Front Clunk
09-27-10, 09:16 AM
#1
Front Clunk
So I've been trying to get rid of this clunk in the front and did lots of research. After getting a mechanic to look at it and not being able to find the problem by checking the bushings I decided to just change the upper A-arm bushings as it seemed to be the cause of the problem for most guys on here.
After doing so, I still have the clunk when turning the steering wheel in parking lots. So now I am down to the lower A-arm bushings or steering rack bushings I guess.
Quick question, is there any others I am missing or does it have to be one of the above just mentioned?
After doing so, I still have the clunk when turning the steering wheel in parking lots. So now I am down to the lower A-arm bushings or steering rack bushings I guess.
Quick question, is there any others I am missing or does it have to be one of the above just mentioned?
09-27-10, 11:02 AM
#3
Your on the right track...
Like you, I would check the bushings first. Have you jacked up the car & shake the wheels to see if you can mimic the sound?
Essentially it can be only a few things. Upper & Lower arms, steering rack & components, sway bar, or shocks & springs. Sometimes you will get a clunking noise from the shock if the top bolt has worked loose. It pops in & out of the mount. Hit them with an air gun to ensure their tight.
As mentioned, it could be the balljoints. Unfortunately, you would have to replace the entire arm as Mazda made non-serviceable joints to save weight. How many miles is on your car?
I would inspect every bolt thoroughly. I had a rear clunk after I completed my suspension restoration. I thought it was my diff mount for the longest time, which was new poly. I inspected it & looked everything over a few times. It turned out to be a loose trailing arm nut to my pillow ball...
Sometimes things can work loose over time. But I do suspect a bushing in your case.
Be a great time to go full poly. I don't regret it one bit
www.powerflexusa.com
Like you, I would check the bushings first. Have you jacked up the car & shake the wheels to see if you can mimic the sound?
Essentially it can be only a few things. Upper & Lower arms, steering rack & components, sway bar, or shocks & springs. Sometimes you will get a clunking noise from the shock if the top bolt has worked loose. It pops in & out of the mount. Hit them with an air gun to ensure their tight.
As mentioned, it could be the balljoints. Unfortunately, you would have to replace the entire arm as Mazda made non-serviceable joints to save weight. How many miles is on your car?
I would inspect every bolt thoroughly. I had a rear clunk after I completed my suspension restoration. I thought it was my diff mount for the longest time, which was new poly. I inspected it & looked everything over a few times. It turned out to be a loose trailing arm nut to my pillow ball...
Sometimes things can work loose over time. But I do suspect a bushing in your case.
Be a great time to go full poly. I don't regret it one bit
www.powerflexusa.com
09-27-10, 11:12 AM
#4
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I would think the mechanic would have eliminated the ball joints upon inspection. After the lower bushings, the only things left are the steering rack, sway bar, and the shock bushings. I have a clunk initially when I hit the brakes. Doing upper and lower a-arm bushings soon, already went through all other components and these are the only ones left. It's tough to track down when you can't simulate driving conditionson a lift. Keep us posted.
09-27-10, 12:10 PM
#5
Yes tried to simulate it while the car was on jacks and yes mechanic did rule out ball joints.
I have checked bolts as well pretty much everywhere from steering rack to shocks. I changed my sway bar mounts last summer and those bushings seemed fine so I'm leaning towards something else.
I have checked bolts as well pretty much everywhere from steering rack to shocks. I changed my sway bar mounts last summer and those bushings seemed fine so I'm leaning towards something else.
09-27-10, 01:20 PM
#6
I'm getting a clunk too in parking lots when I turn my wheels all the way to the left and I just installed coilovers. I figured it was because it hasn't been aligned yet. I'll follow your guys suggestions for "2slo4my7"
Geez, I'm all over the forums this week.
Geez, I'm all over the forums this week.
09-27-10, 02:31 PM
#7
Check your sway bar links--especially if you have an upgraded bar. I had a similar problem turned out the connecting links were worn out and had a mile of slop in them. While you're at it, check the mounts (brackets) to be sure they're intact and not bent or out of alignment which can create preload on the bar.
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09-27-10, 02:57 PM
#8
Check your sway bar links--especially if you have an upgraded bar. I had a similar problem turned out the connecting links were worn out and had a mile of slop in them. While you're at it, check the mounts (brackets) to be sure they're intact and not bent or out of alignment which can create preload on the bar.
09-27-10, 03:16 PM
#9
Dull thud/clunk from the front end when braking at low speeds? I had the problem described below and also did the fix as described. It's cured it for 6 or 7 years now. If it is your issue, it wouldn't surprise me if your mechanic missed it. You really had to look close to see evidence of this "fore and aft movement" on my car. There was just a little shine on the inside of the chassis mounting points even though (at the time of inspection), the upper 'A' arm bushing wasn't touching it.......
From the old Ciriani site:
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 23:11:46 EST
From: FSBOREGIS@aol.com
I had a clunk in my front suspension since I bought the car. I had it checked and found that the bushings in the upper A arm allowed excessive movement. I was told that it wasn't a safety problem, but I worried about handling due to changing steering geometry.
The pivot point to this bushing is actually a metal "tube". The bushing limits noise and softens the road harshness (mines an R1 so it doesn't feel like it softens it much).
I wanted urethane bushings, but couldn't find anyone who made them. I watched the movement (on a rack, not on the road! I'm not insane!) and realized that if I could limit the fore and aft motion I could live with these bushings until such time as I could find urethane. (By the way I was warned by 3 Mazda shops against replacing just the bushings. They wanted me to replace the whole A arm because they had heard of several people bending the A arm when the bushing was pressed in place.)
I took the upper arm off and found that the inner metal tube had a diameter of approximately .625" and the OD of the bushing was 2". I made a trip to my local C&S Hardware store and found out that a standard 3/4" washer had a hole diameter of .75" and an OD of 2". I spent 80 cents and bought 2. It was simplicity itself. It took me about 15 minutes to install them as "spacers" on the back side of the rubber part of the bushings. It does not interfere in any way with the metal inner tube. They fit as if they were made for that purpose. They did not cause any binding in the assembly as the assembly tightens down to the inner metal tube, not the rubber bushing. I still have the flex and shock dampening, BUT NOW I AM NOT ASHAMED TO DRIVE MY CAR! The noise is completely stopped and it did not change my front end alignment.
From the old Ciriani site:
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 23:11:46 EST
From: FSBOREGIS@aol.com
I had a clunk in my front suspension since I bought the car. I had it checked and found that the bushings in the upper A arm allowed excessive movement. I was told that it wasn't a safety problem, but I worried about handling due to changing steering geometry.
The pivot point to this bushing is actually a metal "tube". The bushing limits noise and softens the road harshness (mines an R1 so it doesn't feel like it softens it much).
I wanted urethane bushings, but couldn't find anyone who made them. I watched the movement (on a rack, not on the road! I'm not insane!) and realized that if I could limit the fore and aft motion I could live with these bushings until such time as I could find urethane. (By the way I was warned by 3 Mazda shops against replacing just the bushings. They wanted me to replace the whole A arm because they had heard of several people bending the A arm when the bushing was pressed in place.)
I took the upper arm off and found that the inner metal tube had a diameter of approximately .625" and the OD of the bushing was 2". I made a trip to my local C&S Hardware store and found out that a standard 3/4" washer had a hole diameter of .75" and an OD of 2". I spent 80 cents and bought 2. It was simplicity itself. It took me about 15 minutes to install them as "spacers" on the back side of the rubber part of the bushings. It does not interfere in any way with the metal inner tube. They fit as if they were made for that purpose. They did not cause any binding in the assembly as the assembly tightens down to the inner metal tube, not the rubber bushing. I still have the flex and shock dampening, BUT NOW I AM NOT ASHAMED TO DRIVE MY CAR! The noise is completely stopped and it did not change my front end alignment.
09-27-10, 08:17 PM
#11
I'm thinking sway bar endlinks... Good time to upgrade.
http://www.improvedracing.com/produc...products_id=29
I installed these, and they work well. Definitely get the dust covers as well.
http://www.improvedracing.com/produc...products_id=29
I installed these, and they work well. Definitely get the dust covers as well.
09-28-10, 05:15 PM
#13
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It sounds exactly like the problem I have. Figured out last night it was the ball joint on the upper control arm. I thought it was a bad wheel bearing initially, but realized I was wrong when I had replaced it and the clunk was still there!
Get under the front of the car with it on ramps, try pushing and pulling on the upper control arm near the ball joint (up & down), if there is any play or noise, it is bad and the arm needs to be replaced.
Get under the front of the car with it on ramps, try pushing and pulling on the upper control arm near the ball joint (up & down), if there is any play or noise, it is bad and the arm needs to be replaced.
09-29-10, 07:27 AM
#16
How are you guys checking ball joints?
Mine have some mileage on them, but I've pulled them loose and have checked by rotating, pushing, pulling, yanking etc., the stud, and everything seems tight and smooth. There's a little bit of "stick-tion", i.e.: when it's been still and you first move it there's a little bit of "stick", but one you've moved it, it's smooth and free. I can't find any play, at least with the strength of my hand.
Mine have some mileage on them, but I've pulled them loose and have checked by rotating, pushing, pulling, yanking etc., the stud, and everything seems tight and smooth. There's a little bit of "stick-tion", i.e.: when it's been still and you first move it there's a little bit of "stick", but one you've moved it, it's smooth and free. I can't find any play, at least with the strength of my hand.
09-29-10, 10:51 AM
#17
How are you guys checking ball joints?
Mine have some mileage on them, but I've pulled them loose and have checked by rotating, pushing, pulling, yanking etc., the stud, and everything seems tight and smooth. There's a little bit of "stick-tion", i.e.: when it's been still and you first move it there's a little bit of "stick", but one you've moved it, it's smooth and free. I can't find any play, at least with the strength of my hand.
Mine have some mileage on them, but I've pulled them loose and have checked by rotating, pushing, pulling, yanking etc., the stud, and everything seems tight and smooth. There's a little bit of "stick-tion", i.e.: when it's been still and you first move it there's a little bit of "stick", but one you've moved it, it's smooth and free. I can't find any play, at least with the strength of my hand.
The correct way is to use the SSM or the fish hook method which I've seen mentioned in threads in the Suspension section.
At this point having replaced A-arms to fix ball joint issues on the FD and Miata, I just go by sound. Ball joints usually have metallic cracking noises which are easy to hear at low speeds doing parking lot maneuvers turning the steering wheel in large angles. Also under braking/turning scenarios.
09-29-10, 02:41 PM
#19
Yeah, I could only find that thread with max's comment:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...le#post2835746
I remember seeing a pic somewhere. Maybe it was on another forum maybe for another car. Memory fading...
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...le#post2835746
I remember seeing a pic somewhere. Maybe it was on another forum maybe for another car. Memory fading...
09-29-10, 02:55 PM
#20
Looking at the SSM, it mentions two torque measurements, with two readings each, to test:
Starting Torque:
2.0-5.8 N-m {20-60 kfg-cm, 18-52 in-lbf}
Pull scale reading:
20-58 N {2.0-6.0 kfg, 4.4-13.2 lbf}
Rotational torque:
0.4-1.1 N-m {4-12 kfg-cm, 3.5-10.4 in-lbf}
Pull scale reading:
4-11 N {0.4-1.2 kfg, 0.9-2.6 lbf}
The diagram shows the fish scale attached to a short arm clamped to the stud of the ball joint, which would seem to indicate that you measure how it spins in the socket, in addition to the resistance to spherical movement? It's completely unclear what you're measuring and which spec is which.
Starting Torque:
2.0-5.8 N-m {20-60 kfg-cm, 18-52 in-lbf}
Pull scale reading:
20-58 N {2.0-6.0 kfg, 4.4-13.2 lbf}
Rotational torque:
0.4-1.1 N-m {4-12 kfg-cm, 3.5-10.4 in-lbf}
Pull scale reading:
4-11 N {0.4-1.2 kfg, 0.9-2.6 lbf}
The diagram shows the fish scale attached to a short arm clamped to the stud of the ball joint, which would seem to indicate that you measure how it spins in the socket, in addition to the resistance to spherical movement? It's completely unclear what you're measuring and which spec is which.
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