ArchangelX

This is in reference to this thread, I posted a new topic so I could add the videos headline:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/question-ground-wire-location-we-finished-car-no-start-580803/

Welps, anyways, we gave it another go yesterday. Before we attempted to start the car...we checked and cleaned the spark plugs again, checked the fuel pressure and made sure the fuel lines were hooked up properly, double-checked all of the fuses, fluids, battery connections...pretty much a general once-over again. Whatever we did...it started up immediately (it wasn't the spark plugs, because we had tried that on Friday).

So we go to start it up...and this is what happens:


We assumed the horrible sound was the alternator...that the bearings might have been bad, or that the belt was loose. We tightened up the belt and gave it another go:



Still the same sound, the same belt seizure, plus, we had all the warning lights popping up.At this point, we said...let's check it completly, and we removed the alternator. But after removing it, we realized the bearings were fine. So we checked the air pump...the thing was fused solid. I guess from sitting for over a year, the internal assembly had rusted. So we took it apart, and basically broke it loose...cleaned it up, and got the clutch moving smoothly again. Since it was locked up...it would seize the belt. When we restarted the car, there was still noise, but the belts weren't seizing and the car was idling.

The car was idling alright, but it really sounded like I had a streetport (which I do, a mild one). Pineapple Racing is the one that rebuilt the motor...I'm not sure if it was idling properly.

Here it is:


All of the lights went off, as well...no CEL, no warning symbols like I had earlier. It seems the air pump was the problem.

Another Vid, this is what it does when it actually runs:


You can see that it idles alright...it was okay...and then it just dies. Now it won't even start up at all hardly, because it just dies out...it seems like it's too rich. We tried disconnecting both the alternator and the air pump to see if that was the problem, but having both off didn't do squat...it still has the same problem. It's like it's getting too much fuel. Also, the alternator is HOT...and I mean...REALLY hot. Like cook an egg, while everything else is just normal operating temp.

This is a really good vid of what it does now:


It doesn't start up...it just does that. When we checked the fuel pressure, it showed 44PSI...the book says it should be anywhere from 36 to 38.6psi (I think). Is my fuel pressure regulator bad, ya think? Could that be what's causing it?

Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm stumped.

BuffDaddy915

I would check your plugs to see if they're fouled. Your fuel pressure regulator might be going causing it to give it too much gas and now you flooded the motor.


As for the bad idle..back to the basics...did you set your tps?

Also, the alt. should not get extremely hot. I can only go off what your description but it shouldn't be getting really hot while everything isn't. My question for that is, was it really hot when the airpump was stuck? Did it get really hot after resolving the airpump siezing?

ArchangelX

It's not a TPS thing, that's for sure. It's not reving up and down...it's just really lumpy. The second to last vid is what it sounds like when it idles. The plugs have been cleaned once...we'll check them again, and I'm going to do a compression check as well. I just got this engine back. The first engine only lasted 5,000 miles.

As far as the alternator was concerned, it simpy was hot...even after disconnecting the air pump, and letting the belt run free. It's like the alternator is working at max capacity or something. We're going to check out how much voltage is coming out...because you could burn yourself just by touching it.

Like I said earlier though...the fuel pressure was 44psi...the manual says the max is 38.6...I think I need to replace it. Maybe I should get a new alternator, new air pump, and a new fuel pressure regulator? Damn...that's alotta money.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Few simple ones - vacuum line to MAP sensor hooked up? You didn't try and put a check valve in the line to the MAP sensor (should have the stock filter in line)?

Plug wires are going to the proper plugs - no traililng/leading swapped, or trailing 1 and 2 swapped?

Good full-range vacuum source to fuel pressure regulator?

Dale

BuffDaddy915

Well I've had a lumpy idle and adjusted the tps which cleared up my lumpy idle. Thats the reason why I recommended it.

Well, as your stating the alt. sounds like it's possibly getting too much voltage.

Well dont start replacing things just yet. Gotta figure out why these things are doing this first.

Davin

iTrader: (14)

black smoke = fuel
white smoke = oil

this is going to sound stupid, but i think you may have your primaries and your secondary injectors mixed up. what injectors are you running?

Davin

iTrader: (14)

i cannot see the pictures because the stupid government blocks pictures from everything on thier computers because it could be **** OMG!!!!

BigAl65

It may help to disconnect the battery and reset the ECU......it may be trying to run in "limp mode".......

XxMerlinxX

iTrader: (2)

From the very first vid I thought you guys needed a new alternator. I couldn't hear very well over that racket, but I bet the alternator's making a high pitched whine as well. How's the battery holding up through all of this? I'm assuming it's holding a proper charge since none of your indicator lights are lit up anymore.

Montego

iTrader: (1)

just to clarify:

white smoke = coolant or condensation
blue smoke = oil

tiger18

iTrader: (1)

You do know that on a stadard ECU with the airpump not working or unplugged you will get a shitty idle?

Id also do a good unflooding including adding a little autotrans fluid,,,clean plugs (if the engine is just been rebuilt you may find that for the 10 mins ect the engine may run a little lumpy,,, until the seals start to seat better)

tiger18

iTrader: (1)

ohhh and without are pump running cars run pig rich on tick over (black smoke)

XxMerlinxX

iTrader: (2)

I thought you people invented the language...

ArchangelX

Alright, thanks guys...I really appreciate the help.

Buffdaddy, didn't mean to come off sounding harsh. To expand on the issue, we adjusted the TPS, and it didn't effect the idle at all, besides changing the rev source a bit...and it still doesn't explain why the car dies after awhile.

1. We checked the vacum line to the Boost Sensor (MAP)...we examined the check valve, made sure it was pointing in the right direction, and that it was clear and unclogged. No dice. We thought that might have been it since I know how bad it can get when that line isn't hooked up.

2. We checked the plugs...made sure the trailing and leading aren't mixed up, and examined the wires for corrosion. No dice...it was all hooked up properly.

3. I haven't checked the vacum to the pressure regulator, but we did check the hoses to make sure they're clear. There were some dirt dobbers that were a nuisance, and alotta the parts had been sitting for awhile...so we definetly had to clean them out. How do I check how much vacuum is going through it? Thanks.

4. I'm running the stock injectors, and I didn't switch them out at all...in fact, the injectors stayed in the fuel rail...the only ones that were removed were the secondaries...and I made sure to install the secondaries right. We checked the primaries with a stethoscope, and they were clicking...so they're working.

5. I'll try disconnecting the battery again...although we did disconnect it several times while working on the car...I'm not sure if we disconnected it at the end there.

6. The battery seems to be working fine. The high pitched whine was from the air pump being jammed shut...which was really causing problems...the belt was squeaking on the main shaft for the engine. We actually disconnected both the alternator and the air pump. Without either, there was no change in the problem. The last video is basically what's happening right now.

Hmm...if the air pump is the problem...that might be it. I can't work on it today, but tomorrow I'm going to clean the plugs again, check compression, replace the air pump and go from there. Do you guys think I should replace the fuel pressure regulator since it's pushing out 44psi? Maybe too much fuel is getting in there, and flooding it?

One thing...when we pulled the plugs the first time, the rear trailing and leading had a bit of oil on it...the oil metering pump is definitely working.

Thanks for the help guys...I really appreciate it.

deez-nuts-77

iTrader: (8)

stupid question time. since the car has been sitting for a year, did you put new gas in it?

REH

I'm working on the car with Mike (ArchangelX). We know we have several problems which doesn't help matters. The altenator could be hot because we put in a smaller battery just to get the car started, or the regulator is bad. When we first started the car it ran fine and idled smooth. At that time we were trying to figure out why the altenator belt was stopping (the horrible noise in the vids). Originally we thought the altenator was locking up (maybe bad bearings), but found out later the air pump was frozen. The car idles like the MAP sensor is disconnected. It burns very rich with black smoke coming out the tail pipe. Could we have too much fuel pressure? Another thing is I can turn the idle screw (the below the intake elbow) all the way in (closed position) and car idles at 800rpm. Maybe the ECU IS in limp mode, but why?

ArchangelX

Yeah...we filled it up with fresh gas, too.

Gadd

Did you really mean to say you had a check valve in the vacuum line to the MAP sensor? It should be a filter, and you should be able to blow through it both ways.

A disconnected air pump will cause a slightly ruffer idle, but not as bad as you have described

How are you checking the fuel pressure? 44 psi is to high.

Also a bad intake air and/or coolant temp sensor will make it run too rich.

ArchangelX

The filter/valve is the same black piece that was on the map sensor from the beginning, and it has the arrow pointing towards the engine.



We're checking the fuel pressure exactly as the manual describes, using the proper equipment. It seems like maybe the car is too rich...the manual says 38.6 is max.

Watch the second to last vid for how the idle is...that's basically how it idles...kinda rough, with a bit of engine shake...definetly not smooth.

The coolant temp sensor has been replaced for this build (the wire broke)...the intake air hasn't.

tiger18

iTrader: (1)

Trust me,,,,try an air pump,,,ill do a video of how my idles without an air pump,,,(its lumpy as hell)

ArchangelX

Alright, I'll try that...but that's not really what concerns me, as the fact that the car simply won't start anymore. I probably need to clean the plugs again...but something is going on with the fuel system. Grrrrrr...

Thanks for the help.

tiger18

iTrader: (1)

These cars can be very stupid,,,once the engine is flooded its flooded and no amount of cranking will make it work (its plugs out dry and full unflooding procedure,, then it will fire up) ,, when i rebuilt my engine i had many problems,, dont worry keep working on it.

ArchangelX

Yeah...maybe that's the deal. We've got a spare airpump I'm going to pick up tomorrow, we'll replace it, hook everything back up, check the grounds, clean the plugs, do the unflooding procedure, and have a go. I'll report back as soon as we're done!

Thanks!

tiger18

iTrader: (1)

Let me add quickly,,,the fuel pressure regualtor is supposed to mantain the fuel pressure at a constant pressure ( the only alternative to that is the vacuume hose that goes to the fuel pressure regulator and to the fuel pressure solenoid,,, which at some point in the engine running most alter the pressure,, ,, if your concerned about the fuel pressure try looking at the solenoid and piping associated with it)

ArchangelX

Has anyone removed their air pump completly? Is that a bad thing? We assumed it's there mainly for the catalytic converter, right?