Team,
I've just about had it with my car. It wont start!!! It will crank and sound like it would start but it doesnt... I know i didnt blow an apex seal because my car was fine before i started to do my non seq conversation, which i eliminated all the solenoids on the rats nest, but used them as resistance. I bypassed my fuel pressure solenoid by connecting a hose from the FPR to the nipple on the LIM. Im pretty sure i did not leave anything out.
Im sure my engine is flooded and i've tried the ATF trick, bought new NGK spark plugs, tested for spark on all leads, and tested for fuel to my main fuelline.
Anyone know if Mazda knows how to deal with flooded engines? Im thinking about taking it to them but im afraid of the huge bills they'll give me, just for doing some BS diagnosis.
Anything that i should know before i take it to a shop?? Should i keep on trying and using more ATF??

Nathan

 

I wish I knew how to help

I don't think more atf would be good

 

Since you put ATF in there ... you've got to get as much of it out before trying to start.

Take the plugs out, and clean them off.
Then re-install them and crank.
Then remove and clean them off again.
Repeat this until it starts.

ATF is not the only way to start a flooded FD. You can just pull the plugs and crank the car for 15-20 seconds. Then put the plugs back in, and it'll start right up.

 

Pull the plugs like van sema says, and crank it. Let it sit over night. Put the plugs back it. Sitting over night will let any excess fuel evaporate.

 

Just curious, if you leave it alone for a long time like a week or so, shouldn't it automatically be unflooded because of the fuel evaporating?

 

Letting the car set for like a week will let the fuel drain and the car should start. That was a cure once for my TII. However, keep in mind that the plugs could be fouled and thus not start like it should even then. You will need as much spark as you can to get/keep that thing unflooded upon start-up.

 

Evaporation would depend on amount of fuel/atf in chambers, and temperature. Best to crank it over with plugs out, and watch the mist going into the engine compartment.

 

Clean the plugs and get a cheap compression tester from Pep Boys just to check. Get new plugs if the electrodes are worn. Take off the intake elbow and shoot in some starting fluid (ether). Also, I believe on a flooded engine, you are supposed to crank with the pedal to the floor.

 

Although removing the fuel pressure solenoid from the circuit will mean the ECU is no longer controlling the fuel pressure at flooded startup, which is where the pedal is all the way to the floor, no? The manual says the higher pressure is applied at hot startup and pedal all the way to floor. the rest of the time its running throught the fuel pump resistor, right?

 

Let's start at the top...

I gather that you've just finished converting to non-dequential, right??

Has it run since the conversion?

 

I've always thought ATF was a mistake.

Seriously, you're hearing a lot of advice here and some of them (like letting it sit until it evaporates) could take you a week. I think that's a humorous idea.

It's gonna sound like I'm repeating other people, but just read carefully. Take the plugs out ... wipe them off and sit them out to dry. Pull the fuel pump relay and turn the key to start and turn the motor over several times (with hood up, of course). This is the quick way to evaporation because some of the excess will be dumped out of the exhaust ports, and the rest will basically be compressed and vaporized as the motor turns over. Dry out the plug holes in the housings with a towel and you can let it sit a bit if you want. You know the rest from here ... put the plugs and relay back in and start.

If it hasn't started since you took the stuff apart to do the non-seq then you might have bumped something to prevent it from starting, therefore leaving you with this flooding. In other words, the flooding might just be an effect.

 

correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think that leaving the solenoids on without the hoses is going to work. take them off and go buy some 330 ohm 1/2 watt resisters to stick in the pluggs. also if none of the other things work to get your car started try pushing or pulling it down the street for a couple of blocks and you should be running. don't take it to the dealer though bvecause all they will do is pull ther plugs and cran klike everyone else here has told you to do.

 

i've basically done everything that you guys said. I've taken the plugs out and let it sit overnight, cranked it without the plugs for 10 seconds numerous times, with pedal to the floor and fuel pump relay out. Im gettting fuel and spark and im thinking that im missing compression. But the weird thing is, when i turn the motor over without the plugs i can hear compression claps. Im getting advice to use more ATF since the motor will just spit it out no matter how much.

My car was running fine. After i did my non seq conversation i noticed that my car was running like **** and smoking like hell. I didnt bother driving it and just turned it off. I turned the engine about 3 times and shut if off quickly after that. Later, i noticed my map sensor was unplugged, so thats why im guessing i flooded my engine.

When i took off my old spark plugs it was totally black, but it wasnt wet or anything. Maybe its because i left the car alone after that whole ordeal for about 2 weeks, so the fuel evaporated.

Im gonna try putting more ATF in, advice from SKUNKS, and seee if that works.

 

yodaddy,
Im know for sure that you can leave the solenoids without hoses attached to it, only if your doing the non sequential conversation. There are quite a lot of people that have done it on this forum. I cant just see how its not working for me.. i might've of knocked something while working on the conversation, but i just dont know what else to check. EVerything seems to be put in place.

 

YES you can leave the soleniods in but not connected to a vacuum source. This is how my car is set up.

Use more ATF. The same thing happened to me once and it took me about a month to sort things out and get it running. It was just flooded. I ended up shooting about a cup full of ATF down the UIM and it fired right up.

 

I dunno about this ATF guys. His car is FLOODED. There is excess FUEL in the combustion chamber. What in the **** is pouring automatic transmission fluid in the combustion chamber going to do?

If someone can give me a logical explanation as to exactly how ATF un-floods a car, then go right ahead.

Listen to what DK said. Everytime my car flooded (except once) his method worked fine. The one time it didn't start I rolled it down a big hill and compression started it. This works really well, but only do it if you a) are already on top of a hill and b) don't mind taking the chance of having you car stuck at the bottom of a hill.

 

Oh, and if you take the fuel pump relay out don't forget to prime the fuel system once you put it back in.

 

Hey Ohseyun, push start it. Trust me it works! If you don'y believe me ask Yoshi7 He'll tell you


Here's a link to one of my replys

 

oops here it is:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...flooded+engine

 

It's my understanding that when you flood the engine, you basically wash down the rotor housing walls with gas, which causes poor sealing and bad compression. Putting ATF in will help the apex seals seal, thus the compression comes back.

 

I can only see this being the case if the engine had less than adequate compression to begin with. The motor should seal enough to provide proper compression for combustion, even if there is gasoline on the rotors...

I know my motor has good compression. My motor has also flooded several times (atleast 5). I have never used ATF, and had zero problems 'un-flooding' my car.

 

I've never had a flooded engine, so I'm not talking from experience, but I've read about the ATF trick in many different places, many of which are reliable.

It makes sense to me. Rotary engines have such a large sealing surface around each combustion chamber compared to piston engines, so it is more of a problem. For piston motors, dumping a little oil in the cylinder will give you better compression (until the oil burns off, of course).

Obviously if your combustion chambers are full of fuel, dumping ATF in will not help. You need to get all the excess fuel out first, then coat the rotor housing with some sort of oil.

 

Yoshi7 is my brother, it's his car we push-started. I was there, we tried everything else and thanked T-von thoroughly. His was is slightly embarassing and degrading to the FD (we used a 1990? Ford Aerostar to push it) but it works, believe me it works. Thanks again T-von

 

I understand the logic behind what you are saying, I just don't think it applies to a motor with good compression in the first place. Even at that, I really don't see how the seal between two metal surfaces could be weakened by applying gasoline. Do the hydro-carbons break down the metal or something? I just don't get it.

Here's what I think happened. Some dude flooded his car real bad one day. He tried everything he could to un-flood the car...but nothing worked. Finally he said "****...I wonder what would happen if I poured some ATF in there...?". And whaddya know...the car started right up. From that day on the way to un-flood a rotary is with ATF.

 

You got me thinking, and I don't really see how fuel will mess up a metal-on-metal seal either. But I have heard of people completely washing down their cylinder walls on a piston engine with too much fuel after a rebuild. And this glazes the cylinder walls, requiring dissassembly and re-honing. I've also heard of this happening from getting antifreeze in the cylinders from a blown head gasket.

As far as on a rotary? I guess its just one of those things I've seen so many times, I just believe it's true.