thewird

iTrader: (8)

They can be ordered in a variety of of heights and sizes. If you get the purple tophat, it is exactly like the classic Bosch EV1 injector in terms of sizing/fitment. Pretty ingenious way to supply your injector to everyone without increasing manufacturing costs of making different injectors. If you scroll to the bottom, you can see all the sizing combo's you can do... All 3 of their injectors have the same options.

http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID2000.html

thewird

arghx

iTrader: (3)

^ Great. That's the information I needed regarding fitment. I'm looking into these injectors for a friend of mine who is planning his single turbo conversion. It would be nice to keep the stock primary injectors.

A few more questions: What injector size did you set in the Datalogit and what did you use for injector overlap? Could you take a screenshot of your settings 5 if you don't mind? According to this chart



The injectors are rated at 2225cc @ 43.5psi base pressure. Did you use that fuel pressure? I actually use that currently on my 1680's. I know a lot of people run 40psi base but that is not common on other cars and it's hard to get flow testing and lag information at that base pressure.

HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

I probably will be going the ID route as I do not want to deal with resistors/fjo driver etc.

I have an A-spec 500R turbo, streetported engine built by Howard Coleman that I'm putting together right now. Will have water injection running on pump gas in Cali (91 oct) As far as power goals, I would love to have around 450-475rwhp if that is a possibility on a "safe tune"

Would you still suggest the two primary 725cc (http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID725.html) and two secondary 2000cc (http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID2000.html) injector setup? So as far as sizing go I would need the ID2000-60-14 models to work with my aftermarket secondary and primary fuel rails? (purple)

Thanks!

thewird

iTrader: (8)

Here you go... I'm running 43.5 PSi base pressure as well but when I asked them for the 40 PSi dead time numbers for the ID2000's they provided it for me... I don't have the exact quoted ones that were given to me but this is what the powerfc changed it to...

16V - 0.380
14V - 0.500
12V - 0.688
10V - 0.964
8V - 1.476

I needed to add negative lag to get the ID1000's @ 43.5 PSi to have a lean idle and it didn't cause any drivability issues at all. At 40 Psi, it might not even need any negative lag but I haven't got around to testing it. The ID725's require zero negative lag and are perfect, I'm testing both thanks to Injector Dynamics lending me both pairs. I'm going to keep the ID1000's though



thewird

HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

Why keep the ID1000 over the ID2000s? What do you suggest for my setup?

thewird

iTrader: (8)

I'm keeping the ID1000's over the ID725's, in effect running ID1000 primary and ID2000 secondary. You'd be more then fine with the ID725's on the primary and ID2000's on the secondary.

thewird

HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

Hey man, sorry to bump this thread but I am in the middle of getting my tune down.

The car is back together and I pulled the map that the car originally had before I started tearing the car apart for the rebuild. The only thing I've changed on the car has been the injectors/fueling.

I went from I believe a 550/1300 setup to an aftermarket primary/secondary fuel rails, FPR and ID725/ID2000 injectors.

Would I be able to take the map that I currently have on my PFC (the one prior to tearing into the car) and just change the "settings 5" tab and load that on my PFC and the car will be tuned for those injectors?

If you could help me in what I should put for the values in "Settings 5" that'd be great!

thewird

iTrader: (8)

Just use the dead time values listed on the ID site for your base fuel pressure and set the primary injector percentage to the injector difference. Doing this will get your car to start and hopefully run close enough to how it was tuned before in vacuum. But this does not mean you can boost safely. You will have to retune your car for the new injectors.

thewird

speedjunkie

iTrader: (3)

OK now I'm having issues with my ID injectors. I don't want to hijack this thread but maybe this info can help anyway.

I installed 725cc primaries and 2000cc secondaries and I changed my dead time values for 40psi and changed the injector sizes but the car won't stay running on its own. If I blip the throttle continually and keep it over 2k RPMs it will stay running, but even if I stop blipping the throttle and keep it above 2k it will die. It might just be the map (unfortunately the replacement wideband sensor I got isn't working so I don't know what the AFRs are) but I want to make sure I have all the other settings right, or at least close.

thewird, what did you mean by "set the primary injector percentage to the injector difference"?

I have not changed anything on any other settings page btw. Thanks!

FD3S2005

iTrader: (11)

thank god for this thread, i would not want that hassle of the fjo driver, i rather spend the extra money on id2000, and hell even keeping the 550 primaries and id2000 (which i plan to do when its single time) secondaries you have a little more fuel than going 850/1680, and if you need anymore fuel than that then you can step up to the id725cc or mod the rail and used the stock 850s.. or if your pushing that much power like thewird go id1000/id2000.

FullFunctionEng

iTrader: (13)

Those settings look correct, and you have just made a massive fueling change so the fuel map needs to be adjusted. I believe thewird is saying to make a broad change to the fuel map based off the percent difference between your old fuel injectors and the ID's just to get you in the ballpark. Say you were running stock 550's, and now 725's you would multiply your primary fueling by 0.76 (550/725).

speedjunkie

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I should have mentioned that I had 1000cc primary and 1600cc secondary before, so I'm stepping down on the primaries and stepping up on the secondaries. So nothing needs to be changed in the "Injectors" and "Injector Overlap" sections of Settings 5? The only thing I had changed in "Injectors" was the sizes. And since my wideband is still not working, if it's just the map I need to change, I believe I'm dead in the water at this point.

FD3S2005

iTrader: (11)

i am curious as i just started thinking about the injector duty, how does the PFC give you the duty cycle??

thewird

iTrader: (8)

If you were running the ID1000's before, your primary injector % would have been ~57.3%. If you went to the ID725's, then your primary injector % would go to ~79.7%. This change usually makes your primary injector fueling be close to what your tuned map was before and should be enough to drive around (in vacuum) at a minimum until you can get the car retuned. But its not always the case and you may need to make small changes to make it run alright. So try setting your injector percentages to 79.7% and see how it runs.

If your injector % was 100% with the ID1000's then you'd have to use completely different numbers altogether with the ID725's.

Also, lower your injector staging to 35% and you'd want to set the secondary injector lag to zero since your inputting the real dead times on lag tables.

thewird

speedjunkie

iTrader: (3)

Awesome, thanks!! I mirrored your settings on pri/sec transition % and sec transition ms and I changed the injector percentages to 79.7 like you said, so we'll see what happens. Would there be any reason I'd need to change the boost settings under "injector overlap"?

Thanks! I'll post up results. Here is a pic of what I'm going to try.

thewird

iTrader: (8)

Set 0.18 values to 0. You shouldn't need to touch injector overlap if I remember right. If anything try 432, it just affects how your secondary injectors come on.

thewird

speedjunkie

iTrader: (3)

OK I made that change but it's still not staying running on it's own. My roommate suggested adjusting idle since I've changed injectors and other settings. I'm going to play around with it more tonight. Thanks for your help!

FD3S2005

iTrader: (11)

Why not bring it to some tuner to fix it?

thewird

iTrader: (8)

Sounds like there isn't enough fuel. If it was idling fine before, there should be no reason to touch the screws at all. Post your map and I'll take a look at it.

thewird

speedjunkie

iTrader: (3)

Because I need to get it to run at least to take it to a tuner HAHA. And when I had it tuned in Sept, at first he was trying to tell me by making the cells red that we were adding fuel and I kept trying to tell him it was the other way around haha. He finally listened to me and we were on our way haha...all that coupled with the fact that he has the capability to tune only with AFRs, I kinda wanna go somewhere else.

I'm trying to attach my map but it's in DAT format, how do I change it so I can attach it?

thewird

iTrader: (8)

Zip it I believe.

thewird

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Here is a technique I use frequently when scaling injectors. Go into your FC-Edit software. Save your current map if it's not already saved. Go to tools --> recalc base . Your fueling doesn't really change from this but the INJ screen should now be reset to read 1.00 . Add 5% fuel initially:



Start the engine and keep it alive by putting your foot on the gas. Make sure "auto update" is on (you have to be careful with this feature though). Highlight the entire 20x20 cell matrix and use the "+" and "-" keys to increase and decrease fuel across the board.



Try to slowly let out the gas pedal. Watch your wideband (you do have one right). If it gets leaner than 12.5:1 - 13:1 , add fuel using the "+" key. Get it to idle stably. Now here's the thing. When the engine is cold there is a water temp correction map that enriches the fuel. You need to keep the engine alive until it hits 80C (begin logging and watch the temps in the "monitor" window) and then you will have to adjust the fuel again because the engine is properly warmed up.

Once you've made that broad % correction, you will need to adjust the Water Temp Correction in settings 2 tab for the next cold start. On another day with the engine completely cold, start the car. Enable "auto update" in the Datalogit software. The engine may have trouble idling again or may be idling excessively rich. You want to aim for between 12:1 and 13:1 during warmup (it's going to fluctuate).

Go to the Water Temp correction settings and adjust the left column as the engine warms up. You will have to physically type in values. The left column affects fuel in higher vacuum areas while the right column affects fueling when you are driving around (up to about 6-7psi). Don't worry about the right column right now, at this point you should just warm the engine up in your driveway before you attempt to drive it.

speedjunkie

iTrader: (3)

I wish I wasn't so clueless to this stuff haha. I've attached the current map.

Well, I DO have one, but I DO NOT have a WORKING wideband HAHA. The sensor broke (at least that's what I diagnosed it to through others previous problems) so I replaced it with a $90 replacement and I'm still getting the 3 dashes on the gauge. I'm uber pissed about that right now. I WAS planning on making this a lot easier but they had other plans for me I guess. So I guess I'll have to wait to do all this until after I get a working wideband again.

speedjunkie

iTrader: (3)

Well I discovered last night that a the cable from the LC-1 to the gauge had become unplugged and that's why I was getting the three dashes, so I feel pretty foolish now for not checking that before haha. Anyway, I haven't started the car and used the wideband yet but I have done the free air calibration and it seems to be working normally so far. I'm still confused on the fuel map at this point though. I'm going to mess with the map some more tonight, this time with wideband, and see what happens.

Wow, I've really hijacked the **** outta this thread haha. My apologies OP.

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

I recommend using a 10a inline fuse for the FJO's power wire. If you power it from the ECU's power, the 30a EGI fuse is too much.... It will fry it if shorted.

I know this from experience. Alternator plug wiring shorted popping my EGI fuse. The FJO didn't survive.