitchocalypse

iTrader: (2)

Take a look at my build thread, there's a few pics there of exactly what you're looking for. If you need any more help just message me or ask here but yeah, -8 line under the car, split the line in the engine bay to 2 -6 which feed each rail, each rail then goes to the fpr then a -6 return. Easier said than done though. Unless you have the resources to make your own hard lines you might have to get crafty with the fittings. My pics should give you some ideas though

Mitchocalypse

iTrader: (2)

Oh just saw some more questions you had.

At the 500 hp mark you should probably be upgrading your fuel lines all the way back. Although -6 is probably big enough for a feed, it's only slightly more expensive for -8 at that point which is why I just opted for that.

As for in tank setups, I was strongly recommended the aeromotive 340 stealth. My car isn't running yet so I can't actually comment on it but I hear people making 500 hp without problems. If you don't think that's enough, you can always get 2 of those pumps and T them together or run an additional inline pump (like an aeromotive a1000 or something. That's overkill but it's a stupid easy setup and it's better to be over built than under built).

I also don't see the need for a new fuel tank to be built unless it's a dedicated track/strip car.

There are a few methods of making the stock tank safer such as the Hyperion in tank baffle cover or adding a swirl pot/ surge tank.

The in tank baffle should be enough for a street car. If you're tracking it often, a surge tank might not be a bad idea.

Also the extra line.. Depending on the extent of your build I say delete it. Then again my philosophy behind my build was if it's not essential, it shouldn't be there. Might want a second opinion on that one though

Zatzy

iTrader: (3)

I will look into the in tank baffle but the other reason was to just remove the spare wheel well (cut it out and get it welded flat) so that I could get a bigger tank in there. Gives me the possibility to actually use the car for a trip and able to get some distance out of it lol. I will delete the vac line if it is not needed. If I do that is it possible to then use that as a fuel line and just T the bigger pump into each line from the rear and then just go straight into each fuel rail at the front? That is if that line is the same as the main feed line.

Mitchocalypse

iTrader: (2)

That's actually a really clever idea about using both those lines for fuel delivery. Off the top of my head I can't think of any reason that wouldn't work. Unless they were different sizes but I'm pretty sure they're not.

burban33

Yes you can use both as feed lines. I have seen a few posts on this so if you look around you should be able to find the posts. I know one setup had a pump on each line.

Zatzy

iTrader: (3)

Awesome then that's what I'll look into. Would it be better to do one pump per line or a single bigger pump split to both? I can do dual in tank hanger and run each pump to each hard line if that's a viable option

Zatzy

iTrader: (3)

I just want to stay with hard lines under the car. Less chance of failure then running rubber hose

Mitchocalypse

iTrader: (2)

Yep that's a smart plan.

Some people prefer running a pump for each line, but the way I see it, if one pump fails you're almost guaranteed to blow the engine if under boost. Likelihood of that happening is slim but you still gotta acknowledge it. In te end just go with what you prefer or think is easiest/ simplest. There's still a lot of debate over which is ideal so as far as I'm concerned both are viable options. Just go with what you prefer.

Zatzy

iTrader: (3)

Does anyone know any threads that explain using the vaccum line as a fuel feed line? Been searching and havnt come across any.

Mitchocalypse

iTrader: (2)

What do you really need to know?

Just look at a fuel flow diagram (Google it I know I've come up with something before - looked like something out of the FSM) and from what a remember it takes the fumes from the charcoal canister and delivers it to the engine (through the line under the car) and into the purge control valve and is allowed to flow into the uim at idle or something like that.

What you want to do is remove the purge control valve (if you follow the line from under the car it is easy to identify) and plug off any vacuum nipples that it connects to. Also, if you're really ambitious, you can remove all the wires that would go to the plug from the ecu and de-pin then from the ecu connector.

Now you just have an unused line under the car. Hook up the fuel supply however you like. As for the charcoal canister.. Think of it like a catch can but for fuel. Basically the stock setup is a non vented catch can where fumes are circ'd back into the intake, and what you've done is made it a vented catch can where fumes are vented to atmosphere.

Although you can just leave the canister how it is, some people will but a one way check valve on the line that you disconnected from it to free up the line under the car. This is to prevent fuel from potentially spilling out in the event of a roll ever. Obviously it's up to you to decide whether that is something you feel is necessary but it's just a safety mechanism essentially.

Zatzy

iTrader: (3)

This is my only concern and I have really yet to find an answer. If I am to use the Return and feed line both as feed lines and use the charcoal canister as a return line will I run into any issues with pressure in the tank?

boosted414

iTrader: (30)

The aeromotive 340 is good to about 533rwhp. Do yourself the favor now and run a 1/2" aluminum line under the car. I think it's 54 bux from summit. Buy the cheap line flaring kit for 24 bux. Then pick up the hard line adaptors that go on the ends to -8. I believe they are 4 bucks for 2 sleeves and 7 for 2 -8 nuts.

Do it right and once. It's not hard to make the line. My fuel setup is overkill but it's an e85 car feeding the cj Motorsport rails that have a built in Y. 2 -6 out of the tank to a y to the -8 then a -8 to the rail. I used the stock feed line as a return with a 5/16 to -6 adaptor.

Zatzy

iTrader: (3)

Alright I shall look into doing that then. Much appreciated. Are you running the 340 pump? I have heard the aeromotive pumps are noisy but that was in the bigger ones. Have not heard anything about the 340 tho. Also my setup has the possibilities of pushing over 530hp but I'm not sure if I want to push it to the limit. Would twin supra pumps be worthwhile or should I run twin 340's?

boosted414

iTrader: (30)

I ran a single 340 up to 519rwhp. Only 24psi on pump and meth. Also on stock hard lines. It wasn't as loud as my dual walbro 485s

Zatzy

iTrader: (3)

Im fighting between that and doing the CJ motorsports dual intank Bosch 044 and running the 1/2 aluminum pipe. Or possibly a single Bosch 044 and the Kenny bell boost a pump. too many choices!!

boosted414

iTrader: (30)

Cj is a great kit. No need for the Bosch pumps tho. Twin 340s works. Keep in mind that's a lot of fuel. If you have both pumps on at all times I doubt you'll have enough fuel line in the return

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i am responding to your PM...

let's assume 550 max on gas.

550 is 1056 CFM or 73 pounds of air per minute.

you want a touch of additional fuel so let's assume you want to be able to tune down to 10.5 if you wish... (yes, i know you will be closer to 11.3)

anyway, at 10.5 you need 6.95 pounds of gas or 1.094 GPM or 4141 CC per minute.

that is into the engine.... NET.

Gross is the injector nominal size which is wide open. adjusting for lag and 85% IDC

4141 X 1.35 = 5590 of nominal injector capacity.

you will need a fuel pump(s) that will flow 4141 CC at 25 psi.

43.5 static plus 25 = 68.5, call it 70 psi at the pump.


at 13.5 V and 60 psi...

the Aeromotive Stealth flows 304 l/Hour 5066 CC/Min

the Walbro 9000262 flows 352 l/hour 5866 CC/min

add a Kenne Bell Boost A Pump and run at 17 volts and you will add 40% additional flow. the good thing is only in boost.

BTW, i wouldn't run an aluminum fuel line under your car. break it and you will need a very large fire extinguisher. you don't need to change lines at 550. if you do, i suggest a braided dash 8 and stock return.

howard

Zatzy

iTrader: (3)

Well I am glad to hear that I don't have to upgrade the fuel lines as of right now then if 550 is a goal. I don't plan on going past that point. So is it worth my time to run dual pumps in tank or can I get away with just a single pump? I also came across this tonight and was thinking it could be a viable option Internal Surge Tank (IST) as I like the idea of an in tank swirl tank. Any thoughts on it? I would also have to run an external bosch 044 with it but in series. is that set-up ok to also run into the stock line or at that point should I run a new line? (yes not aluminium as a fire doesn't interest me after the amount of $$ spent). sorry for all the questions but fuel is not my forte and I just want to do it right the first time. Thanks in advance for all the help guys!

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

"is it worth my time to run dual pumps in tank or can I get away with just a single pump?"

at 550 rwhp you need 4141 CC per minute Max net fuel.

the Walbro 9000262 delivers approx 5500 CC per minute at 70 PSI (which is 43.5 static and approx 25 psi of boost) at 13.5 V.

to get 13.5 V you will need to wire the pump w good wire and an insulated stud to bypass the OE plastic attachment fitting. verify you have over 13 V.

as you can see one pump will do the job at 550. this pump did not exist in 2012.
i use the E85 version and like the ground breaking internal design and build quality as well as the price.

if you need more i like the BAP idea as you only get more fuel flow in boost.

others like 2 pumps... whatever floats your boat.

as to sumps and all that... the FD has an internal fuel sump. it does lack a lid but functions pretty well. i suggest keeping the tank better than a 1/3rd full when on a road course.

for additional info see my thread "Fuel Pumps 2013" in the 3rd Gen section.

Howard

Zatzy

iTrader: (3)

Well I'm glad this part of the instal is getting cheaper. I just want this thing back on the road! How reliable has that Walbro been? I only ask as I've had super bad luck with their pumps in the past.