FFE inline vs CJM parallel rail kits?
07-15-13, 05:41 PM
#1
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FFE inline vs CJM parallel rail kits?
I'm looking at the complete CJM kit which includes a FPD and premade lines. I actually don't like braided but they are preassembled. It also has the spacers, don't see the FPR holder included that I want but still pretty complete (and expensive).
CJM FPD Fuel System
I'm not sure if there were any conclusions on which is better, parallel or inline. All the fuel system upgrades i've seen have been with FPD delete.
Has anyone actually used or woked on both kits?
Parallel vs inline = personal preferance?
FPD benefit with high boost or delete?
CJM FPD Fuel System
I'm not sure if there were any conclusions on which is better, parallel or inline. All the fuel system upgrades i've seen have been with FPD delete.
Has anyone actually used or woked on both kits?
Parallel vs inline = personal preferance?
FPD benefit with high boost or delete?
07-15-13, 05:53 PM
#2
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What don't you like about braided (steel or nylon) lines?
Any FD owner that has parallel fuel lines has worked with both kinds, as the OEM fuel setup is inline.
The difference between them, really, is just that each rail gets it's own independent feed. You won't have the primaries pulling fuel from the lines before the secondaries can access it... In most situations inline is plenty, but if you're looking to run more power than going parallel is a good idea.
Most modified cars ditch the FPD without any ill effect.
Personally, on my car I ran 469whp with inline fuel lines/rails. That engine failed and I rebuild the engine (with help from some very smart, yet banned, people) at home and decided to completely redo my fuel system with all new lines and went parallel in fueling.
If you're doing it yourself, and you're not afraid to actually get your hands dirty than just make your own fuel lines, route them how you want them and don't hesitate to go parallel.
Also, I see absolutely NOTHING regarding FFE in your original post/question... If anything I think you could get all the answers you want (wrt parallel vs. inline) by just doing a quality search... However, quality wise... FFE is hands down the best fuel rail imo, and their customer service is absolutely top notch!
Any FD owner that has parallel fuel lines has worked with both kinds, as the OEM fuel setup is inline.
The difference between them, really, is just that each rail gets it's own independent feed. You won't have the primaries pulling fuel from the lines before the secondaries can access it... In most situations inline is plenty, but if you're looking to run more power than going parallel is a good idea.
Most modified cars ditch the FPD without any ill effect.
Personally, on my car I ran 469whp with inline fuel lines/rails. That engine failed and I rebuild the engine (with help from some very smart, yet banned, people) at home and decided to completely redo my fuel system with all new lines and went parallel in fueling.
If you're doing it yourself, and you're not afraid to actually get your hands dirty than just make your own fuel lines, route them how you want them and don't hesitate to go parallel.
Also, I see absolutely NOTHING regarding FFE in your original post/question... If anything I think you could get all the answers you want (wrt parallel vs. inline) by just doing a quality search... However, quality wise... FFE is hands down the best fuel rail imo, and their customer service is absolutely top notch!
07-15-13, 05:54 PM
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I went with parallel, FFE for both primary and secondary, the injector ends, Aeromotive A1000-6, block off plate from FFE (thin one), Bosch EV14 connectors, I made my own lines from nylon black braid and black end connectors. I think I paid around $950 for everything, rails, injectors, FPR, CJ FPR holder piece etc.
Rails 245 ish? on sale, EV14's $450, FPR $145 (with gauge), lines and connectors $100??
Rails 245 ish? on sale, EV14's $450, FPR $145 (with gauge), lines and connectors $100??
07-15-13, 07:42 PM
#4
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Fendamonkey:
I don't like braided cause they are a pain to assemble, can splinter and poke your fingers and damage rubber lines or other parts if they rub. I've always used silicone covered sheaths on any steel braided lines.
I understand the difference and read many threads but I have not read someone stating the dyno showed a difference switching to parallel. Maybe someone can chime in with real results.
I am redoing my fuel system and want to do it right once, not change it half way or after.
FFE's kit does not include everything CJM's does and most people would have ran it inline. I've only seen a few people run parralel, unless their just not posting it and I have it backwards. It wasn't a quality comparison and I know CJM has gone through several versions. I'm not knocking either kit but FEE is rails only and the CJM kit I posted a link to is complete bolt on ready to go kit. I like both kits. If I do the lines myself i'd go with FFE but the complete CJM kit is very tempting.
lookatme:
Thank you, that was one of the reply's I wanted to see. Would you have a pic of your setup? How did you split it, did you use a nitrous Y fitting?
I don't like braided cause they are a pain to assemble, can splinter and poke your fingers and damage rubber lines or other parts if they rub. I've always used silicone covered sheaths on any steel braided lines.
I understand the difference and read many threads but I have not read someone stating the dyno showed a difference switching to parallel. Maybe someone can chime in with real results.
I am redoing my fuel system and want to do it right once, not change it half way or after.
FFE's kit does not include everything CJM's does and most people would have ran it inline. I've only seen a few people run parralel, unless their just not posting it and I have it backwards. It wasn't a quality comparison and I know CJM has gone through several versions. I'm not knocking either kit but FEE is rails only and the CJM kit I posted a link to is complete bolt on ready to go kit. I like both kits. If I do the lines myself i'd go with FFE but the complete CJM kit is very tempting.
lookatme:
Thank you, that was one of the reply's I wanted to see. Would you have a pic of your setup? How did you split it, did you use a nitrous Y fitting?
07-15-13, 07:51 PM
#5
Aeromotive 13109-A1000 FPR has a built in damper so that will negate the CJM rails.
You can use push-lok fittings for your system if need be. I would use a clamp for extra security.
However, when it comes to inline(series) and parallel, it's mostly preference.
If you want to save some money on hose and fittings, go inline (series).
You can use push-lok fittings for your system if need be. I would use a clamp for extra security.
However, when it comes to inline(series) and parallel, it's mostly preference.
If you want to save some money on hose and fittings, go inline (series).
Last edited by JBF; 07-15-13 at 07:55 PM. Reason: incorrect part number
07-15-13, 08:43 PM
#6
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Thanks JBF:
So i'm looking at the FFE rails, inline with Fuelab or Aeromotive FPR either Earls prolite, Russel Proclassic or Techafx blacklight.
So i'm looking at the FFE rails, inline with Fuelab or Aeromotive FPR either Earls prolite, Russel Proclassic or Techafx blacklight.
07-15-13, 09:41 PM
#7
I have FFE rails and as others have said, they are top notch quality.
As far as series vs parallel, I've been a big proponent of series for a long time. Personally, I think if your pump is up to the task, you will have no problem running a series system to 500whp. I feel that beyond that, many things in the fuel system should begin to shift to a more thorough setup. I made 454whp on a series system with a single Aeromotive Stealth 340lph. I am shooting for 500+ this time around with dual Stealth pumps, and the same series configuration.
Another good thing with using series, FFE rails, and an aftermarket FPR is that you can mount the FPR to the secondary rail. No clearance issues and it's still easily accessible for adjustment.
I replied another member with details on my setup, so I will paste it here as well...
My setup....
FFE Primary and Secondary Rails
46mm bodied EV14 injectors - order from FFE, they will send the right size ID injectors
Aeromotive A1000 -6 Fuel Pressure Regulator
(6ft) FBN-06 Black Socketless hose. Part number FBN-06
(x6) -6 AN Male ORB - fits each rail end. The O-ring/ORB side faces in. Two will come with the FPR but they will be blue.
(x1) Spare -6 AN o-ring - for mating the FPR to the rail. Explained below
(x3) 90 degree -6 AN puslock fittings
(x1) 120 degree -6 AN puslock fitting - used for the bottom port of the FPR to clear the engine
(x1) -6 AN ORB plug - used for the unused port on the FPR. Comes with FPR
(x4) -6 AN Otiker clamps
(x1) Otiker clamp tool - can also use dikes to clamp fittings but the tool works better
I purchase all of my fittings from British American Transfer. You can review their options and fittings under Mocal. They have the widest selection of Black fittings, which I like. You must place your order by calling them. They are very helpful over the phone. You can compile part numbers, or just describe the fitting you need. Be sure to specify black, if you want it. THE BEST place to buy AN fittings period.
To mate the -6 line to the hard lines on the firewall side I simply slipped the hose over the hard line and used 4 worm gear hose clamps. 2 for each line. Some have used flare to AN fittings, but the majority of folks just double up on standard hose clamps with ZERO issues. I have run my system to 70psi on a constant basis with no problems.
As far as fitting the FPR to the secondary rail, it's easy. First, I used an Aeromotive A1000 FPR. It has three -6 AN ports.
Aeromotive | 13109 - A1000-6 Injected Bypass Regulator
To fit the FPR to the rail just use a -6 AN male to male. One side can be an ORB fitting and the other can be standard AN. Because of the rail's depth, put the standard AN male side into the rail, and use the straight cut ORB side for the FPR. You will need to put an O-ring on both sides. The ORB side will come with one. Just add another for the standard AN male side going into the rail.
The fitting looks like this...
Now, the other side will need to have a -6 AN ORB plug. The FPR will come with the plug. The bottom port of the FPR is the return. The FPR fits on the firewall side, but the bottom fitting comes comes close to the tranny bell housing. I used a 120 degree fitting to turn the line up, and clear everything.
As a side note, the Aeromotive A1000 -6 FPR only comes with a red top (part# 13109). However, they make another FPR that uses the identical top, but it comes in black (part# 13101). I called Aeromotive and they sent me a black one for a small fee. It took some talking but they eventually wrote it up as a warranty issue and charged me $30.
I hope this helps.
As far as series vs parallel, I've been a big proponent of series for a long time. Personally, I think if your pump is up to the task, you will have no problem running a series system to 500whp. I feel that beyond that, many things in the fuel system should begin to shift to a more thorough setup. I made 454whp on a series system with a single Aeromotive Stealth 340lph. I am shooting for 500+ this time around with dual Stealth pumps, and the same series configuration.
Another good thing with using series, FFE rails, and an aftermarket FPR is that you can mount the FPR to the secondary rail. No clearance issues and it's still easily accessible for adjustment.
I replied another member with details on my setup, so I will paste it here as well...
My setup....
FFE Primary and Secondary Rails
46mm bodied EV14 injectors - order from FFE, they will send the right size ID injectors
Aeromotive A1000 -6 Fuel Pressure Regulator
(6ft) FBN-06 Black Socketless hose. Part number FBN-06
(x6) -6 AN Male ORB - fits each rail end. The O-ring/ORB side faces in. Two will come with the FPR but they will be blue.
(x1) Spare -6 AN o-ring - for mating the FPR to the rail. Explained below
(x3) 90 degree -6 AN puslock fittings
(x1) 120 degree -6 AN puslock fitting - used for the bottom port of the FPR to clear the engine
(x1) -6 AN ORB plug - used for the unused port on the FPR. Comes with FPR
(x4) -6 AN Otiker clamps
(x1) Otiker clamp tool - can also use dikes to clamp fittings but the tool works better
I purchase all of my fittings from British American Transfer. You can review their options and fittings under Mocal. They have the widest selection of Black fittings, which I like. You must place your order by calling them. They are very helpful over the phone. You can compile part numbers, or just describe the fitting you need. Be sure to specify black, if you want it. THE BEST place to buy AN fittings period.
To mate the -6 line to the hard lines on the firewall side I simply slipped the hose over the hard line and used 4 worm gear hose clamps. 2 for each line. Some have used flare to AN fittings, but the majority of folks just double up on standard hose clamps with ZERO issues. I have run my system to 70psi on a constant basis with no problems.
As far as fitting the FPR to the secondary rail, it's easy. First, I used an Aeromotive A1000 FPR. It has three -6 AN ports.
Aeromotive | 13109 - A1000-6 Injected Bypass Regulator
To fit the FPR to the rail just use a -6 AN male to male. One side can be an ORB fitting and the other can be standard AN. Because of the rail's depth, put the standard AN male side into the rail, and use the straight cut ORB side for the FPR. You will need to put an O-ring on both sides. The ORB side will come with one. Just add another for the standard AN male side going into the rail.
The fitting looks like this...
Now, the other side will need to have a -6 AN ORB plug. The FPR will come with the plug. The bottom port of the FPR is the return. The FPR fits on the firewall side, but the bottom fitting comes comes close to the tranny bell housing. I used a 120 degree fitting to turn the line up, and clear everything.
As a side note, the Aeromotive A1000 -6 FPR only comes with a red top (part# 13109). However, they make another FPR that uses the identical top, but it comes in black (part# 13101). I called Aeromotive and they sent me a black one for a small fee. It took some talking but they eventually wrote it up as a warranty issue and charged me $30.
I hope this helps.
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07-16-13, 11:35 AM
#11
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ZE Power MX6 - Oh no, Fuelab was an easy choice since it was black but now I may have to consider the Aeromotive. The all poloshied one is pretty tight to but isn't the mini Fuelab smaller?
XLR8 - You
...bring back the old days when everyone shared and helped on this board. I did want to mount the FPR on the rail as you did oem style but in the picture it doesn't look like theres any clearance between it and the firewall. Are you using a banjo fitting there?
XLR8 - You
...bring back the old days when everyone shared and helped on this board. I did want to mount the FPR on the rail as you did oem style but in the picture it doesn't look like theres any clearance between it and the firewall. Are you using a banjo fitting there?
07-16-13, 02:22 PM
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I have some extra fuel fittings if you are interested in piecing together a kit. The fittings are blue or black (can't remember).
I used a Y fitting that was a generic piece off ebay. it is used in nitrous applications. The Y is right before the rails, and I run them in parallel to the rails, I then run the lines into the sides of the FPR, and run a line from the bottom of the FPR to the return fuel line.
It looks really nice IMO. I don't have any pictures of my fuel system.
I have a bunch of extra fittings and I can probably give you a list of all the things I used to make it work well. Probably save a lot of money making the lines yourself. shoot me a PM if interested.
I used Bosch EV14 injectors. I used 650CC primary and 2000CC secondary. I paid $411/shipped for them (I just looked). I tuned the car myself and the car runs great. idles smooth and silky and runs great up top. no hiccups. I do recommend sticking with 550CC injectors for primary and using 2000CC for secondary. you don't have to run any negative lag in your powerFC when doing it this way.
I used a Y fitting that was a generic piece off ebay. it is used in nitrous applications. The Y is right before the rails, and I run them in parallel to the rails, I then run the lines into the sides of the FPR, and run a line from the bottom of the FPR to the return fuel line.
It looks really nice IMO. I don't have any pictures of my fuel system.
I have a bunch of extra fittings and I can probably give you a list of all the things I used to make it work well. Probably save a lot of money making the lines yourself. shoot me a PM if interested.
I used Bosch EV14 injectors. I used 650CC primary and 2000CC secondary. I paid $411/shipped for them (I just looked). I tuned the car myself and the car runs great. idles smooth and silky and runs great up top. no hiccups. I do recommend sticking with 550CC injectors for primary and using 2000CC for secondary. you don't have to run any negative lag in your powerFC when doing it this way.
07-17-13, 04:39 PM
#14
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Well Aeromotive says splitting to parallel will monitor the pressure more acurately and the FPR should be as close to the rail(s) as possible. But that theory is with a piston engine that has all the same size injectors, is it not?
So i'm still stuck on the A1000/13109B in parallel or the Fuelab mini 53501 attached to the rail with the lines in series.
So i'm still stuck on the A1000/13109B in parallel or the Fuelab mini 53501 attached to the rail with the lines in series.
07-17-13, 06:05 PM
#15
ZE Power MX6 - Oh no, Fuelab was an easy choice since it was black but now I may have to consider the Aeromotive. The all poloshied one is pretty tight to but isn't the mini Fuelab smaller?
XLR8 - You ...bring back the old days when everyone shared and helped on this board. I did want to mount the FPR on the rail as you did oem style but in the picture it doesn't look like theres any clearance between it and the firewall. Are you using a banjo fitting there?
XLR8 - You
...bring back the old days when everyone shared and helped on this board. I did want to mount the FPR on the rail as you did oem style but in the picture it doesn't look like theres any clearance between it and the firewall. Are you using a banjo fitting there?.As far as the FPR fitting, there are no clearance issues with the firewall. Remember that this is a series configuration. The firewall side of the FPR output is plugged with an ORB -6 plug. The rail feeds the one input and the return is on the bottom, and thats it.
A low profile banjo bolt could possibly allow you to run a parallel setup in this configuration. FFE sells this very banjo bolt. It would be close, but looks like it could be doable.
07-17-13, 11:49 PM
#16
If your looking for a compact black FPR, also look at the Aeromotive 13129 which is what I'll be installing. More info ---> Titan Motorsports Blog » New Aeromotive Fuel Pressure Regulator
As for rail I just installed 1 secondary FFE rail for Xcessive LIM with 4 ID injectors. No primary rail. Quality of the rail is second to none. They also supplied me with the injectors, O-ringed custom adapters and rail fittings. Lines I will build myself the way I want. Stock hard lines have been flared for -5AN with -5 to -6 adapters.
As for rail I just installed 1 secondary FFE rail for Xcessive LIM with 4 ID injectors. No primary rail. Quality of the rail is second to none. They also supplied me with the injectors, O-ringed custom adapters and rail fittings. Lines I will build myself the way I want. Stock hard lines have been flared for -5AN with -5 to -6 adapters.
07-18-13, 12:09 AM
#17
I run FFE in parallel.
As far as Im concerned, the only argument series has is that it can work "good enough."
The more I look at it, the more parallel seems to be the ultimate setup.
Here's my setup. Secon pic is a little tight. Setup will change once I get a fuel cooler in.
As far as Im concerned, the only argument series has is that it can work "good enough."
The more I look at it, the more parallel seems to be the ultimate setup.
Here's my setup. Secon pic is a little tight. Setup will change once I get a fuel cooler in.
07-18-13, 07:07 AM
#18
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Ultimately, what was learned was that a large percentage of cars will not have issues. However, a large enough percentage does, so much that we will no longer ever develop rails that do not integrate them, as its not worth the hassle for the few unlucky consumer. I would predict that the majority of customers experiencing the issues would blame their part throttle drive ability problems on the quality of the tune, or feel it may be an acceptable "mystery" for their highly modified car. Because of this, many people will explain that a damper is not needed. I myself am guilty of such crime as my personal car was a prime example of the side effects, and I overlooked it for a couple years before realizing it. Live and learn, as the industry continues to refine their products the consumer will get their ultimate high performance vehicles that are closer and closer to driving with OEM quality.
07-19-13, 12:30 PM
#20
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PandazRX7 - I've seen the FPR before. It's skinnier but looks taller. The 4 injectors on the FFE / X LIM looks super clean!
07-25-13, 07:10 PM
#21
HELP! im having doubts on the installion of my FFE kit, do i need to get rid of the plastic things in the injector ports? I have attached a picture of what i'm talking about. by the way I have searched elsewhere for an answer but no luck.
Help is greatly appreciated.
Help is greatly appreciated.
07-27-13, 03:31 PM
#24
Sorry to be late to the party.. We've been short-handed and haven't been able to be as active on the forums as we would like.
We really like the Fuelab mini fpr. Its lightweight ball/spring assembly will help dampen pulsations better than the large heavy assemblies on most other aftermarket FPRs available. No, it's not an OEM damper but in most cases those are designed specifically for each system. A change in rails/injectors/lines can make a big difference in the dynamics of the system and how that damper is affecting it. Clearance-wise the 3-port is actually better as the two port has the outlet on the side rather than the bottom. The -6 plugs are ~$2.50 so not too much difference in price.
As you can see from above, everybody seems to have their own ideas on a fuel system.. We sold rails only originally to give a bit more flexibility to our customers. However we have started putting together full kits with all fittings/hose/adapters you would need. If you have any questions or want to put a custom system together let us know.
Thanks!
Aaron
fullfunctioneng@gmail.com
We really like the Fuelab mini fpr. Its lightweight ball/spring assembly will help dampen pulsations better than the large heavy assemblies on most other aftermarket FPRs available. No, it's not an OEM damper but in most cases those are designed specifically for each system. A change in rails/injectors/lines can make a big difference in the dynamics of the system and how that damper is affecting it. Clearance-wise the 3-port is actually better as the two port has the outlet on the side rather than the bottom. The -6 plugs are ~$2.50 so not too much difference in price.
As you can see from above, everybody seems to have their own ideas on a fuel system.. We sold rails only originally to give a bit more flexibility to our customers. However we have started putting together full kits with all fittings/hose/adapters you would need. If you have any questions or want to put a custom system together let us know.
Thanks!
Aaron
fullfunctioneng@gmail.com
07-30-13, 09:43 PM
#25
I'm having issues installing my fuel system. I'm using ID 725/2000 injectors, FFE rails and their corresponding bolts,spacers, and the blue inserts. When I try to install I push everything down with force and the FFE bolts and spacers do not seem to be long enough, I did remove the stock O-rings and atomizers and had no luck. As I try to install I make sure the injector inserts are in as far as they will go but still cant get it to work. I have attached a few crappy phone pics of my setup, am I overlooking something? wrong inserts? help is very much appreciated!
