no offense taken, and you're right...doing all this math in school will not make me a better mechanic. To answer your post, carbon buildup does not relate at all to lubrication and therefore to make it more relevant to rx7, it will not help the seals in that respect. Meaning adding fuel additive will not have the same lube effect as changing your motor oil. I do see a connection somewhat between buildup and fuel mixture since different mixtures will burn differently....but keeping things factual, that's all I know.

but build ups also depend on other factors that doesnt relate to fuel additives so possbilities are endless....

 

Luey, I don't think anyone is arguing with scientific proven methods. I just think that things work differently for different engines. A fuel/oil mix may infact not lubricate anything ever but the simple fact is that there are plenty of people on this forum who have done this and came out better during rebuilds and there are others whom this hasn't affected at all.

Basically this whole fuel/oil mix lubricating discussion is kinda like looking at one of those chameleon paint jobs...to some people it's blue, to others it's purple...regardless of science.

 

It's anecdotal evidence (if there is such a thing). But the rotary aviaton guys use pre-mix and 'unreliable' rotary engines, so if it's good enough for them, then it's good enough for me.

I've always used 'something' in the engine (Seafoam, MMO, or premix with 2 stroke oil), always will. Put me in the 'black magic' school of thought...

 

^sure, people can turn car believes into a religion.... I'm only commenting on the fact that vapor does not lubricate in a car engine. So if anyone ever tell you that, you know they're full of it... It saves a buck or two knowing fuel additives does not save a apex seal by reducing wear. Carbon buildup? that's another story.

no colors here man, or these past 3 yrs at school are a waste.

 

right... but 2 cycle oil seperates from the vaporized fuel/oil solution and is dissipated all over the internals. i shouldn't need to tell you that at that point it isn't 128:1, it's almost pure TCW-3 or what have you.

 

2 stroke piston engines rely on the premix for lubrication, that is a fact that even smaller amounts of oil mixed with fuel aid in lubrication of seals/piston rings. remove that lubrication and you get..... POP!

you can keep your science but i will never think otherwise.

 

Just try it and see it for yourself for new people who has never done it.
I did it before and some times I don't premix...when I feel like it I do.....
The car runs the same.........................

 

as far as I know, 2stroke engine doesn't use convention oil because the crank case is filled with gas/oil mixture. It has to burn the oil/fuel premix since the mixture comes in from the the crank case. Never seen it, but I bet the 2stroke oil is very viscous so it raises the overall mixture viscosity. So in short, the combusted mixture is not lubing the parts, it's the mixture in the crankcase that lube things, like oil in a 4stroke engine. Even that, 2 stroker dont last very long cuz the premix still isn't made for lubing.....

so i think that's the reason you can't premix 2stroke oil to gas in DI engines since it will ruin the flow rate at the injectors.. flow rate depends heavily on viscosity.

 

I believe this forum posting is in discussion about Lubri-Gas? If so...my company has 32 oz. bottles for sales, which will be released within the next few weeks. The benefits for adding this product to your gas tank is: lowers engine know levels(definitely notice when you see this on the knock level reading on a power fc commander), cleans injectors, better fuel economy, etc... this products has been proven to be safe for not only on rotary engine but also for diesel, and piston engines... if anyone is interested in the product, PM me.

 

 

I really would like to know the physics behind your magic potion.. what does it do to the property of gasoline with 1 part in 500? Dont tell me its fume lubricates engine parts.

Please dig up some info on this, i think all of us would like to know.

 

still waiting, does'nt oil in the fuel lower octane rating?

 

ok, you've never even seen 2 cycle oil? then why make a post about how it does nothing when you know nothing about it, much less how it behaves during atomization or combustion.

"Even that, 2 stroker dont last very long cuz the premix still isn't made for lubing....."

yes, it is... open up a 2 cycle engine and there is a film of oil on the cylinder bore as well as in the crank case... it's the same mixture in both.

right, the higher viscosity the lower the flow rate generally, but the thing is it's a low mix ratio usually so the fuel is barely affected by the oil.

i premix 1:128 in my fuel injected NA 13B with no problems.

idemitsu, the co that made the lubricants for the 787b 91 lemans winner, makes a rotary pre-mix.

 

alex, i can't find the premix on their site do you have a link?

 

idemitsu is also a scam.

 

you're not getting my pt, sweetie. I'm saying premix will not aid in lubricating the seals since lubrication require viscosity and premixing 128:1 will not change the viscosity significantly. Atomization describes how well fuel is vaporized in the compression stroke so adding oil does not do much to help it. Dont use term you dont know about, youll mislead the newbs. It has to do with chamber design, temperature...etc

try rubbing with your fingers with oil and your premix and see how much different it is....oil is made for lubrication, not oil and gasoline.

you shouldnt have problems premixing, it suppose to help your engine. but hate to disappoint you, it's all a hype. I bet you 100 bucks the other dude can't bring up any useful experimental to prove his product is useful.

dont tell me who and who uses premix and wins what and what... that's not how things are proved.

 

So how do you prove it?

Set up 2 rotaries, and run them until they die, one using premix and the other without? See which one lasts longer?

And which term was used inappropriately? Lubrication?

And why would premixing affect the 2 cycle oil's viscosity? Does the fuel and oil chemically bond in some way preventing there seperation inside the combustion chamber?

 

Oil mixed w/ fuel is a lubrication method for all OMP-less rotaries, and virtually any 2-stroke motor you can think of. I don't think that's "hype".

You may debate the ratio of fuel/oil needed for significant lubrication (an then debate the meaning of "significant"), but you can't call premixing hype.

 

I'm currently updating our company website (www.circusengineering.com) which will provide extensive information on lubri-gas. There is nothing magic about Lubr-Gas, yet anyone that is eager for valid information should search on the web...

 

Lubri-Gas does not lower octane rating.

 

any oil lowers octane to a degree, including the stock OMP system.

the reason some of you do not see a difference is because you run the stock OMP system, try removing that and run the engine and see how long it lasts. try running a 2 stroke without premix see how long it lasts.

magic? no, this is retarded proven fact! i can't believe i'm still trying to explain this "magic" or "BS" as some call it. to those non believers disconect your OMPs, it is the stock "premix" for your engines you dumbasses, see how long your engine lasts with no apex seal lubrication.

 

Why bother with this guy luey02 ? He obviously has little or no engine experience (knows nothing about two cycle engines). He believes a textbook makes him knowledgeable about a subject in which he has no background. Incidentally, oil added to gas does reduce octane, however one can actually reduce knock by adding the correct amount of oil to gasoline ! Race track proven in two cycles.

 

i know, i don't know why i'm trying to prove anything to him, maybe i just want him to try it first hand and see that "no lubrication" is actually a bad thing in any 2 stroke or rotary engine.

 

Let's look a some things,

1. Two stroke weed wackers and chain saws run around a 40 to 1 ratio.
2. Two stroke engines wear out do to a combination of power on every down ward stroke. the piston and cylinder acts as valve to open and close ports for intake and exhaust. They run at higher rpms than most four strokes and operating temps use to be high before water cooling which keeps the power levels up due to lower operating temps which reduces wear as well.
3. Intake is not entirely through the crank case any more they depend on motor ports to move fuel oil mixture to both cylinder and crank case.
4. Two stroke oil is specially formuated to burn cleanly preventing spark plug fouling.
5. Most modern two strokes have seperate oil injector pumps. (no Premix) They inject oil at the intake to mix with incoming gas from the carb. Straight two stroke oil is injected to crank bearings which later mixes with the fuel intake mixture that enters the crank case.
6. I raced two stroke Honda ATVs and Polaris and Skidoo snowmobiles. I owned a Kawasaki 500 two stroke triple motorcycle for many years!
7. Two stroke oil mixed with just about any fuel will AID in lubrication. Apex seals need all the help they can get.
8. Four stroke motor oil was never ment to be burned in the combustion process. It's a design compromise in the rotary engine. Carbon deposits are direct results of the ash/carbon etc. left by the engine burning oil. Gas is just a highly refined oil which means it burns cleaner and leaves less deposits.

 

Well, I kind of tried it on my 2 stroke leafblower engine. I accidentally filled it with plain gas instead of the required oil-gas mixture. It lasted just a bit over 4 minutes before it seized up. As soon as it stopped, I knew what happened!!! Too late.